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Hi Nick
II THESSALONIANS 1:9 suggests there is an everlasting destruction (or death) for them.
MATTHEW 10:28 suggests that both body and soul can be destroyed in hell.
HEBREWS 2:14 tells us the Devil is going to be destroyed
I JOHN 3:8 tells us God is going to destroy the works of the Devil
I CORINTHIANS 15:26 tells us that even death shall be destroyedHi Malcolm,
2Thess 1.7f
“…The Lord Jesus will; be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution
to those who do not know God and
to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction,
away from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His power”Heb 2.14
“Therefore, since the children of God share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death he might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is the devil, and might free those , who , through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives”No mention of the death of Satan or angels in either place.
Yes death will be cast into the Lake of fire, but what does this have to do with angel mortality? The case looks very weak to me.
Hi,
Is not the origin of death only found in earthly creation?
What of the beings who had life before the creation shown in Genesis?
Is there
any scriptural evidence
anywhere that
anything of heaven is mortal?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2006,23:25) Hi Malcolm,
2Thess 1.7f
“…The Lord Jesus will; be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution
to those who do not know God and
to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction,
away from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His power”Heb 2.14
“Therefore, since the children of God share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death he might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is the devil, and might free those , who , through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives”No mention of the death of Satan there in either place.
Yes death will be cast into the Lake of fire, but what does this have to do with angel mortality? The case looks very weak to me.
For one thing you have to look at the definition of death.
The body is said to be dead when it is separated from the enlivening spirit given it of God.So can a spirit die? – to that I would have to suggest that if that spirit is of God, i.e. of the same life of God, a son of God in the true sense of the word son (offspring) then it can no more die than He can die, being made up essentially of eternality.
However are all spirits begotten of God? I beleive there are those that are created by God and those that are begotten of God.
Clearly for a son to be a son in the correct sense of the word and therefore a partaker of the life that is in God – they cannot be created in this state, they are begotten as sons.
However these begotten sons can then inhabit bodies physical or spiritual – according to what I read of the scriptures.But I also read that the Devil was a created being. (Eze 28:13-15) And a place was created in preparation for him and his angels. I also read that he is thrown into the lake of fire, which is a place of annihilation by all accounts.
If you look up the word in the Greek for which the KJV translates destroy in Heb 2:14 you will see it is consistent with this translation. This same word is used to refer to destruction of the body, and also to speak of the destruction of the soul and body in hell.
One has to then ask – is the body destroyed? does it die?
If so then the same word is being used here to describe the destruction of the soul and of spirit beings.If Hell is truly eternal in the sense of the word eternal then it could have no beginning or end. Hell was created for the Devil and his angels.
The word translated eternal is Aeon (probably spelt wrong) and can mean an epoch or age or can men eternity. And is used regularly in both senses.
I would suggest the context determines the meaning.Can a created spirit being die? – I beleive so.
For we are told not to fear him who can kill the body only but he that can destroy both body and soul (which is the actual being) in hell. I beleive that the soul is a being of spiritual nature (called the inner man in the scriptures) which when the body dies as a result of the spirit of life departing from it, then goes to one of two possible destinations.
In scripture we read of the souls that were in prison that Jesus came to preach to. You cannot preach to something if it has no conciousness and being.If Satan and his angels are not destroyed then where is the justice in destroying those who are deceived by them? It doesn't pan out right to me, things created are able to be destroyed, only God and His life is eternal – and the only way we can have eternal life is to have some spiritual origin from God.
Paul put it this way in his letter to the Galatians:But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased
to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,Also in order for Satan to be punished eternally in the literal sense, he would have to have eternal life to do so…
Yet scripture clearly tells us that only the sons of God inherit eternal life.Hi Malcolm,
Who are the US of Genesis 3.22?
“Then the Lord God said
'Behold the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”God is conversing but not with Adam or Eve.
Who is He speaking to?
Could it be His sons?
Are they sons of God of Job 1-2,38?
Do they have eternal life?Who was He speaking to when He said let us make man in our own image?
I only know of one other who is credited with having a hand in the creation with God.Hi Malcolm,
Yes but the sons of God were created before Genesis, and visible creation were they not?Well for a start I do not believe any true son of God is created, sons are born, and come from their father. Bodies are created for them to dwell in.
All life comes from God – God is the source of all life.
He made all things by Jesus Christ His only begotten son.
All life is either OF God, part of the family of God, or is created by Him through Jesus Christ.
God is the Father, Jesus is our elder brother.Hi,
I feel we have more to learn on these amazing beings . Sometimes they seem like men. Sometimes they are even called men as in Ez 10.2. Some have mistaken them for men as with the companions of Lot. Men have entertained them without realising they were angels.They are often said to wear white linen. Who can add?
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