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Quote (joseph1saverson @ June 10 2007,16:05) Who here answers with long tounge and short words when breath is not theres to speak?
a cast-iron aeroplane that can actually fly, mainly because the pilot doesn't seem to care if it does or not. Nevertheless, this heavier-than-air prose monstrosity, will be seen to be floating over the trees.”Quote (joseph1saverson @ June 10 2007,15:58) If I come in truth would you listen? 
???
Yep
Show us your cards? we need a royal flush, or anything close too!
Much appreciated, joseph1saversoncharity
Quote (joseph1saverson @ June 10 2007,15:46) can someone tell me who angels are!
Hey I'm under grace to Answer, may it abound!Much appreciated
Angels absent from body present in spirit?
Having suffered to subdued their will desiring Gods will
Also to hear the voice of the Holy One without being troubled?
One whom judgment is complete, risen incorruptible by the Son of Man?
1Cr 5:3
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,Hbr 13:1 ¶ Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
Book of Enoch11
[For who is there of all the children of men that is able to hear the voice of the Holy One without being troubled? And who can think His thoughts? and who is there that can behold all the works
12
of heaven? And how should there be one who could behold the heaven, and who is there that could understand the things of heaven and see a soul or a spirit and could tell thereof, or ascend and see
13
all their ends and think them or do like them? And who is there of all men that could know what is the breadth and the length of the earth, and to whom has been shown the measure of all of them?
14
Or is there any one who could discern the length of the heaven and how great is its height, and upon what it is founded, and how great is the number of the stars, and where all the luminaries rest?]
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him [be] glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.charity
Hi charity,
Spirit creatures.
They see God unlike men.
Matthew 18:10
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven
Some stand in His presence
Luke 1:19
“And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.”Some angels rebel[1/3]
Some can take the form of men.
Some are mistaken for men.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2007,20:35) Hi charity,
Spirit creatures.
They see God unlike men.
Matthew 18:10
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven
Some stand in His presence
Luke 1:19
“And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.”Some angels rebel[1/3]
Some can take the form of men.
Some are mistaken for men.
Can I entertain you as an Angel Nick?Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.And for what reasons are their Angels in heaven dependant for the body on earth not becoming deceived unto perishing?
Absent in body present in spirit, perhaps judged must be complete before any-body can be entertained as an Angel?
2Cr 5:6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Matthew 18:1Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven
1Cr 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,Hi charity,
Angels can bring false gospels and let those also be accursed.We shall become as the angels after resurrection into the new impersishable asexual bodies.
Sons of the resurrection following “the firstborn from the dead”.
But angels are not men but fellowservants of men.
Not to be worshipped but walked with.
They minister to the
sons of God.Angels hold the heavenly Mind,
Nick our Angels beholding the face of God in heaven,
they hold the mind of God that was created for us from the beginning ,
with faith and hope and suffering, we yet do not know what we shall become? in the Mind we have,
with hope towards the renewed Mind, Transformed from the earthly Man to the Man from heaven,
Matthew 18:1Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven2Cr 5:8 We are confident, , and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2Cr 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
This can’t happen till our Judgment is complete, and is only by searching our own hearts in all truth,
To even suffer together, being first made subject to vanity unwillingly. least we are sown in incorruption, not understanding that we have a mission to transform the earthly mind, (Die day by Day too)
To find ourselves full of vanity and leaning on our own Knowledge is a painful blessing that shall make the understanding heart, rejoice before God.
Sown in weakness first, can the power ascend down from heaven, raising up Sons of GodHi charity,
We must find the fountain before the rope of natural life breaks and the bucket falls to the bottom of the well.[ecc12]
Christ is the one with the key to the fountain springing up to eternal life in the Spirit of God.[jn7]
We can offer nothing but our earthenware vessels for that treasure to do God's work.[2cor4]
Such were before and are now the earthly sons of God.
Do not judge themQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2006,14:13) Hi,
I feel we have more to learn on these amazing beings . Sometimes they seem like men. Sometimes they are even called men as in Ez 10.2. Some have mistaken them for men as with the companions of Lot. Men have entertained them without realising they were angels.They are often said to wear white linen. Who can add?
One things for sure they seem to be very unique.Hi,
David says that Jesus is an angel, an archangel, the Archangel Michael.
This is a Jehovah's witness teaching.So look at Heb 1
” 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:”
So the author has set the scene by revealing the unique nature of the monogenes Son of God.
He continues by contrasting Christ with the lesser angels and archangels.” 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? “
Then he says that God wishes the angels to bow down in worship of His Son, the Christ.
” 6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. “
Again he contrasts Christ Jesus with how he is spoken of by his God compared with how God regards the angels. They are mere servants but His Son is shown by his works done by God through him and in the glory of his coming Kingdom.
“7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”
Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the seat of David in the power of God. But now the angels are shown as servants not only of God and His son but also as servants of the human sons of God.
” 13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
In case anyone has missed the importance of the visit of the Son of God to earth and ther equirement of God that men listen to him and obey him Heb 2 continues
” 1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
To no angel have these roles been committed by God.
Though Christ became a mere lowly man and thus lower than the angels for a time it is he who has found favour with God over them and it is he who has been given all authority in heaven and earth and not them. It is in him and because of him that many men will become sons of God.
” 5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.”
And Nick, believes angels literally have wings, and if I recall, this is their means of transport. Anyway…
Hebrews 1:5 – “For to what angel did God ever say, ‘Thou art my Son…’”
Hebrews 1:13 – “But to what angel has he ever said, ‘Sit at my right hand…’”
Hebrews 2:5 – “For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come…”
(Revised Standard Version)Since God said to Jesus ‘Thou art my Son’, ‘Sit at my right hand’ and subjected the coming world to him, then it would appear Jesus is not an angel, UNLESS JESUS IS AN ANGEL IN A WAY THAT DIFFERENTIATES HIM FROM OTHERS.
HEBREWS 1 AND 2 COULD JUST AS EASILY BE DIFFERENTIATING JESUS AS AN ANGEL FROM OTHER ANGELS AS IT COULD MEAN THAT HE IS NOT AN ANGEL.
EXAMPLE 1
To illustrate this point, look at Psalm 82:7, where Jehovah said to Israelite judges:
“Nevertheless, you shall die like men and fall like any prince.” (Revised Standard Version)
Does the expression “you shall die like men” mean that those judges were not men? Or does it mean that they were being differentiated from ordinary men? In a similar way, the Hebrew passages could be complying with this same idea, that is, that Jesus though an angel, is to be distinguished from “ordinary” angels.EXAMPLE 2
Another example might be brought forth to demonstrate this thinking. The account at Acts 23:9 reads:
“And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees’ part arose, and strove, saying we find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.” (KJV)
Some scholars understand that the “spirit” referred to here is a demon while the “angel” referred to one of the faithful holy angels. But does that mean that “angels” are not “spirits” since the passage reads “spirit or an angel”? No, the Scriptures are plain that angels are spirits. (See Psalm 104:1, 4; Hebrew 1:7; 1 Kings 22:20-22.)Notwithstanding that fact, angels are differentiated from spirits at Acts 23:9. Could this same principle apply with respect to the citations from Hebrews 1:5, 13 and 2:5 and the question of Jesus’ status as an angel?
Hi david,
Why would you seek a circuitous justification for your belief
unless, of course, your beliefs are more precious than the simple reading of God's Word?Hi David,
Cherubim have wings.
Ezekiel 1:8
Under their wings on their four sides were human hands. As for the faces and wings of the four of them,Ezekiel 10:5
Moreover, the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard as far as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty when He speaks.Exodus 25:20
” The cherubim shall have their wings spread upward, covering the mercy seat with their wings and facing one another; the faces of the cherubim are to be turned toward the mercy seat.Exodus 37:9
The cherubim had their wings spread upward, covering the mercy seat with their wings, with their faces toward each other; the faces of the cherubim were toward the mercy seat.2 Chronicles 3:11
The wingspan of the cherubim was twenty cubits; the wing of one, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and its other wing, of five cubits, touched the wing of the other cherub.Seraphim too
Isaiah 6:2
Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.God is invisible but does He have symbolic wings?
Psalm 17:8
Keep me as the apple of the eye;Hide me in the shadow of Your wingsPsalm 36:7
How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.Psalm 57:1
Be gracious to me, O God, be gracious to me,For my soul takes refuge in You;And in the shadow of Your wings I will take refugeUntil destruction passes by.Psalm 61:4
Let me dwell in Your tent forever;Let me take refuge in the shelter of Your wings. Selah.Psalm 63:7
For You have been my help,And in the shadow of Your wings I sing for joy.Psalm 91:4
He will cover you with His pinions,And under His wings you may seek refuge;His faithfulness is a shield and bulwark.Psalm 57:1
Be gracious to me, O God, be gracious to me,For my soul takes refuge in You;And in the shadow of Your wings I will take refuge Until destruction passes by.Remember, unlike most scripture, psalms are poetry and song so I think a little literary license is in order. I think the passage is to affect a feeling not to literally imply God has wings. Though I suppose he, as well as angels, being creatures of spirit, could take any form of their choosing and so the whole debate becomes pointless.
Hi cato,
Do you think spirit beings have no appointed form?
We do know that Satan can appear as an angel of light.
We know angels can appear as men and been given hospitality.
We know God Himself has manifested in many various ways among men.
But I still do not believe that invisible spirit beings are amorphous by their nature.
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