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Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 28 2006,11:32) Quote These two scriptures relate to entirely different circumstances.
The Luke one is about those who are unsaved and respond to the salvation message.
The parable in Matthew is about those who are saved and equipped by the Spirit are sent into the world living amongst the unsaved.Well I would say that it is a matter of one being the word seed soul that God plants in men, the other being the Word in Spirit form that comes down from heaven.
ISAIAH 55:10-11
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.The rain quickens the seed even as the Spirit of God quickens the Word seed, but the same rain falls on the just and the unjust, bringing forth vessels both to honor and dishonor.
It takes the Word in Spirit form to quicken the Word in seed form.
John 5:38 tells us they did not have his word abiding in them – why? Because they they did not believe him who God sent.
They could not be quickened by him who God sent because there was no seed in them to be quickened.
John 8:37 tells us they sought to kill Jesus – why? Because the word had no place in them.
This is the general reaction of those who have no place for the word in them, they seek to kill the true seed.
John 8:43 Jesus asks them a rhetorical question:JOHN 8:43
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.What is he saying here?
To hear the word is to understand his speech, why could they not understand his speech? Because they could not hear his word.
So you cannot understand the word intellectually it must be spiritually quickened to you.
So why was it not spiritually quickened to them?
Because there was nothing in them to receive that word, no compatible seed to be quickened by the rain of God's Doctrine.That’s the way I see it…
Quote John 17.5
“Now Father, glorify me with the glory which I had WITH you before the world was”kai doxason ego su pater para seautou ho doxa hos eicon
AND NOW GLORIFY-ME YOU FATHER BESIDE YOURSELF THE GLORY WHICH I HADpro ho kosmos einai para su
BEFORE OF THE WORLDTO BE BESIDE YOUAnd now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee
Actually I think the old KJV is more accurate in translating this one…
So now, O my Father, glorify me with you, with the same glory which I had with you before the world was made.
(Peshitta – Lamsa translation)Quote This does not relate to a shared glory of a conjoint being but the individual glory of the Word of God, the Son of God, spoken of by JTB in Jn 1.14. “…and we saw HIS glory, the glory as of the only begotten from the Father..”
Well I don't see where that is explicitly stated Nick, that the glory he had with the Father before the world was not the glory of God Himself indwelling His son.
I am inclined to believe it was the glory of His Father Himself in him that he had back then, by which means God created all things.Quote The Word was WITH God in the beginning[Jn 1.1-2] and he had glory WITH GOD then, before the creation of earth. John and Peter and James saw it on the mountain. You will need more scriptural evidence that God indwelled the Word prior to conception this I am sorry Malcolm.
Well it is a matter of faith of course, but I see stated in both the OT and NT that God changes not, He is the same Yesterday and Today and Forever.
This being the case, that which is revealed in the middle of the book must be the same (in an earthly form of course) as that revealed at the beginning and the end, and must not change in between.
We see that in the beginning was Father and Son, we see this in the middle and we see it at the end – the Throne of God and the Lamb.
It is the Father indwelling the Son in all cases or in none.
Heb 1:1 tells us God who spoke in the OT (in types and shadows of the real) in prophets, has in these last days spoken to us in Son.We see Father and Son stated in the OT in types – God and the prophet.
The prophet spoke God's Word – was the anointed of God – was god to the people – His representative.
I look for patterns in the Word and see a seamless whole that declares the plan and purpose of God.I see God in Christ throughout.
Hi Malcolm,
Why would you differ with the explanations given by Jesus?In the verse from Isaiah 55
The seed for food or planting
is produced from the plants
caused by the growth of the plants
caused by the watering of those plants.The Water is not the seed.
Hi Nick
Jesus often mixed his metaphors.
Take Matt 7 for example
He warns us to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing
Then tells us we will know them by their fruits as thorns do not bear grapes
He switches from animal life to botanical life in one illustration so it is not always
According to human logic. These illustrations are all just that – illustrative using the natural and familiar in a symbolic way to show what the Kingdom of God is like – not identical to.What is the seed according to the record of scripture?
Seed is used more times than any other in the bible in reference to the lineage or offspring of mankind.
Relative to this seed is shown to obey the rules set out in Gen 1:11 namely that every seed brings forth according to kind.
Seed is indicative both of the offspring that express a certain strain of life and of the life itself.
Hence the Word of God shown as a seed – that which comes down from heaven (like the rain) to be sown upon the earth to give an increase. [Mt 13:19]
Also the seed is shown as the earthly expression of this life whose origins are heavenly.[Mt 13:23]In another parable the kingdom of Heaven is likened to a mustard seed, which is a seed that does not naturally hybridize. It is pure – will not mix with any other life.[Mt 13:31]
We find that the word as a seed coming from Heaven by God's voice (the word that goes forth out of his mouth) [Is 55:01-11] must be mixed with faith in them that hear if it is to have any effect [Heb 4:2]Jesus told the teachers and religious men that they had no place in them for his word. That for this reason they were unable to receive his word and were of their father the Devil doing his works as a result. [Jn 5:37-38] [Jn 5:42-43] [Jn 8:42-43] [Jn 8:43-45]
They were not able to do the work of God which is to believe on him who God had sent. [Jn 6:29]Jesus also said 'My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow me' [Jn 6:26]
He did not say they were God's sheep because they heard His voice.
They heard His voice because they were His sheep, that He knew (by His divine foreknowledge) and as a result they follow Him – because they are His sheep that hear Him.
You do not become a son of God by deciding to become one, you are given the power (authority) to be called the sons of God because you are proven to be them and therefore able to be born of God. Because the Word of God can be received in you, because it can be mixed with faith in you to produce the rebirth.JOHN 10:26-28
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.The reason they did not believe and could not receive him or his word is because they were not OF his sheep.
This is not the reason they were said to be not OF his sheep. It is because they are not OF his sheep that they did not believe.
The indicator of this? The sheep hear the voice of God, and He knows them, and they follow.
Three indicators: They are able to hear – they are foreknown of God – they are obedient having heard.
In Matthew 7 Jesus tells us not to judge a book by the cover, what appears to be a sheep on the outside, may be of a completely different nature on the inside. And we can determine this how? By their fruits – not gifts of the spirit but their ability to hear and obey the Word of God.Hi,
Jesus is the life.
All that has life came into being through him
So he has given life in himself before all other life and before all things.Hi,
There is no life outside of the Living God and His only begotten Son, except that which came from God through the Son.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2006,07:27) Hi,
Jesus is the life.
All that has life came into being through him
So he has given life in himself before all other life and before all things.Quote Jesus is the life. John 14:6 – amen
Quote All that has life came into being through him He came into being through himself?
Quote So he has given life in himself before all other life and before all things. Er not quite – as the Father has life in Himself so has He (the Father) given for the son to have life in himself.
So it is given to him of His Father – this ability.
When Jesus says:“I am the way and the truth and the life no one can come to the Father but by me”
The way to what?
The truth about what?
What life?THE FATHER – He is the way to God – He is the True God manifest in flesh – He is the Life of God shown to men.
That's what I think
Hi Malcolm,
Jesus does not have life.
He is life.” I AM the way, the truth and the LIFE”
” I AM the resurrection and the LIFE”
That life was given him by the Father.
That Life became his to give away.Jn 5.21
“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, EVEN SO THE SON ALSO GIVES LIFE TO WHOM HE WISHES”Men can only have that life in him.
Then they will be one in the Father in the Son.That is right and no man can come to Jesus to receive that life unless His Father draws him.
So those whom he wishes to give life to are those who God has given him.
We have oneness with him, his mind and will can be ours, his will was to do his Father's will.JOHN 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.Hi Adam Pastor,
In what way is Jesus Christ the life? Did all life come through the Son? Was the Word with God in the beginning?Hi Guys,
I believe Bullinger's Companion Bible illucidates the fact that the word that is translated
into English as “eternal” is from the Greek “anion” which means eon. This is a set period of time.That is why many Bibles translate the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 regarding of Christ as being “Eternal Father” and trinitarians are quick to jump on this as PROOF Jesus was the Father in human flesh.
The NIV does a little better by rendering Isaiah 9:6 as “Everlasting Father” but it still misses the mark of defining a specific period of time.Properly translated it should read that Christ is the “father of the coming eon or age”.
I believe Young's Literal Translation renders it this way and perhaps a few other Bibles
as well.So we need to see the proper translation of the word is not eternal which means
having no beginning or end but eon which means a set period of time.Our Lord is the father of the coming age just as Jubal was the father of all who play the harp,
Jabal was the father of all who live in tents, etc. in Genesis 4:20. In Hebrew it means the premiere forerunner of something. Christ will reign for 1,000 years before returning the Kingdom to his Father.
So this is a set period of time, the coming age of which Christ is the forerunner of. Just remember that most Bibles are edited by trinitarians so their views often shape how a scripture in translated.I also use two Sacred Name Bibles which are not edited by trinitarians. Not only do they put the original names and titles for God back in their proper place, but by doing so, makes it clear WHO the scriptures are talking about. The Father or the Son. Titles such as LORD, God, Lord, god can be confusing and blur the line between God and Christ. That's why those who translated the KJV and most other trinitarians love use to them!
Just my thoughts,
Semmy
Thanks for that seminarian,
And if Abraham is our father in that we are his children, then Christ is our everlasting father. This of course is very different to our Heavenly Father.
Christ is the image of God and because of that he will be like God. But some use this as proof that he is that God. But if their reasonings were correct then we could justify the false notion that we are Christ.
E.g.,
Colossians 2:8-10
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.Those who use this verse to prove that Jesus is God if they were consistent would have to read that we are Christ. Of course they know that the second notion is false, but cannot see that the first notion is false for the same reason.
In other words they take scriptures that show how like God, Christ is and that becomes the proof.
Yes good point Nick.
Yes Jesus is the way, truth, and life.
God created all things through him and for him. God created all things through his Son.
Similarly we are the branches and he is the vine. God tends to the vine. But without the vine there would be no branches.
In nature a vine grows and springs branches. But some teach that the branches came before the vine.
Yes Jesus is our life. Without him, we have no life.
Hi,
It is not hard to grasp that Jesus was before all things, even Abraham and David, when you realise he is the LIFE.Hi Is 1.18,
Jesus said “
“I am the way, the truth and the Life”He did not say
“I am who am”
This life, the Word of life, was with the Father in the beginning.
John saw the Life and testified about him.
1Jn 1 1f
“1What was (A)from the beginning, what we have (B)heard, what we have Âseen with our eyes, what we (D)have looked at and (E)touched with our hands, concerning the (F)Word of Life–
2and (G)the life was manifested, and we have (H)seen and (I)testify and proclaim to you (J)the eternal life, which was (K)with the Father and was (L)manifested to us–“The monogenes Son of God was the Life.
Hi,
All life came through the Son of God.Jn 1
” 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
Some falsely equate existence with life.
Matter exists but not all things have life.
A post has no life but the tree from which it was taken does.
A soul can exist after death without life.
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