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Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 09 2009,05:30) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 09 2009,02:09) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 09 2009,19:38) I pray to the Father. 
The apostle John wanted us to pray to the Son of God (1 John 5:13-15).“God must be believed on in His own dispensation.”
thinker
Sorry, it does not say to pray to the son, I suggest you meditate on the whole chapter.
CThen you have no fellowship with the Father or the Son.
Communication to God is Prayer!
The scriptures command you to pray to Jesus!
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21
What name is given among men to be saved? You cannot be saved unless you call on the name of Jesus!
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Rom 10:13, 14
Who is your Savour? Who is it you call on and believe in and preach?
While they were stoning him, Stephen “PRAYED“, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Acts 7:59
I guess Stephen wasn't in the Spirit, eh?
Stephen prayed Jesus would receive his Spirit. Imagine that! That’s the same prayer Jesus prayed to the Father!
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all “that in every place CALL UPON the name of Jesus Christ our Lord”, both theirs and ours: 1 Cor 1:2
You cannot have fellowship with the Father apart from fellowship with the Son who is our “Great God and Savour” Jesus Christ. Tit 2:13
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and “truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ”. 1 John 1:3
So since prayer made to any being other than God would be “idolatry”, then that leaves the anti-Trinitarians with a conundrum doesn’t it? Not to mention the scriptures commands the angels to worship Jesus as well as the saints. Check it out, there is a lot of praising going on to the Father and the Son throughout the scriptures!
I think I will start a business selling “white out”!
Blessings WJ
Quote (katjo @ Oct. 09 2009,03:53) I think some people need to read a commentary bible that explains scripture in detail. You can get them at any Bible book store. I am looking at my pastors right now. It is called “The Complete Bible Commentary”- contributions from: Dobson, Feinberg,Hindson, Kroll, Wilmington and more. They explain every scripture in detail. In John 1;1 it says:IN THE BEGINNING. This opening statement is a repetition of the opening statement of the bible.(Gen 1:1) When time began, the word was already in existence. WAS THE WORD.This unique name for Christ (Gr logos) occurs only four times in the New Testament as a name.(1;1 14, 1 John 1;1 Rev.19:13 and is utilized only by John the apostle. Since words reveal the thoughts of one person to another, Christ as the Eternal word is a revelation as God to man. AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD. The words translated WITH GOD (Gr pros ton theon) could be rendered “face to face with God” Two important thoughts emerge from this statement. first the word is a diistinct person. Second, the word was enjoying communication and fellowship with another distinct person, God the father. AND THE WORD WAS GOD. Lest the reader assume that the Word as a distinct person is less than God, John concludes the verse with an emphatic statement that the Word was completely GOD. To lend the greatest possible emphasis to the importance of this statement, it literally reads “and God was the Word. The subject and predicate are reversed to underline the deity of the Word.THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD this verse simply summarizes the deep theological truths revealed in the first verse.(3) ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. This verse establishes Christ as the subject of creation and not the object of creation. He was the creator, not the created. One scholar translates the latter part of this verse as follows: 'and apart from him not a single thing that exits came into being” (William Hendriksen, The Gospel of St. John.p.71)
I thought so. You do not understand what the doctrine of the trinity is. Neither do you know who came up with it, do you?
First of all, I am going to surprise you, because in John 1:1 it says that the Word was with God and was God, and in verse 14, the Word became flesh.
Also I believe that Jesus preexisted before His Birth here on earth.
Col. 1:15-17″ He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation……
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that are in Earth….
verse17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
In verse 18 it says this:”And He is the Head of the Church, who is the the beginning, the firstborn of the dead, that in all things He will have preeminence. Preeminence means that He was the firstborn of all creation and the firstborn of the dead.
When John 1:1 says that He is God, IMO God is a title. Are we not the Adopted Sons of God? Jesus is however the firstborn of God and Gods Son. The angels too are the Sons of God. Just like our Family name is Smith ( not our real name) and our Sons are also Smith.
Now to the trinity doctrine.
The first Christian never even known of that doctrine. At that time most Christian died for their Faith, Millions died by the hands of the Romans.
And it was after almost three century of brutal and bloody persecution Constantine issued an edit permitting all Christian full freedom to practise their religion.
The time was A.D.313, in A.D. 321 Constantine issued an edit forbidding work on Sundays and making it a day of worship.
All was changed and even the Calander. We know go by the Roman C.
He also changed all Holy Days into all Pagan Holy Days like Christmas and Easter.
You will find all of Gods Holidays in Lev. 23 starting in verse 1.
In A.D.324 Constantine issued yet another edit and establishing Christianity as the official religion of his empire.
It will be called the Roman Universal Church. If you study Ancient History you will see what happened then.
I will go now into the trinity doctrine.
I am making another post because this on is getting to long, but I did want you to see where it all started.
IreneThe Trinity Doctrine is a man mad doctrine . It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian that first came up with it. Tertullian was born to Pagan Parents in A.D. 155 He was educated in philosoophy and in Greek and in Latin.
It is said that the trinity doctrine is His best achiemant tio Christianity. At that time the Church forbid anyone to read and have a Bible by the penalty of dead. The Romans had dozens of Gods. And that is why Christianty became so important. It was also easy to fool people because most people could not even read.
So when Constantine came on the scene it was easy for Him to establish the Church of His empire.
There is too much to go into all that Constatine did. I want to show you now, by Scriptures how wrong the trinity is.
Deut. 4:35 ” Unto Thee it is shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD, He is God and none beside Him. (Remember Jesus being in Heaven with the Father)LORD in capital Letters is always God the Father.Deut. “Hear O Israel the LORD our God is ONE LORD.
1 Corinth. 8:4 ” And there is none other God, but ONE.”
Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and in us all.
1Corinth. 11:3 The Head of man is Christ, the Head of a Woman is Man, and the Head of Christ is God.
That is why I have said that in Math. 15:9 is for all those that want to heed the Bibles Word and believe that the doctrine of the trinity is a man made doctrine. And that Scriptures says that ” In Vain do they worship Me, teaching the doctrine the commandment of men.
And Rev.18:4 says ” Come out of Her my people lest you will share in her sin, and lest you will receive of her plagues.
It is up to you what you do, however remember the warning given.
In closing I will say this, for me it was very hard to come out of the Catholic Church and I lost all of my so called friends. But I made more friends then I ever had, God seen to that. Also God's Holy Spirit has given me so much happiness because now I can go directley to the Throne of God. I have a personal Relationship which I never dreamed of in the Catholic Church. Thats all, my friend and good luck to you. Anoter thing just came to my mind, did you ever considered that if the Holy Spirit is a person, then He is Jesus Father. And we know that is not so.
Peace and Love IreneThe Holy Spirit is referred to in scripture as HE!!Read other post on trinity and one from heavennet I posted on page 53! I will post scripts. on holy spirit!
Romans 10;14 How than shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Irene
Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,11:53)
The Trinity Doctrine is a man mad doctrine . It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian that first came up with it. Tertullian was born to Pagan Parents in A.D. 155 He was educated in philosoophy and in Greek and in Latin.
Why do you keep teaching this lie.Septimus Florens Tertullian was not the first one to mention the word “Trinity” or hold that belief.
Give it up. You have been showed this more than once!
WJ
hi Kat,
And confused men have used such false logic to teach that the Spirit of God is another person from God.
Is your spirit another person from you?Hi WJ,
Jl 2 is OT so the Lord spoken of there is the Jewish substitution for YHWH in this promise made to Israel.Hi WJ,
So you cannot fellowship with your god but only with two, not three, so called PERSONS of your god?
Where is the value of having a god that is so irrelevant when it comes to prayer and worship?Best turn away from idolatry to the God of Jesus and the Jews.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,13:14) Hi WJ,
So you cannot fellowship with your god but only with two, not three, so called PERSONS of your god?
Where is the value of having a god that is so irrelevant when it comes to prayer and worship?Best turn away from idolatry to the God of Jesus and the Jews.
NHI thought you said this was a scripture sight where you discuss scriptures here.
Your statement doesn't have any scriptural support and you did not address the scriptures that I posted!
How about this one…?
If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any “fellowship with the Spirit“, if any tenderness and compassion, Phil 2:1
There it is, plain as the noise on your face! We have fellowship with the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit!
You do know what the word fellowship means don't you?
WJ
Hi WJ,
The fellowship is OF the Spirit.
If you knew the Spirit of God in which you can fellowship with the Father and the Son you would not suffer this confusion.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,17:16) Hi WJ,
The fellowship is OF the Spirit.
If you knew the Spirit of God in which you can fellowship with the Father and the Son you would not suffer this confusion.
NHThats not what the scripture says is it?
Here how about this one….
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and “the fellowship of the Holy Spirit” be with you all. 2 Cor 13:14
Here we see all three don't we?
WJ
Hi WJ,
Which translation is confusing you?
You really need to be blessed with the Spirit of Christ lest you be found none of his.
Working just from human intellect and greek logic is never going to enable you to grasp spiritual matters.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,17:22) Hi WJ,
Which translation is confusing you?
You really need to be blessed with the Spirit of Christ lest you be found none of his.
Working just from human intellect and greek logic is never going to enable you to grasp spiritual matters.
NHSpirit of Christ or Spirit of God? How many is there?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 10 2009,04:57) Irene Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,11:53)
The Trinity Doctrine is a man mad doctrine . It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian that first came up with it. Tertullian was born to Pagan Parents in A.D. 155 He was educated in philosoophy and in Greek and in Latin.
Why do you keep teaching this lie.Septimus Florens Tertullian was not the first one to mention the word “Trinity” or hold that belief.
Give it up. You have been showed this more than once!
WJ
Then prove to me that Tertulluian was not the first to do so? I am not a liar and I don't appricate you saying so.
It is in our Britannica Encyclopidia. If you don”t have one then go to a Libary or something. I would appreciate before You jump to a Conclusion if I lied or not. After all the year was only A.D 155-A.D. 230 when He died.
Also the Christians were percecuted and died by the millions at that time. Ancient History will tell you much.
I also found it interesting because our Son goes to a Baptist Church and the Pastor came to our House, and we duscussed the trinity. He gave Georg a Book on Tertullian.
What I wrote is a fact. I don't believe that the first Christians kept the trinity doctrine.
If you have prove, then show me it. Until then I will stand on what I wrote. It is in our Encyclopidia page 889. One more thing, when did you show me about this? Others have used that line too with somebody that I know. Face it the trinity is not of God.
IreneQuote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 09 2009,21:41) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 09 2009,02:26) Constitutionalist, that's equivocal, let me put it plainly. What is the basis for you fellowship with the Christ? Do you have a relationship with Yeshua? – what form does it take?
He is my Savior, Prophet, Prophet, King, and my Christ. And because of those things I am beggotten unto the One True God.
So you don't have a basis for fellowship?1 Corinthians 1:9 instructs us that we are called into fellowship (Gr. koinonia = communion) with the Son.
“God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship (Gr. koinonia) with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:9)
Can any antitrinitarian here please tell us how, in practice, they have koinonia with the Lord Yeshua?
Anyone?
This is from Heaven Net and I POSTED IT A FEW DAYS AGO BUT NO ONE WANTS TO COMMENT ABOUT IT! IM CURIOUS TO KNOW HOW YOU CAN DENY THIS! THis person quotes; I will be addressing the question of Jesus Christ's deity. This issue is not new, nor are the arguments surrounding it. However, one side is true, and one side is false. Either Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man, or he was only fully man. Those who believe that scripture is truly God's word must also believe that there are no contradictions in scripture. Any such contradiction would prove error in God's word, thus error in God. Such error is impossible; therefore any inerrancy found in scripture must be as a result from human error in interpretation. The fact that scripture is without contradictions will prove to be the biggest factor in proving which belief is true and which is false.
I have studied the deity of Christ from both a Trinitarian perspective as well as a non-Trinitarian perspective and have found that there is overwhelming evidence that scripture very clearly states that Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully human. There are countless ways in which to approach proving this issue with scripture, however to start off, I will begin with some basics. If needs be, I will continue the scriptural proof in more detail in another post so to keep this one as short as possible. I will begin with three contradictions that arise if Jesus Christ is NOT God.
1) Hebrews 1:10 “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
—According to verse 8, this is talking about the Son of God, not the Father. This verse tells us that Jesus Christ was not only pre-existent to his humanity on earth, but that He existed in the beginning even before creation and that by His hands He created the heavens and the earth. According to Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” This verse tells us that the only thing in existence in the beginning was God, and that God created the heavens and the earth. According to Genesis 1:1 we find that God was the only one in the beginning that that He created the heavens and the earth. According to Hebrews 1:10 we find that Jesus Christ was in the beginning and created the heavens and the earth. If Jesus Christ is not God, then these two verses contradict each other. The only way Hebrews 1:10 is true is if Jesus Christ is in fact God.
2) Exodus 34:14, –for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God— According to this verse, God is the only person who is to be worshiped. Jesus Christ is worshiped throughout the New Testament not only by humans (Matthew 2:2, Mark 5:6, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, etc.) but also by the angels (Hebrews 1:6). If Jesus Christ is not God, then there is a major contradiction in scripture. If Christ is not God then all the angels are guilty of idolatry as well as humans. More severely, if Christ is not God, then Jesus Christ himself is guilty of sin. If Christ is not God, then He sinned every time He accepted and encouraged those who worshiped Him. Also, in his confrontation with Satan in the desert, Jesus Christ commands Satan to “Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.” (Matthew 4:10). We also know that according to Philippians 2:10 “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;” This means that all will fall subject to, worship, give homage, and praise Jesus Christ, be it voluntary or involuntary. This includes Satan himself. If Jesus Christ is not God, then He is lying in his instruction to Satan. Jesus tells Satan to worship ONLY God, and then later Satan is found worshiping Jesus.
3) Finally, according to Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.” The word LORD in this verse is the Hebrew word YAHWEH, which means God. God is our only savior, and only God is able to forgive our sins and give us salvation. However, Jesus Christ not only forgave sins (Matthew 9:6) be He also is our savior (Titus 1:4, 2 Peter 1:11, etc.). If Jesus Christ is not God, then again there is contradiction in scripture. Furthermore, if Jesus Christ is not God, then we have no savior, and thus no salvation.
As established in Hebrews 1:10, the fact that Jesus Christ preexisted to his time on earth proves that He is in fact God. When scripture tells us that Christ “came in the flesh” it establishes that Christ has eternally existed and affirms that He is fully God. That is why 2 John 1:7 is so important: “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Those who do not acknowledge that Jesus Christ is fully God are false and are not from God. In fact, confessing that Jesus is God is how we test if someone is from God or from the adversary: 1 John 4:2-3 “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.”
I hope this helps anyone lost in falseness or confused about the truth. I will continue to pray for those who are lost that God opens their hearts so that they will know the truth of God and worship in that truth and in spirit.
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