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Hi to you all
In respect to the “beast”, and the “image”, we have to be sure we separate the two; they are not the same.
The “beast” was the Roman Empire;
The “image” is the Roman Catholic Church, also referred to as the second beast, or the beast out of the earth.
Why is the Catholic Church called the image? Because;
The Pope has structured his Church after the Roman government;
The Pope is the Emperor;
the Cardinals are the Senators;
the Bishops are the Governors;
the Priest and Monks are the Mayer's.And what is the “mark” of the beast/Rome? the cross!
The cross was not a recent invention of the Romans; they have used it over 100 years before Christ to execute criminals and enemies of the state.
However, in the early fourth Century Constantine made it, more or less, the mark of Rome. Constantine was the Emperor of the east, and his brother in law, Maxentius, the Emperor of the west. Constantine desired to be Emperor over all of Rome, even if it meant to fight his own. He claimed he had a vision; he saw a red cross in the sky with the writing under it, “under this sign conquer”. He had red crosses painted on his soldiers shields and banners. And in 312 AD he marched against Maxentius. He won the battle, and gave credit to the God of this new religion, Christianity. He stopped all persecution against Christians the next year.
Whether officially or unofficially, the cross had become the mark of the beast/Rome. Even the Crusaders fought under that mark.
Constantine even went so far as to make Christianity the Empires religion, in 324 AD it became, the Roman Universal Church.
And where all do you see the mark of the beast/Rome today?My intention is not to offend any one, but to share my research and studies with all who have a desire for truth and understanding. I do know that understanding can only come from God;
1 Kings 4:29 “And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much…”
Because he ask for it.
And I have always followed James advice;Ja. 1:5 “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”
And the advice of Jesus himself;
Luke 11:13 “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children; how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”
Because, without the Holy Spirit we would understand nothing.
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
I pray you all do the same, God bless
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
The beast came out of the sea~water~. The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
The first beast [from the sea] came from a nation that was populated… peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. Rome was the world she had many different countries under her rule multitudes of nations who spoke different languages.
The second beast comes out of the earth. Why does the second beasts come from the earth and not the sea as the first beast. Because the second beast came from a non populated nation. What nation looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon? This nation is Christian looking like a lamb but speaks as a dragon.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he [second beast] had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.One horn represents government and the other represents religion. Just as Rome and the church were one beast.
Rev 13:12 And he [the 2nd beast] exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
The second beasts ecercises all the power of the first beast, Rome. What country would you say even comes close to having such power?
Rev 13:13 And he [the 2nd beast] doeth Great Wonders, so that he maketh fire come Down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Here we have a different beast that comes out of the earth (not the sea) this is not Rome! Rome was the first beast. This different second beast from the earth does Great Wonders, making fire come down from heaven. John describes fire coming down from heaven. John was a first century man who certainly never in his wildest dream saw anything like that before. The only thing John saw in heaven (the first heaven) were birds. No planes, rockets, or any man made thing in the first heaven.Here John describes what he saw as locusts:
Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
What do you think John saw? It certainly wasn't locusts!Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those Miracles which he [2nd beast] had power to do in the sight of the [first] beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth [man], that they should make an image to the [first] beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. This is the second horn on the beast the image is the religion or the RUC that was with Rome.
John saw the fire coming down from heaven as Miracles. In John's time the wheel was barely invented if you were John would you think fire coming down from the first heaven a miracle?
Rev 13:15 And he [Second Beast] had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Just as Rome gave power to the “church” [the RUC] so the second beast gives power to the image of the first beast. Just as Rome the first beast slaughtered those who would not accept the teachings (doctrines) of the Catholic church the second beast will do the same who do not worship the Image, the Roman Universal church.Rev 13:16 And he [ second beast now complete with the image of the first beast ] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
It was Rome through Constantine who gave the armies to the Church [it's image] to slaughter saints. It was Rome with the church that crusified our Lord.
The right hand is usually what someone does work with so it is the extention of the brain notice that the mark is also IN the forehead making it a belief of that person.
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the [second] beast, or the number of his name.
His mark or his name or the number of his name. In other words him, his beliefs, his system of things.
What system has changed the law and times of God to his law and time, Dan 7:25.
The second beast is a modern Christian nation who has the image of the first beast.
Hi kenrch, Ken I know you meant to post this reply under “the image of the beast”, that is were I responded.
The Mark of the Beast
By way of contrast the Mark of the Beast, the Signature of Satan, is the bogus weekly sabbath of Sunday and all those other heathen festivals which are currently posing as Christian holy days. (Christmas, Easter, Ash Wednesday, Hallowe'en etc.) These festivals are the offspring of paganism and true believers should have nothing to do with them. Like the sin of Jeroboam the son of Nebat they have been foolishly adopted by the church in place of the genuine Sabbaths of the Almighty. Yes, the churches of Christendom are doing exactly what the ancient Israel did under King Jeroboam; they are celebrating unsanctified days in preference to the appointed festivals of the Most High. Jeroboam's example was the type, the figure, the local illustration of a tragic reality that we are witnessing on a world scale in our day.
Just before the end of this age the Antichrist is scheduled to make a personal appearance on this earth. (2 Thess. 2:7-8, Rev. 17:8) With breathtaking miracles and lying wonders he will seduce the inhabitants of the world into worshipping Him. (Rev. 13:13-15) His hatred of truth will focus on Yahweh's Law and particularly on the Sabbath days in His law. Vainly will the Antichrist imagine that he is able to change and replace God's Sabbaths with days of his own choosing. The prophet Daniel has this to say about the Antichrist's activities:
Daniel 7:25 “And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of times.”What does “He will think to change times and laws.” mean? It means that this power will vainly imagine that he can change the commandments in God's law which deal with the element of time. That means he will seek to alter the Sabbath commandments; for they alone deal with the element of time. Oh what monstrous pride and self-delusion is here displayed; that anyone should dare to think he is able to change the laws of the Almighty God! Listen to what the Saviour has to say about the eternal nature of His Father's commandments:
Matthew 5:17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”The word “fulfil” means to do, to carry out, to perform, to execute, to comply with, to obey. And that is exactly what the Saviour did. He carried out and obeyed His Father's commandments to the letter and in doing so set us a perfect example. (John 15:10)
And you dear reader are now being given the opportunity to choose:
Between Yahweh's Sign and the Antichrist's Mark
Between the Truth and the Lie
Between the 7th day Sabbath of the 4th commandment and Sunday the pagan counterfeit.
Between the Feast Days of the God of Israel and the festivals of heathenism.
Between obedience and disobedience or sin (1 John 3:4)
The Bible says:
1 John 2:3 “And hereby, we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.”The Apostle James tells us that faith without obedience is a dead thing, a spiritual corpse! (James 2:17-20). Yahweh expects Him followers to demonstrate their faith in Him by endeavouring to keep His commandments. To remember the true Sabbath and Feast Days in God's Law is a vote for the Almighty; a proclamation to the community and the universe at large that Yahweh, the Father of our Lord and Saviour Yeshua the Messiah (Jesus Christ) is your God, your choice. It is standing up to be counted with God's people. It is accepting the Father's Name in your forehead, your mind. Sabbath observance is a declaration of faith in the Creator of the mighty universe – the One who is LORD of the Sabbath day. (John 1:1-3 & Matt 12:8)
How long you personally have before you make your choice and finalise your vote we cannot tell. But you may be sure the time is short and to delay is dangerous. Carefully consider your decision before you make it, for the issues at stake are momentous and the consequences of a wrong choice are too dreadful to even contemplate. Read Rev. 14:9-11 for your own safety.To help you further understand this matter, Stewarton Bible School has produced a lesson entitled The Mark of the Beast. It contains information of great importance, so read it today if you have not already done so.
If you decide to obey the Almighty you will be bountifully blessed; blessed and protected from the terrors of Abaddon's regime which is about to tear our civilisation apart. (Rev. 9:4) Yes, obedience will bring blessing.
Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have a right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates unto the city.”If in the other hand, you reject Yahweh's Sign (the sacred Sabbaths detailed in His law) then you will only have yourself to blame when Abbadon's reign of terror begins; for you can never honestly say that you didn't know. Stewarton Bible School has warned you of the danger of accepting the Mark of the Beast, the bogus sabbaths of Christendom. To help you decide your future course of action we will summarise this study and end this section.
SBS Calendar Booklet Index
——————————————————————————–
Elder: David B Loughran
Stewarton Bible School, Stewarton, Scotland
Updated: May 1999I found this and agree, so I posted it. It witnesses to the revelation I had this past spring about Tammuz that I posted previously.
Paul seems to disagree with you.
Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.The descision is not between a man made doctrine that demands men to come under the letter of the law which kills and the mark of the beast.
But the descision is to walk in the “Newness of Life” found in Christ through the Spirit.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.The choice is will I serve the “New Covenant” the Spirit of life in Christ, or will I serve the “Old Covenant” the letter that kills.
Gal 4:21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.Faith without works is dead, however faith that is not generated out of the Love of God as we walk in his spirit, the faith which works by Love, is not truly the faith of God, for God is Love and this is the principle thing, even the first commandment.
1 Cor 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.So the choice is ours.
Will we cast out the bondwoman and be children of the free woman, therfore becoming heir with New Jerusalem, the Mother of us all?
yer what happened here ?
Jacob loved Rachel, work was not Labor, and love is no burden? (two headed beast)
Gen 29:20 And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him [but] a few days, for the love he had to her.
Why do parents call deceit full things down on their children?
it was not leahs fault, but see laboured hard for that which was not availableLeah worked for Jacobs’s approval and Love, while Jacob loved her sister more, leah having need of Laboring, hoping it would bring his love?
Never the less Jacob is forgiven….
Gen 29:32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.The Battle set in array, the families of one Man, against each other, seed motive wants to have there mother as the queen, children a loyale to their own flesh, turn the clock back, In which womb did you reside, from your mother to grand mother till you arrive at the roots of the everlasting battle beginning, the Nations of Abraham, and it is written the seed remaineth in us, we shall stand, to be born again?
How is possible to obey the very first command, of one flesh joined two woman, children are deceived and thrown into no where land. And expected to be full of Love,
refusing God from the beginning?
God once destroyed the earth, judgment came with floods of water, for they disobeyed the first law, this time its fire a Lake that will consume.
And to love, and teach children Love, Failed, with their own hearts in confusion, they teach there children captivity, loving more the laws that latter came from Moses.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 28 2007,11:54) Paul seems to disagree with you. Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.The descision is not between a man made doctrine that demands men to come under the letter of the law which kills and the mark of the beast.
But the descision is to walk in the “Newness of Life” found in Christ through the Spirit.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.The choice is will I serve the “New Covenant” the Spirit of life in Christ, or will I serve the “Old Covenant” the letter that kills.
Gal 4:21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.Faith without works is dead, however faith that is not generated out of the Love of God as we walk in his spirit, the faith which works by Love, is not truly the faith of God, for God is Love and this is the principle thing, even the first commandment.
1 Cor 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.So the choice is ours.
Will we cast out the bondwoman and be children of the free woman, therfore becoming heir with New Jerusalem, the Mother of us all?
Which Law?Paul kept and served God's Law!
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. but with the flesh the law of sin.
WHAT?!
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
Those who are in the flesh cannot serve the law of God as Paul himself did.
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
What is God's Law? Could it be the ones HE WROTE?! The TEN?!
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the Torah is Set-apart, and the commands Set-apart, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the Torah is good, if a man use it legitimately;
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the Torah became our trainer to bring us to Messiah, in order to be declared right by belief.
If we sin, we know it because the Torah teaches us what sin is. Once we realize our sin, we confess it to Messiah. Y'shua Messiah heals us and says, “Go and SIN NO MORE!
This is a process kown as the refiners fire.
The more we learn from the Torah, the more FREE we are from sin and the works of lawlessness.
Now being FREE from sin, we can come to our Father YHWH our Elohim clean and in the white garment of the Wedding Feast, THROUGH Messiah's teachings. Messiah is our teacher, Messiah is YHWH's true representative, here to rescue us from the world!!!
The Torah
If you choose to continue in sin, you are sold under the Torah.
If you choose to follow in the footsteps of Y'shua, and do not sin, you will be set free!
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 29 2007,07:45) Rom 7:12 Wherefore the Torah is Set-apart, and the commands Set-apart, and just, and good. Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the Torah is good, if a man use it legitimately;
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the Torah became our trainer to bring us to Messiah, in order to be declared right by belief.
If we sin, we know it because the Torah teaches us what sin is. Once we realize our sin, we confess it to Messiah. Y'shua Messiah heals us and says, “Go and SIN NO MORE!
This is a process kown as the refiners fire.
The more we learn from the Torah, the more FREE we are from sin and the works of lawlessness.
Now being FREE from sin, we can come to our Father YHWH our Elohim clean and in the white garment of the Wedding Feast, THROUGH Messiah's teachings. Messiah is our teacher, Messiah is YHWH's true representative, here to rescue us from the world!!!
The Torah
Laurel and kenrch
Is there anthing in my previous post that gives you concern?
Is there anything in my post that is unscriptural?
Please take any one of my sentences and correct me or instruct me where needed.
Yeshua has come to free us from the law of sin and death, the dead letter of the word, by giving us the Spirit of life that quickens or writes the law in our hearts and has made us free.
Rom 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Paul makes a distinction between the law of sin and death and the law of the Spirit of life.
He also makes a distinction between those who mind the things of the Spirit and those who mind the things of the flesh.
Sarah>Spirit>law written on hearts>freewoman
Hagar>flesh>law written on stone>bondwoman
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.Please read it in context Laurel…
Gal 3:
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.You want to be under the “school master”, the law, go ahead.
You want to serve the law by the flesh, go ahead.
By faith I will walk in the Spirit and fulfill all the law.
Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.Laurel and kenrch, in both of your post there is no mention of the Spirit, only the keeping of the law.
How do you suppose to keep the law without the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.Who better can fulfill the law through us than Yeshua?
Only by his “life” in us. His Spirit guiding and leading and filling us. There is no law against that.
Gal 4:21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.Law verses Spirit. Free woman verses bondwoman.
Which one do you follow?
WJ,
You as well as most of “Christiandom” have a twisted perspective of YHWH's Torah vs. man's law. They are not one in the same. Man's law was inspired by men, where as YHWH's law was inspired by YHWH and given to His people Israel by Moses. It was confirmed by Y'shua Messiah!Y'shua said, “If you would have listened to Moses, you would know Me, because Moses spoke of Me.
So then we must ask, where in the Torah does Moses speak of Y'shua? The Torah does not include the Prophetic writings, it is basically refered to by Jews as our instructions. So the Torah is our instructions, which have been generically labeled as law.
Passover is part of the Torah, Unleavened Bread is part of the Torah, Tabernacles and Shavout (Pentecost) are written in the Torah, and all these things teach us about out Messiah Y'shua.
So WJ I say that you need to learn the difference between man's laws and YHWH's laws.
Laurel
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 29 2007,20:19) WJ,
You as well as most of “Christiandom” have a twisted perspective of YHWH's Torah vs. man's law. They are not one in the same. Man's law was inspired by men, where as YHWH's law was inspired by YHWH and given to His people Israel by Moses. It was confirmed by Y'shua Messiah!Y'shua said, “If you would have listened to Moses, you would know Me, because Moses spoke of Me.
So then we must ask, where in the Torah does Moses speak of Y'shua? The Torah does not include the Prophetic writings, it is basically refered to by Jews as our instructions. So the Torah is our instructions, which have been generically labeled as law.
Passover is part of the Torah, Unleavened Bread is part of the Torah, Tabernacles and Shavout (Pentecost) are written in the Torah, and all these things teach us about out Messiah Y'shua.
So WJ I say that you need to learn the difference between man's laws and YHWH's laws.
Laurel
laurelSo what are you saying that the NT scriptures are not inspired by God?
If they were writen purely by men without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how can you be sure any thing in the NT is true?
You still didnt show me where what I have said is untrue.
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 29 2007,20:19) If I were under the law, I would not be free, and I can assure you most certainly, I AM FREE!!!
laurelGood. Then you follow the free woman which is the mother of us all, and you are filled with the Holy Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit, “for against such there is no law”. Gal 5:23,24.
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 29 2007,07:48) If you choose to continue in sin, you are sold under the Torah. If you choose to follow in the footsteps of Y'shua, and do not sin, you will be set free!
Hi Laurel,
Do you not sin?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 30 2007,13:55) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 29 2007,07:48) If you choose to continue in sin, you are sold under the Torah. If you choose to follow in the footsteps of Y'shua, and do not sin, you will be set free!
Hi Laurel,
Do you not sin?
Not as far as I can tell. I know the commands and I do my best to guard them. I can say that the temptation to sin is far off. I think Satan is getting tired of trying me, and my Father in heaven protects me.Have I ever sinned? Of course! I sinned a lot before I knew I was sinning. It is not easy giving up sin at first, but it gets easier the farther I am away from it.
It is very important to me to have a face to fac e relationship with my Creator, and that is impossible if I sin on purpose!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2007,12:28) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 29 2007,20:19) WJ,
You as well as most of “Christiandom” have a twisted perspective of YHWH's Torah vs. man's law. They are not one in the same. Man's law was inspired by men, where as YHWH's law was inspired by YHWH and given to His people Israel by Moses. It was confirmed by Y'shua Messiah!Y'shua said, “If you would have listened to Moses, you would know Me, because Moses spoke of Me.
So then we must ask, where in the Torah does Moses speak of Y'shua? The Torah does not include the Prophetic writings, it is basically refered to by Jews as our instructions. So the Torah is our instructions, which have been generically labeled as law.
Passover is part of the Torah, Unleavened Bread is part of the Torah, Tabernacles and Shavout (Pentecost) are written in the Torah, and all these things teach us about out Messiah Y'shua.
So WJ I say that you need to learn the difference between man's laws and YHWH's laws.
Laurel
laurelSo what are you saying that the NT scriptures are not inspired by God?
If they were writen purely by men without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how can you be sure any thing in the NT is true?
You still didnt show me where what I have said is untrue.
WJ,
Why do you ask such foolish questions?You know that the Messianic writings were also inspired by YHWH, through Y'shua.
Abou where you say what is untrue… I just want you to see what is true, and the rest will go away by itself.
Here Nick is some Scripture to show us that is IS possible to keep His commands, and after all Y'shua did it His entire life, so now that I know Him, I know I can do it from here on out. There is no need for sin, it only kills!!!
Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.Here is Timothy telling us the same thing. He admits he was a sinner, but Y'shua showed him it is possible not to sin, he says we can all be this way.
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