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Nick,
Jesus does not exalt Himself…listen to the Spirit and I believe that the Spirit of God will give you a heart of worship towards the Father and the Son.Hi LU,
Was it only because he was humble that he did not tell men to worship him?
I think we should rely more on his words than our derivations.
God is one and he[Jesus] is the Son of God.Does the toe worship the head?
Nick,
Why not rely on the many examples of worship that was given Him and He did not correct those that gave it?John 9:35-37
35 Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”
36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.”
38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.
39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
NASU
KathiNick,
I'm relying not only on Jesus' words but on His behavior too. His behavior was one of acceptance of worship and not refusal…learn from the whole story Nick. See the big picture here. Blind man gets healed by Jesus, the blind man sees, the blind man worships the one who healed him, Jesus receives that worship and says that the one who does not see may see. The man that worships is among the seeing.Many on here that do not worship the Son which is no different than the Pharisees. The Pharisees only worship the Father too.
Hi LU,
Really?
His words are spirit and life.Those carnal men who did so were not yet enlightened or yet one with him.
But you know more and are enlivened with the same Spirit he had so should you not be different?Kathi,
I agree, I believe that the “first born of all creation” comes from when the Father, having determined to create our corporeal reality, spoke it into existence. That is, from outside our reality He established the framework (namely time and 3D space) and at the point where our dimension first began to exist the essence of the Father manifested within this new dimension, not as a created item but the very nature of the Father, a Son truly begotten from the Father.The Son is everything, that those of us within this reality could ever perceive of the Father (when you've seen me you've seen the Father).
As to John 1:1 in the beginning was the word (He spoke into existence) and the word was with God (The manifestation existed independent of the Father) and the word was God (the Son was manifested from the Father)
3Through (key word) him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only (the Son is referred to in many places in scripture as “God” I believe him to be our “God” established so by the Father, He is the Father's agent, representative, obedient Son, etc., to all of creation) who is at the Father's side, has made him known to us.
Jesus never sought worship, He always pointed to the Father and said to worship Him, but neither did He refuse it. As the active “hand of God” I believe that we can worship the Father through Him, that worship of Jesus passes through His selfless Son and is worship of the Father. So be obedient and worship the Father but if at times we get caught up in what the Father has done through the Son and worship the Son then we glorify whom the Father has made “God” (a title) of this “reality”
My opinion – Wm
Hi ST,
Of course the worship you speak of is not the worship of true worshipers according to Jesus.
They worship the Father in spirit and truth. [Jn4]Seeking justifications for the traditional teachings of men is not our role.
LU,
What you are doing is not 'Worship' but yet you are doing the right thing.Please, just don't call it 'Worship'.
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 09 2010,18:46) LU, What does Jesus say concerning 'Worship' in John 4:20-24
JustAskin,We should worship God in spirit and truth. The Spirit leads me into worship of the Father and the Son as the Father and the Son but not as a trinity.
JustAskin, you have not shown me from scriptures that singing to the Lord and praising Him ISN'T an act of worship.
Kathi
LU,
It is always easy for someone to say 'show me where/how something IS NOT something'.
What this says is 'I will believe what I want to believe without any proof of my own, unless you can show me otherwise'
Of course, the Scriptures does not say that 'Singing and Dancing' is not Worship any more than it does not say that 'eating fish' is not worship.
What the Scriptures tells us though, is that Worship was performed before an Alter of sorts and there was usually some sort of Sacrifice involved.
Abraham went to Worship God on the mountain in Moriah, made an Alter, and offered his son, Isaac, as the Sacrifice (Gen 22:1-7)
Cain sinned because he did not offer a pleasing Sacrifice/Worship to God.
Aaron built an Alter before the Golden Calf on which he offered worship by way of burnt offerings to the Calf (Exodus 32:5-8)
In Revelation, the Elders Worship before the Throne of God by 'Casting their Crowns before the Throne'(Rev 4:10).
LU, all that I am saying is that the Term 'Worship' is not what you or most people think it is. It has lost it's meaning to man of today.
Is it enough, though, to just NOT Worship a false god or just not Worship falsely (with an ungenerous heart).
This latter is equivalent to the Jews not speaking God's name for fear of blaspheming…We don't worship for fear of performing it falsely.
Having said that, you can create an Alter in your heart and Worship God there but remember your Sacrifice, your 'burnt offering', your 'perfect fruit', your 'special one or thing'.
JustAskin,
So you are not able to show us scripturally that praising and singing are not acts of worship. Most people think that what they do in church involves corporate worship. During all the church services that I have been in, singing and praising God, whether it is the Father or the Son or both, is what the congregation does. There is also praying and learning and giving money and hearing testimonies and watching baptisms. All of it is an offering to God as some form of worship…yes, even sitting there and learning is an act of worship, imo. If you don't agree but can't show me scripture that says that those things are detestable to God then you just have a different opinion, not a right to determine what acts are worship and what acts are not. I will follow the Spirit as He leads me to worship and you follow the Spirit as He leads you but don't become the judge of others hearts and determine whether or not they are worshipping or not…or as to whether what they do is right or not. The Holy Spirit can do His job of leading and convicting very well without you taking over for Him. I mean this with good intentions towards you…I would imagine that it would be a relief for you to realize that the Holy Spirit has His job covered and the responsibility is not yours. Relax! Follow the Spirit as to how He leads you and don't worry about making a worship guide for the rest of us. It is not in your job description. We are to encourage one another and build each other up and stimulate one another to love and do good deeds.Kathi
Kathi,
Ok, I agree with you then.I cannot show a scripture saying that singing and dancing are not Worship.
But why did you use the word 'detestable'
I just said that what you ARE doing is good, pleasing to God. What I said was that [in my opinion] I did not class it as Worship in terms of hiw the scriptures described Worship.
I won't ask you to provide proof that Praising, Glorifying and Honoring God is a class of Worship.
HI ALL
THE WORSHIP APROVED BY CHRIST AND GOD IS NOT IN TEMPLES OR BUILDING MADE FROM MEN,AND CEREMONIALS MADE BY MEN,IT IS; Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.IT IS IN YOUR HEART AND IN TRUTH,STANDING BEFORE GOD .
Terra,
I agree.
I agree to the point that this will come about when God's temple is established as described in Revelation 21:3.
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