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Why would Christians rely on the Mercy of God as Muslims do when you said Jesus already paid the price for you?
Hello Asana…
Quote Why would Christians rely on the Mercy of God as Muslims do when you said Jesus already paid the price for you? For me, this question is much to vague. Do you have an example of a Christian relying on the mercy of God… as Muslims do? I'm not really sure what you are asking.
I ask this because when you said: “… Jesus already paid the price for you”… that to me, is speaking of salvation only. Jesus paying the price for us is talking about salvation… NOT what happens in our daily lives… as I understand it.
And so personally, I don't rely on the Mercy of God for my salvation every day… because I'm already saved. If I rely on God's mercy everyday for my salvation, to me that means I have no faith in God's character or promises. And if I have no faith in God keeping me ultimately safe… then why would I have asked for mercy in the first place from a God that I obviously have no faith in to begin with?
Anyway… now that I am saved…. now what? How do I live? What attacks from satan (principalities, spirits, etc) or evil people will come against me? How will I live my daily life? Will I fight the good fight of faith? Will I stumble? Will I back slide? Will I make mistakes? Will I allow the cares of the world to choke my walk with Christ? Will I take my eyes off of God? Will I be tempted? How will I respond to and handle temptation? Etc… etc… etc.
On and on the list goes of all the things that can happen during my life after I've already been saved. It is for all these things that confront us as we live our daily lives that I ask for God's mercy and strength and love and patience and kindness to help me to live a victorious life that honors Him and glorifies Him.
After all, God never promises a Christian that their lives will be free from the problems of daily living once they become saved. Just look at the early Christians as testified in the NT and we can see that once we are saved, we will be ferociously attacked spiritually if we try to live the kind of life that glorifies God. Even Job in the OT, who was righteous in God's eyes, lost just about everything.
Anyway… I don't know if I answered your question… but my answer reflects how I understood your question.
Respectfully
FrancisJob didn't know about Jesus and Jesus asked for God's mercy himself, right?
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:20-22Why would Jesus have to have mercy on you?
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:11-13Why if you are “saved” do you need to work out your salvation?
But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:12-14“Shall Be saved”
How exactly are you saved? What are you saved from and how is it you will not need the Mercy of God when you know that not everyone who calls on Jesus Christ will be saved
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:20-22In-fact you can declare being saved all you want according to the scriptures a simple falling away and you are condemned
Hebrews 6:4-6 (English Standard Version)
4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.What would a Christian do in this case wishing to turn to God once again since they have held Jesus up to contempt?
Rely on the Mercy of God or be condemned after they became “saved” like you say you are?
Hi Francis,
book of fraud = quran book = 114(suras)
BD does NOT believe in (YHVH=63) the GOD of “The Bible”=63!
BD believes in satan's lies. (Gal.1:6-9 / 1Cor.4:3-4 / 2Cor.11:4)Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he
be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God,
and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified,
an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (John 6:53-57)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHello Asana…
You asked the question: “Why would Christians rely on the Mercy of God as Muslims do when you said Jesus already paid the price for you?
I wrote back and said that your question is much too vague for me. I then asked if you have an example of a Christian relying on the mercy of God… as Muslims do?
In your response to my question… you never answered my question… and you never tried to clear up what I felt was too vague. That is why I asked for an example… because I was hoping and example would at least help me to understand your question.
I don't understand what the phrase “… as Muslims do”, even means.
Your answer didn't clear anything up for me… and you never gave me an example. You don't even mention the word “Muslim” when I was looking for an example. And you never acknowledged if my answer showed that I even understood your question in the first place.
Sorry that I am not intelligent… but I can't continue until I understand what you are asking.
Respectfully
FrancisExample: Jesus himself prayed to God for assisstance, help and guidance and that he might “be saved”
Hello Asana…
I don't think Jesus asked to be saved in terms of his salvation. He was already perfect and so He didn't need to be saved… in the sense of salvation. None of us would need Jesus if we were all perfect to begin with. We would all be going to heaven.
But anyway I'm getting ahead of myself… I still don't understand how your phrase: “… as Muslims do”… relates to the example of Jesus you have given.
Also, you are now bringing up Jesus as an example when your opening question has nothing to do with Jesus. Instead you were asking Christians a question in your opening. You were not asking Jesus a question. And then you brought up “Muslims” in your opening for some reason.
I'm not getting the connection. Can we start over? Let me ask the same question I asked earlier:
“Do you have an example of a Christian relying on the Mercy of God… as Muslims do?”
Why and how and for what reason do Muslims rely on the Mercy of God? And can you give me an example of a Christian doing the same thing? Not Jesus… but Christians.
Respectfully
FrancisQuote (francis @ Aug. 13 2010,03:42) Hello Asana… I don't think Jesus asked to be saved in terms of his salvation. He was already perfect and so He didn't need to be saved… in the sense of salvation. None of us would need Jesus if we were all perfect to begin with. We would all be going to heaven.
But anyway I'm getting ahead of myself… I still don't understand how your phrase: “… as Muslims do”… relates to the example of Jesus you have given.
Also, you are now bringing up Jesus as an example when your opening question has nothing to do with Jesus. Instead you were asking Christians a question in your opening. You were not asking Jesus a question. And then you brought up “Muslims” in your opening for some reason.
I'm not getting the connection. Can we start over? Let me ask the same question I asked earlier:
“Do you have an example of a Christian relying on the Mercy of God… as Muslims do?”
Why and how and for what reason do Muslims rely on the Mercy of God? And can you give me an example of a Christian doing the same thing? Not Jesus… but Christians.
Respectfully
Francis
Matthew 6:9-13 (King James Version)9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen
Sura #1
1 In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2 Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3 Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4 Master of the Day of Judgment.
5 Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6 Show us the straight way,
7 The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.This is a pretty clear example
Hi BD:
Christians rely on the mercy of God, but no, not like Muslims do. You are asking God to have mercy on you based on your works. (Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.)
We are saved by Faith, that is we have believed God's testimony that he gave His Only Begotten Son to be the propitiation for our sins, and so, it is not because of any good works that we have done. Of course, when we are saved, our works demonstrate our faith. We do good works, obey His commandments that have come to us from God through Jesus out of our love for what he has done for us, but in obeying his commandments, we fall short of perfect obedience every day, and so, we rely on his mercy every day. We have not earned our salvation through perfect obedience to His Word. Our salvation is by “Faith so that it might be by grace” not of works lest any man should boast.
Quote Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Quote 1 John 5 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.[
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,08:32) Hi BD: Christians rely on the mercy of God, but no, not like Muslims do. You are asking God to have mercy on you based on your works. (Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.)
We are saved by Faith, that is we have believed God's testimony that he gave His Only Begotten Son to be the propitiation for our sins, and so, it is not because of any good works that we have done. Of course, when we are saved, our works demonstrate our faith. We do good works, obey His commandments that have come to us from God through Jesus out of our love for what he has done for us, but in obeying his commandments, we fall short of perfect obedience every day, and so, we rely on his mercy every day. We have not earned our salvation through perfect obedience to His Word. Our salvation is by “Faith so that it might be by grace” not of works lest any man should boast.
Quote Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Quote 1 John 5 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.[
Love in Christ,
Marty
No not because of our works but because we perform our acts/works according to our faith but even then we need Mercy and have Faith that God will save us despite our short comings but in Hebrews it says:Hebrews 6:4-6 (English Standard Version)
4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.This scripture says that if someone falls away/back slides then it is impossible for them to be restored to God, I do believe this was your concern regarding one of your children, right(I hope I am remembering correctly that it was you who said this)
I say that all people must ultimately rely on the Mercy of God despite what one thinks of the crucifixion
Francis,
Jesus was not perfect he became perfect through obedience and received THE SURE MERCIES of DAVID.
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrews 2:9-11Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:21-23Hi BD:
God is a merciful God and He will have mercy through His provision.
Quote John 14:2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The verse of scripture that you quote from Hebrews is speaking of someone who has confessed Jesus as their Lord and then begins practicing sin wilfully. That person can not come back and confess Jesus as Lord again. He would be crucifying the Lord afresh and putting him to an open shame. As Christians, when we commit a sin we repent, and we are forgiven. Our sins are washed away by the blood that was shed in our behalf, but if we do not repent when we sin, and continue to sin without repenting, there is no more sacrifice for our sins.
Quote Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,14:22) Hi BD: God is a merciful God and He will have mercy through His provision.
Quote John 14:2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The verse of scripture that you quote from Hebrews is speaking of someone who has confessed Jesus as their Lord and then begins practicing sin wilfully. That person can not come back and confess Jesus as Lord again. He would be crucifying the Lord afresh and putting him to an open shame. As Christians, when we commit a sin we repent, and we are forgiven. Our sins are washed away by the blood that was shed in our behalf, but if we do not repent when we sin, and continue to sin without repenting, there is no more sacrifice for our sins.
Quote Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Poor logic, what if a person willfully sins for 5 years and then decides to repent?Also you mentioned Provision but Jesus mentioned Many Mansions, God has many provisions and provides salvation to whom he will based upon his own Judgement and Mercy.
Noah was a provision, Moses was a provision, Jesus was a provision and so was Muhammad these are those who set the criterion sent down by God
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 13 2010,14:58) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,14:22) Hi BD: God is a merciful God and He will have mercy through His provision.
Quote John 14:2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The verse of scripture that you quote from Hebrews is speaking of someone who has confessed Jesus as their Lord and then begins practicing sin wilfully. That person can not come back and confess Jesus as Lord again. He would be crucifying the Lord afresh and putting him to an open shame. As Christians, when we commit a sin we repent, and we are forgiven. Our sins are washed away by the blood that was shed in our behalf, but if we do not repent when we sin, and continue to sin without repenting, there is no more sacrifice for our sins.
Quote Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Poor logic, what if a person willfully sins for 5 years and then decides to repent?Also you mentioned Provision but Jesus mentioned Many Mansions, God has many provisions and provides salvation to whom he will based upon his own Judgement and Mercy.
Noah was a provision, Moses was a provision, Jesus was a provision and so was Muhammad these are those who set the criterion sent down by God
Hi BD:God knows the circumstances as to why that person is backsliden, and it is possible for him to accept that person back if there is genuine repentance.
But BD, Jesus said “No Man” comes to the Father but by him. All those in the OT who have obeyed God are a part of the body of Christ, he is the propitiation for their sins as well as for all of those who come to God through him in the NT.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,15:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 13 2010,14:58) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,14:22) Hi BD: God is a merciful God and He will have mercy through His provision.
Quote John 14:2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The verse of scripture that you quote from Hebrews is speaking of someone who has confessed Jesus as their Lord and then begins practicing sin wilfully. That person can not come back and confess Jesus as Lord again. He would be crucifying the Lord afresh and putting him to an open shame. As Christians, when we commit a sin we repent, and we are forgiven. Our sins are washed away by the blood that was shed in our behalf, but if we do not repent when we sin, and continue to sin without repenting, there is no more sacrifice for our sins.
Quote Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Poor logic, what if a person willfully sins for 5 years and then decides to repent?Also you mentioned Provision but Jesus mentioned Many Mansions, God has many provisions and provides salvation to whom he will based upon his own Judgement and Mercy.
Noah was a provision, Moses was a provision, Jesus was a provision and so was Muhammad these are those who set the criterion sent down by God
Hi BD:God knows the circumstances as to why that person is backsliden, and it is possible for him to accept that person back if there is genuine repentance.
But BD, Jesus said “No Man” comes to the Father but by him. All those in the OT who have obeyed God are a part of the body of Christ, he is the propitiation for their sins as well as for all of those who come to God through him in the NT.
Love in Christ,
Marty
When Jesus said that no man comes to the Father except through him he was directly speaking to whom he was sent. Why do you think this statement was a statement meaning past, present and future?That would be like taking the statement that Jesus made “Do not go to the gentiles” and concluding it to mean never go to the gentiles
Also regarding the backsliden Paul disagrees he says IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to have repentance restored he didn't say hard or difficult he said IMPOSSIBLE
Hebrews 6:4-6 (English Standard Version)
4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.There is no wauy to get around that statement without diminishing Paul's context
Mercy:
1-the discretionary power of a judge to pardon someone or to mitigate punishment;
2- an act of kindness, compassion, or favor:
3- something that gives evidence of divine favor; blessing:I put it this way:
Mercy: NOT getting what you deserve. (Death-2nd; Eternal punishment)
Grace: Getting something we don't deserve. (Divine favor, daily)(Eternal Life – IN Jesus)
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
The Professor
The quesiton arose in my mind: God: Muslim God is the same God as the Christian God? So I quickly checked online to see what the differences are:
The Quran's Surah 17 111 says: “Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) domain.
Surah 4 171 says: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor, say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah and His Word. . .”
Surah 23 102, “Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy — they will attain salvation. . .”
Another important distinction is that throughout the Quran, the teachings are to destroy all others outside of Islam in the name of Allah.
Origin of Islam: According to Secular History
The origin of Islam can be traced back to 7th century Saudi Arabia. Islam is thus the youngest of the great world religions. The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D. after experiencing what he claimed to be an angelic visitation. Muhammad dictated the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, which Muslims believe to be the preexistent, perfect words of Allah.the Qur'an explicitly denies Jesus Christ's crucifixion (Sura 4:157-158)
Qur'an teaches that Ishmael was the child of promise (Sura 19:54; compare Sura 37:83-109 with Genesis 22:1-19)
Psa 5:9 There is nothing reliable in what they say; Their inward part is destruction itself. Their throat is an open grave; They flatter with their tongue.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
What did Abraham believe? That thru Isaac God's promises would come, not thru Ishmael. Beginning the age-long feud between the two.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tts 3:10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tts 3:11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 14 2010,00:11) The quesiton arose in my mind: God: Muslim God is the same God as the Christian God? So I quickly checked online to see what the differences are: The Quran's Surah 17 111 says: “Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) domain.
Surah 4 171 says: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor, say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah and His Word. . .”
Surah 23 102, “Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy — they will attain salvation. . .”
Another important distinction is that throughout the Quran, the teachings are to destroy all others outside of Islam in the name of Allah.
Origin of Islam: According to Secular History
The origin of Islam can be traced back to 7th century Saudi Arabia. Islam is thus the youngest of the great world religions. The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D. after experiencing what he claimed to be an angelic visitation. Muhammad dictated the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, which Muslims believe to be the preexistent, perfect words of Allah.the Qur'an explicitly denies Jesus Christ's crucifixion (Sura 4:157-158)
Qur'an teaches that Ishmael was the child of promise (Sura 19:54; compare Sura 37:83-109 with Genesis 22:1-19)
Psa 5:9 There is nothing reliable in what they say; Their inward part is destruction itself. Their throat is an open grave; They flatter with their tongue.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
What did Abraham believe? That thru Isaac God's promises would come, not thru Ishmael. Beginning the age-long feud between the two.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tts 3:10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tts 3:11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The Professor
Surah 39101 So We gave him the good news of a boy, possessing forbearance.
102 And when he attained to working with him, he said: O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.
103 So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead,
104 And We called out to him saying: O Ibrahim!
105 You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good:
106 Most surely this is a manifest trial.
107 And We ransomed him with a Feat sacrifice.You seem to be confused there is no mention that this child was Ishmael The Quran simply says that Ishmael was a prophet and God was with him just as it says in the Bible
Also God does not beget sons unless you consider Solomon the son of God and others who were called the son of God. To say on this day I have begotten thee is a metaphor obviously since the person is already Alive.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 14 2010,16:12) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 14 2010,00:11) The quesiton arose in my mind: God: Muslim God is the same God as the Christian God? So I quickly checked online to see what the differences are: The Quran's Surah 17 111 says: “Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) domain.
Surah 4 171 says: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor, say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah and His Word. . .”
Surah 23 102, “Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy — they will attain salvation. . .”
Another important distinction is that throughout the Quran, the teachings are to destroy all others outside of Islam in the name of Allah.
Origin of Islam: According to Secular History
The origin of Islam can be traced back to 7th century Saudi Arabia. Islam is thus the youngest of the great world religions. The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D. after experiencing what he claimed to be an angelic visitation. Muhammad dictated the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, which Muslims believe to be the preexistent, perfect words of Allah.the Qur'an explicitly denies Jesus Christ's crucifixion (Sura 4:157-158)
Qur'an teaches that Ishmael was the child of promise (Sura 19:54; compare Sura 37:83-109 with Genesis 22:1-19)
Psa 5:9 There is nothing reliable in what they say; Their inward part is destruction itself. Their throat is an open grave; They flatter with their tongue.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
What did Abraham believe? That thru Isaac God's promises would come, not thru Ishmael. Beginning the age-long feud between the two.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tts 3:10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tts 3:11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The Professor
Surah 39101 So We gave him the good news of a boy, possessing forbearance.
102 And when he attained to working with him, he said: O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.
103 So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead,
104 And We called out to him saying: O Ibrahim!
105 You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good:
106 Most surely this is a manifest trial.
107 And We ransomed him with a Feat sacrifice.You seem to be confused there is no mention that this child was Ishmael The Quran simply says that Ishmael was a prophet and God was with him just as it says in the Bible
Also God does not beget sons unless you consider Solomon the son of God and others who were called the son of God. To say on this day I have begotten thee is a metaphor obviously since the person is already Alive.
Hi Bod,Read Genesis 16 and 17 and you'll see God talking about Ishmael. I usually quote from the Bible or a dictionary. As for your books who knows? You'd know better.
You were right about there being many allegories. The OT is full of them. They speak of what is happening literally in the present tense for them and then they prophesy in the future with the same words. Too many passages are that way and can confuse many. The NT on the other hand (minus Revelation) has already occurred, but it is in Greek that people manipulate to say that the words are incorrectly translated or don't mean what it means. Thereby causing many debates and heated discussions.
God has begotten only one son, but you know that; all other sons were either created or adopted.
Your Allah apparently hasn't and won't have a son, thereby making your Allah different from my Elohim.
You can look it up: Qur'an teaches that Ishmael was the child of promise (Sura 19:54; compare Sura 37:83-109 with Genesis 22:1-19)(Copied from the internet article)
Yes, God's first act of creation was His son. Col 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of all creation….so you are right, he already existed when this verse was penned.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 14 2010,09:17) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 14 2010,16:12) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 14 2010,00:11) The quesiton arose in my mind: God: Muslim God is the same God as the Christian God? So I quickly checked online to see what the differences are: The Quran's Surah 17 111 says: “Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) domain.
Surah 4 171 says: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor, say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah and His Word. . .”
Surah 23 102, “Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy — they will attain salvation. . .”
Another important distinction is that throughout the Quran, the teachings are to destroy all others outside of Islam in the name of Allah.
Origin of Islam: According to Secular History
The origin of Islam can be traced back to 7th century Saudi Arabia. Islam is thus the youngest of the great world religions. The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D. after experiencing what he claimed to be an angelic visitation. Muhammad dictated the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, which Muslims believe to be the preexistent, perfect words of Allah.the Qur'an explicitly denies Jesus Christ's crucifixion (Sura 4:157-158)
Qur'an teaches that Ishmael was the child of promise (Sura 19:54; compare Sura 37:83-109 with Genesis 22:1-19)
Psa 5:9 There is nothing reliable in what they say; Their inward part is destruction itself. Their throat is an open grave; They flatter with their tongue.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
What did Abraham believe? That thru Isaac God's promises would come, not thru Ishmael. Beginning the age-long feud between the two.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tts 3:10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tts 3:11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The Professor
Surah 39101 So We gave him the good news of a boy, possessing forbearance.
102 And when he attained to working with him, he said: O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.
103 So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead,
104 And We called out to him saying: O Ibrahim!
105 You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good:
106 Most surely this is a manifest trial.
107 And We ransomed him with a Feat sacrifice.You seem to be confused there is no mention that this child was Ishmael The Quran simply says that Ishmael was a prophet and God was with him just as it says in the Bible
Also God does not beget sons unless you consider Solomon the son of God and others who were called the son of God. To say on this day I have begotten thee is a metaphor obviously since the person is already Alive.
Hi Bod,Read Genesis 16 and 17 and you'll see God talking about Ishmael. I usually quote from the Bible or a dictionary. As for your books who knows? You'd know better.
You were right about there being many allegories. The OT is full of them. They speak of what is happening literally in the present tense for them and then they prophesy in the future with the same words. Too many passages are that way and can confuse many. The NT on the other hand (minus Revelation) has already occurred, but it is in Greek that people manipulate to say that the words are incorrectly translated or don't mean what it means. Thereby causing many debates and heated discussions.
God has begotten only one son, but you know that; all other sons were either created or adopted.
Your Allah apparently hasn't and won't have a son, thereby making your Allah different from my Elohim.
You can look it up: Qur'an teaches that Ishmael was the child of promise (Sura 19:54; compare Sura 37:83-109 with Genesis 22:1-19)(Copied from the internet article)
Yes, God's first act of creation was His son. Col 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of all creation….so you are right, he already existed when this verse was penned.
The Professor
Surah 1954 Also mention in the Book (the story of) Isma'il: He was (strictly) true to what he promised, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.
This verse does not say he was the child of promise it says that Ismael was true to “his” promise, what was his promise? read below, do you not understand that he was also under the covenant which God made with Abraham and was circumcised the same day?
55 He used to enjoin on his people Prayer and Charity, and he was most acceptable in the sight of his Lord
You should never simply read articles they are geared towards directing your thought, had you simply read the surah and verse that was mentioned you would have known the truth of this matter.
second of all when you say first born of all creation what does that even mean does God give birth as humans do? These words are confusing you and I will prove it what does God say?
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exodus 4:21-23Now you have a problem here either Jesus is the firstborn or Israel is? Or the term means something completely different.
And if you know that the verse says “on this day I have begotten thee” at a time when Jesus was already existing then you will realize that God has not beget any son in the sense of procreation because as you rightly said God CREATED Jesus not PROCREATED/BEGAT like an animal or a man.
Far be it for God to need to beget when HE creates he simply says “BE” and it is “Gotten”
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