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Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 18 2010,15:52) Why would god take the kingdom back if Jesus is doing good.
If Jesus were doing bad then God WOULD take it back.Your text makes it look like GOD CANNOT – ha – you are the FOOL – always have been. What can God NOT DO but that he won't do WRONG!
WILL NOT – Not CANNOT!!!
…”BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire“. Matt 5:22WJ
WJ,
JESUS: Matt. 23:17, “Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?”But all the same…yes.
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 18 2010,16:27) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,07:45) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 19 2010,07:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,14:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,13:49)
Oh Keith,
You might not see it proven in scriptures to satisfy the one who has been blinded (I'm not implying anyone here), but it certainly can be backed by scriptures.
KathiReally? Where? Just give me ONE scripture that “unambiguously” is proof that Jesus the Word that was with God and was God had a beginning!
Just “One” scripture Kathi!
Blessings WJ
Keith,
Here, you can see that the Lord is a Son and that Son was in the beginning and His years will never come to an end. A being is not a son unless they had a beginning and they came from another of the same kind. Note that the Son did this. It doesn't say that He was just an “it” or the word when he did this. He is being referred to as the person that was in the beginning yet that person is a son. Children understand that son's come from someone else and are like the someone else but they are not the one that they are from.Quote Hebrews 1:8 but of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.
1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.
So God, your God, has anointed you over your companions with the oil of rejoicing.”
1:10 And,
“You founded the earth in the beginning, Lord,
and the heavens are the works of your hands.
1:11 They will perish, but you continue.
And they will all grow old like a garment,
1:12 and like a robe you will fold them up
and like a garment they will be changed,
but you are the same and your years will never run out.”
Remember that the verbs in v. 10 are in the active voice and the subject of the passage is “the Son.”
Kathi
You are so right. Jesus had a beginning and did not always existed. Therefore we know that He our Heavenly Father is above all and it is His Holy Spirit that dwells in all of us, and because of it, we can understand the things of God. And we have Scriptures to proof it too.
Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14
and by Jesus own words He said in
John 14:28 .. my Father is greater then I.
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with you before the World was. Here we see that He did existed before He became flesh along with John 1:1
Peace and Love Irene
But these Scriptures do show that Jesus had a beginning…
Co. 1:15 firstborn o all creation and Rev, firstborn, so He did not always existed.
Irene
IreneNo they don't! We have shown you numerous times how that firstborn does not always mean the first to be born!
Col 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:The Net says…
The Greek term πρωτότοκος (prwtotokos) could refer either to first in order of time, such as a first born child, or it could refer to one who is preeminent in rank. M. J. Harris, Colossians and Philemon (EGGNT), 43, expresses the meaning of the word well: “The ‘firstborn’ was either the eldest child in a family or a person of preeminent rank. The use of this term to describe the Davidic king in Ps 88:28 LXX (=Ps 89:27 EVV), ‘I will also appoint him my firstborn (πρωτότοκον), the most exalted of the kings of the earth,’ indicates that it can denote supremacy in rank as well as priority in time. But whether the πρωτό- element in the word denotes time, rank, or both, the significance of the -τοκος element as indicating birth or origin (from τίκτω, give birth to) has been virtually lost except in ref. to lit. birth.” In Col 1:15 the emphasis is on the priority of Jesus’ rank as over and above creation (cf. 1:16 and the “for” clause referring to Jesus as Creator).
So the word “Firstborn” is not at all proof that Jesus had a beginning!
In fact Col 1:18 says he is the “firstborn” from the dead. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead or did it mean that he was the first in rank and had the preeminence? The latter is more likely in the context of Col 1:14-18
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 18 2010,16:44) WJ,
JESUS: Matt. 23:17, “Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?”But all the same…yes.
Yes, but the Father committed all judgment to the Son!Do you make yourself equal to Jesus?
WJ
From Haydock's Commentary:
Ver. 15. The first[2] born of every creature. St. Chrysostom takes notice against the Arians, that the apostle calls Christ the first-begotten, or first-born, not the first created, because he was not created at all. And the sense is, that he was before all creatures, proceeding from all eternity from the Father; though some expound the words of Christ as man, and that he was greater in dignity. See Romans viii. 29. (Witham)
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2010,15:51) HI ALL need explanation;the scriptures says “no man can see God and live” is this true??
if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
any comments???
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Hi terraricca, Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man.
So Jesus a begotten god can?So Jesus is greater than the Father because he could come in the likeness of sinful flesh but the Father couldn't?
So the Father cannot take on a different form without being an Angel or a man?
Moses said he saw God's back side! Do you believe his report?
I thought that all things are possible with God?
Blessings WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 18 2010,16:52) WJ, Can you just let off – I'm apologising… and agreeing.
Why did you quote the scripture then?A “yes” does not sound like an oppology!
But Sure!
My oppology to you!
See how that works?
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,17:01) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2010,15:51) HI ALL need explanation;the scriptures says “no man can see God and live” is this true??
if it is true,how did he create man in the first placeif Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
any comments???
Hi terraricca,Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man. The Most High God cannot die. Those statements are true, imo. That is why a literal Son was begotten who is of the same nature as His Father, yet, the Son can do all of the above. They are two different persons within one Godhead.
Only the Most High God had no beginning.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,16:02) Hi terraricca, Explanation: The Most High God cannot be seen and the seer live. The Most High God cannot become a man.
So Jesus a begotten god can?So Jesus is greater than the Father because he could come in the likeness of sinful flesh but the Father couldn't?
So the Father cannot take on a different form without being an Angel or a man?
Moses said he saw God's back side! Do you believe his report?
I thought that all things are possible with God?
Blessings WJ
Keith,You asked:
Quote So Jesus a begotten god can? Well, Jesus is God as the Son of God, and He did…so, yes!
Quote So Jesus is greater than the Father because he could come in the likeness of sinful flesh but the Father couldn't? No, Jesus is not greater.
The Most High God cannot die…I don't believe creation could remain intact if He were dead for a second but that is just my opinion.
Could He appear as a man or an angel? Maybe but He wouldn't become a man or an angel. Appearance as something is different than actually becoming that something, in the spiritual realm, I would think.
Angels appear as men but aren't. So, I would think that God could appear as a man if that was necessary. Whether or not it was necessary, I don't know.
Yes, I believe that Moses saw God's back side. Whether or not it was God as the Son, or the Most High God, I would have to review it.
Kathi
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,08:23) Hi TT,
The promise to Abraham was fulfilled in Christ.
The kingdom will have no end.You can enjoy that inheritance too if you repent of this manmade trinity god and come to the Son of God.
Yes Nick,Therfore God cannot take the kingdom away from Christ. If He could and He would then Abraham gets the shaft. Do you dig?
thinker
WorshippingJesus said to Irene:
Quote The Greek term πρωτότοκος (prwtotokos) could refer either to first in order of time, such as a first born child, or it could refer to one who is preeminent in rank. Wj,
Exactly! Jacob was not the first in order to be born. But he acquired the birthright from Esau and became the firstborn son in rank.
This was Paul's whole point. He said that Jesus is the “firstborn” (by name) in order that He might have the SUPREMACY. So “firstborn” means “first in rank.”
The Hebrew Christians understood this!
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2010,08:30) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 18 2010,15:52) Why would god take the kingdom back if Jesus is doing good.
If Jesus were doing bad then God WOULD take it back.Your text makes it look like GOD CANNOT – ha – you are the FOOL – always have been. What can God NOT DO but that he won't do WRONG!
WILL NOT – Not CANNOT!!!
…”BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire“. Matt 5:22WJ
Keith,My first mark came from calling Gene “insane.” My second came from calling Constitutionalist a “pharisee.” Yet JA has said that I am a “dog led by a chain” and that I “crawled from under a rock.” Now he calls me a “fool.”
It seems like the anti-trinitarian moderators let anti-trinitarians get away with calling trinitarians names.
Jack
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,17:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2010,08:30) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 18 2010,15:52) Why would god take the kingdom back if Jesus is doing good.
If Jesus were doing bad then God WOULD take it back.Your text makes it look like GOD CANNOT – ha – you are the FOOL – always have been. What can God NOT DO but that he won't do WRONG!
WILL NOT – Not CANNOT!!!
…”BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire“. Matt 5:22WJ
Keith,My first mark came from calling Gene “insane.” My second came from calling Constitutionalist a “pharisee.” Yet JA has said that I am a “dog led by a chain” and that I “crawled from under a rock.” Now he calls me a “fool.”
It seems like the anti-trinitarian moderators let anti-trinitarians get away with calling trinitarians names.
Jack
JackI believe you are correct in your assesment!
I don't think it is t8 though!
Blessings WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2010,17:36) lu
YOU STILL DON'T ANSWER MY QUESTION AND LOGIC
Well, terraricca, I tried. Maybe you can tell me what you do not understand about my explanation.Kathi
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,09:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,08:23) Hi TT,
The promise to Abraham was fulfilled in Christ.
The kingdom will have no end.You can enjoy that inheritance too if you repent of this manmade trinity god and come to the Son of God.
Yes Nick,Therfore God cannot take the kingdom away from Christ. If He could and He would then Abraham gets the shaft. Do you dig?
thinker
Hi TT,
Your love of intellectual matters seems to prevent you finding WHO God is.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,19:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2010,17:36) lu
YOU STILL DON'T ANSWER MY QUESTION AND LOGIC
Well, terraricca, I tried. Maybe you can tell me what you do not understand about my explanation.Kathi
Terricca,Well?
lu
if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
TRY TO ANSWER ONE BY ONE AND TRY TO GIVE ME THEREASONS WHY OF YOUR ANSWER.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,15:10) lu if it is true,how did he create man in the first place
if Christ was God how come he could come to men and not kill them???
if Christ was God why would he call on someone else for help???
if he is not God then he obviously had a beginning,because only God as no beginning,right
TRY TO ANSWER ONE BY ONE AND TRY TO GIVE ME THEREASONS WHY OF YOUR ANSWER.
TGod came to Moses and it did not kill him!
He showed Moses his backside! Yet withheld his full Glory!
WJ
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