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Quote (katjo @ Jan. 27 2010,14:31) Matthew 15;8 These people HONOR me with their lips, BUT THEIR HEARTS ARE FAR FROM ME, THEY WORSHIP(see that word worship) ME IN VAIN; their teachings are butr ules taught by men! katjo
Hi KAT,
Did you think Jesus quoted these words about himself, God's servant?
They are the words of his God about men relating to Himself.
You need to get to know the Son of God.To all those that believe that God the Father is not the Supreme Being. First we have to establish that nobody has seen him, except He that came from Heaven.
John 8:48 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God, only He has seen the Father.John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son , who is in the bosom of the Father , He hath declared Him.
John 5:37 And the Father who send Me has testified of Me, You have never heard His voice or seen His form.
1 Corinth. 8-5-8
And even if there are so called Gods ,whether in heaven or on earth,(as in deed there are many “Gods” and many Lords”
verse 6 But for us there is but ONE GOD, from whom all things came and for whom we live, and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ from whom all things come and through whom we live.This Scripture plainly points out for us(believers) there is only one Go the Father and Jesus is our only Lord.
You cannot make this Scripture say anything else without misquoting it. It is very straight forward and to the point. This amazing thing about this scripture is the fact that it is not isolated. The Bible is full of scriptures that teach us that the Father in the one true God and Jesus Christ is His Son.James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they head of every man is Christ, and the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.This verse is actually telling us that Jesus is not only the only true God. The only true God can only be the Father according to the above verse and Jesus Christ was send by the only True God who is the Father. Again we cannot make this scripture say anything else without twisting is clear. John said that this Truth is eternal life, so we shouldn't ignore or write this verse of if it conflicts with our current belief.
There are more Scriptures with explanation, but to much to be writing all out. I will give you more Scriptures.
1 Corinth. 11:3Now I want you to realize that the Head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all who is above all, and through us all, and in us all.
Romans 15:6 ..so that one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,09:44) LU, I may concur – but it still says “Him” not “Them”. Can it be explained why this is?
Does the sentence read right: “They worshiped Him [God the Father and Jesus Christ the Lamb?]”
Hi JustAskin,
You asked why it says “Him” and not “them.”I think that it doesn't say either one since it is not in the Greek in the Nestle. The words following “worshiped” were added (if the Nestle is the correct Greek)
The Nestle Greek makes more sense than the Textus Receptus does because the TR should say “them” because of the context where both are given worship.My opinion,
KathiTo all,
Can I ask? At what point does God change his mind (and God does not change his mind) and say that Mankind should Worship his Son after SHOUTING at us all through the ages saying that only HE (God Almighty) should be WORSHIPPED and Gods word is Truth for ever and ever.
Somehow I am even reluctant to “Believe” “And when he again brings his firstborn into the World he says:”Let all God's Angels WORSHIP him”
God Almighty says that only HE should be worshipped – and God never lies (So did someone else?)
Did Jesus say that people would worship him or that Angels would worship him?
Can some one find me a verse or passage to support this?
hi JA
the reason why some people see one thing in the letter and some see it differently,
it is the something with the books of moses the Jews saw as you see the letter,went Jesus without schooling told them they do not know God or his word.there is two ways to understand the scriptures ,first is to follow the LETTER,this means read and interpret what you read.
secondly is trough the SPIRIT this is the way of Christ and that is what he thought his disciples,
but this means to be totally committed to God in truth.this is only envy by true Christians.
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 29 2010,10:39) To all, Can I ask? At what point does God change his mind (and God does not change his mind) and say that Mankind should Worship his Son after SHOUTING at us all through the ages saying that only HE (God Almighty) should be WORSHIPPED and Gods word is Truth for ever and ever.
Somehow I am even reluctant to “Believe” “And when he again brings his firstborn into the World he says:”Let all God's Angels WORSHIP him”
God Almighty says that only HE should be worshipped – and God never lies (So did someone else?)
Did Jesus say that people would worship him or that Angels would worship him?
Can some one find me a verse or passage to support this?
JustAskin,This has been explained to you already.
God Himself tells the angels to worship Jesus. And in the OT technically, when God is saying to worship Him and not other gods, He is talking about the gods of others that surrounded Israel…His Son is not in the context.
Kathi
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 30 2010,00:06) Hi LU,
So you have two gods?
Nick,
One is God as a Son and one is God as a Father. The Son follows the Father. If I follow one, I follow the other too. There is only one that is God as a Father.
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2010,16:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 30 2010,00:06) Hi LU,
So you have two gods?
Nick,
One is God as a Son and one is God as a Father. The Son follows the Father. If I follow one, I follow the other too. There is only one that is God as a Father.
Kathi
Oh dear….Kathi,
Paul tells us that “for us” there is ONE God, the Father.
Other scriptures (I know of one passage in Hebrews only) may say that God, himself, calls the Son “God”….but because we don't find that as a theme throughout the bible, could it be possible that it's a human translation error? Or any number of other possibilities? The reason I think this is because throughout the tenor of the whole bible we are told two things about God. First, that God is the Father, and second, that he is One. There is no mention *throughout the bible* that Jesus is “God the Son”.
Love,
MandyLU,
Trini's say: “The Father is God,the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God – but these three are One”
Taking it from there, you say Worship the Father And you say Worship the Son.
Now 'these three are one'… What is missing?
LU,
When you read in the Scriptures: 'God and Christ Jesus', how do you read that?
Who is God in that sentence?
Also, 'He who sits on the throne and the Lamb.'
Who is it that is 'He who sits on the throne'
Is there any significance in that such a glorious revelation in Revelation should exclude the worship of the Lamb in Chapter 4:8-11, as well as exclusion of worship of the Holy Spirit throughout?
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 30 2010,02:55) hi LU
what are you looking for in your understanding?
Hi terraricca,
My ambition is to worship the Most High God and His Son in truth and to bring them glory.Kathi
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 30 2010,10:05) LU, Trini's say: “The Father is God,the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God – but these three are One”
Taking it from there, you say Worship the Father And you say Worship the Son.
Now 'these three are one'… What is missing?
JustAskin,
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and is as much a part of the Father as the Father's own mind. So for God (the Father) to be sitting on the throne I naturally understand that He is not without His very own personal spirit and mind. When you sit on a chair you don't leave your spirit in the other room…no! Where the Father is, His spirit is. Where you are, your spirit is too…right? Why would anyone mention that you and your spirit are sitting on the chair? If you are present then that includes your spirit within you as being present too, as well as your mind, your heart, etc.God the Father's spirit has a unique capability and that is to fill His Son and through His Son, He fills other believers. Through His spirit the Father instructs us, expresses His emotions to us and empowers us to carry out His will.
So, I worship the Father as God, our source of all that is good, and His Son as God, begotten of the Father, who bought us with His life. We truly can't have one without the other. The Father doesn't redeem us without the Son's part in that redemption process. We can't have the Son apart from the Father because apart from the Father, there would be nothing…no Son, no creation.
Kathi
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 30 2010,10:17) LU, When you read in the Scriptures: 'God and Christ Jesus', how do you read that?
Who is God in that sentence?
Also, 'He who sits on the throne and the Lamb.'
Who is it that is 'He who sits on the throne'
Is there any significance in that such a glorious revelation in Revelation should exclude the worship of the Lamb in Chapter 4:8-11, as well as exclusion of worship of the Holy Spirit throughout?
JustAskin,When I read “God and Christ Jesus” I understand that to mean the Father and the Son.
When I read “He who sits on the throne and the Lamb” I understand the Father and the Son.
In Rev. 4:8-11, the context is about the Most High God, the Father. The next chapter introduces the Lamb (the Son). They are both worshipped by the end of chapter 5. Like I just posted about the Holy Spirit previously, the Holy Spirit is right there within the Father and the Son.
Kathi
Kathi,
God is in you and you in Him.
You are true believer.
Your responses were all in keeping with each other and you expanded your answers with positive assertions.
God bless you.
I asked this question to Katjo and she refused to respond. Please can you respond so I am mislead by my own understanding:
What is Worship and how is does it differ from Honoring, Praising and Glorifying?
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 30 2010,13:19) Kathi, God is in you and you in Him.
You are true believer.
Your responses were all in keeping with each other and you expanded your answers with positive assertions.
God bless you.
I asked this question to Katjo and she refused to respond. Please can you respond so I am mislead by my own understanding:
What is Worship and how is does it differ from Honoring, Praising and Glorifying?
JustAskin,
Thank you for your kind words…Praise to the Father and to the Son for all that might be found good in me.You ask:
Quote What is Worship and how is does it differ from Honoring, Praising and Glorifying? Of course we could spend hours in a word study of each of those terms and perhaps that would be time well spent. I do believe that worship should be only directed towards the Father and the Son because it seems to me to acknowledge the highest of all beings with the deepest level of respect and adoration. Anything/anyone else should not be worshipped.
Honor and praise can be given in a more general way unless the intent is to honor and/or praise the person/persons as deity, then that would be reserved for the Father and the Son.
We can praise each other as a means of encouragement to love and good deeds. When we do that, of course, we are not praising each other as if they were deity.
One word translated as “glory” is Doxazo and is Strong's #1392 and here is what Studylight.org has listed as the meaning:
Quote to think, suppose, be of opinion
to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
to impart glory to something, render it excellent
to make renowned, render illustrious
to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledgedI hope this helps,
KathiLU,
I maintain my praise to you for desiring to worship the Father and understanding that the Holy Spirit is 'of' the Father, and for this reason 'it' is not include as one to be worshippied, praised, glorified, nor honored.
My pressing you is for the purpose of 'refinement' in terms of what God asks of you – of us.
There is no scriptural support that I can find for mankind to worshipping Jesus.
Even where an instruction 'is' given notice that it is directed solely at the angels:
'…let all the angels worship him'In Rev 4:8-11 we are shown 'He who sits on the throne first being 'praised', 'honored' and 'thanked' by the four living creatures, and whenever they do that, the twenty four elders (these are the exalted of mankind) fall down worship him. This 'worship' is qualified by them when they 'cast their crowns before the throne'.
In Rev 5:8 the four living creatures and the twenty four elders fall down before the Lamb…but they do not Worship him!
So, here no we have seen two different acts of deference:
1 – God and Jesus are both honored, glorified, praised, etc.
2 – God, alone, is Wirshipped
So now we go to Rev 5: 13-14: Even without the 'Him who lives for ever' the scenario still holds true: God and Jesus are praised (vs 13) but only God is Worshppied (vs14).
So, why is it important to make this fine distinction?
Because, if not, there is danger that Jesus becomes the focus of our worship because he was 'closer' to humankind and we 'feel' for his sacrifice and suffering for us.Remember, Jesus' reward from God is far greater than any praise, glory or honor from humankind.
Further, should Jesus accept worship from humankind taking away – Stealing – that which alone belongs to the God, then he would have failed but he does not (`Get thee behind me Satan for it is said 'Though shalt worship the Lord thy God and Him alone'`)
Beware … Satan is crouching at the door waiting to devour the unwary…
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