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Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2006,04:18) Hi Malcolm,
Is the Word of God the Son of God?
Hi Malcolm,
Have you directly answered this question yet?Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,03:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2006,04:18) Hi Malcolm,
Is the Word of God the Son of God?
Hi Malcolm,
Have you directly answered this question yet?
Is God the Word – according to Jn 1 – Yes.
Is a son of the same substance and nature as his father – Yes.
Is the son the Word made flesh? – Yes.
Is the father of that son also Word – Yes.
Is the son his body? No – that was a form he took to be manifest as the Lamb of God.
Is this the son's body? – Yes
Is it flesh and blood? – Yes
Is it God's body – adopted by Him at Jordan? – Yes
Is God therefore flesh and blood? – Of course not – no more than the son is – the son is the Word son that was with the Father before the foundation of the world.Hi Malcolm,
“Scripture says
“the Word was God”
not
“God was the Word”
The Son is the image of God, the exact representation of His nature but not one being sharing the same divine substance. They both are divine but no image is still a part of what it reflects.God was not manifest as the Lamb of God. The lamb is not God but the Son of that God.
Again, please, show me that God is Word.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,11:39) Hi Malcolm,
“Scripture says
“the Word was God”
not
“God was the Word”
The Son is the image of God, the exact representation of His nature but not one being sharing the same divine substance. They both are divine but no image is still a part of what it reflects.God was not manifest as the Lamb of God. The lamb is not God but the Son of that God.
Again, please, show me that God is Word.
Hi NickJohn 1;1-2
THE Word was in the beginning, and that very Word was with God, and God was that Word.
The same was in the beginning with God.
(Peshitta – Lamsa Translation)Quote The Son is the image of God, the exact representation of His nature but not one being sharing the same divine substance. The image is substance, even as faith is a substance.
The image is real even as faith is real.
Jesus is the reality – yet as you say, an image – though identical as to substance and nature is not the original.
It would not be an image if it were. For one thing the original is eternal, the image is not – sons have beginnings.Hi Malcolm,
So you say when the WORD, as a being, appears in scripture it means God Himself. What do others think? Is this kosher?You are confusing an unusual textural form with a change of doctrine.
One scriptural translation does not make God into His Son.
The Word was WITH God and like the trinity doctrine you have ignored this repeated scriptural statement.
Jesus is the Word, a being of divine nature in origin.
A word is expressed from a being and does not remain that being.
He is the Word of God, meaning his origins are in that God .
He is from God, and his being derives from God alone.Jn 1.14f
” And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”God was not begotten
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,18:31) Hi Malcolm,
So you say when the WORD, as a being, appears in scripture it means God Himself. What do others think? Is this kosher?You are confusing an unusual textural form with a change of doctrine.
One scriptural traslation does not make God into His Son.
The Word was WITH God and like thre trinity doctrine you have ignored this repeated scriptural statement.
Jesus is the Word, a being of divine nature in origin.
A word is expressed from a being and does not remain that being.
He is the Word of God, meaning his origins are in that God .
He is from God, and his being derives from God alone.Jn 1.14f
” And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”God was not begotten
Well in my opinion God's thoughts are eternal, they are perfect, cannot fail.
A Word is the expression of a thought and the Greek word Logos means the Word containing the thought.
Now God is not a thought but a thinker of thoughts.
So when we use the term the Word of God it covers a range of possibilities
It can be speaking of the words of God to declare His general will and purpose in creation.
It can be speaking of His lifestream expressed – son(s) of God.
In either case it is unchanging, unfailing, and therefore a promise.
Even as a seed is a promise of life according to the pattern contained within (Gen 1:11)
So if someone is going to express themselves they are revealing what? Who they are?
Unless the person is veiling their true self then what you see expressed is them.
It will show you their innermost being – the very core of them – what lays in their mind to be.
When we say someone is true to themselves – it implies they have followed through on what they purposed to achieve in their minds to express what they are.
I cannot see how you can separate God from His Word – any more than you can separate God from His thoughts.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and as a man thinks in his heart so he is.
If what God expressed, which was a son, which was with Him before all else – is Word (and we know he is) and the Word expressed is what? Light – Life – Love of God expressed. Then God also is Light – which He is.
Is Life, is Love and is Word.
IMHOQuote (malcolm ferris @ May 27 2006,03:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,18:31) Hi Malcolm,
So you say when the WORD, as a being, appears in scripture it means God Himself. What do others think? Is this kosher?You are confusing an unusual textural form with a change of doctrine.
One scriptural traslation does not make God into His Son.
The Word was WITH God and like thre trinity doctrine you have ignored this repeated scriptural statement.
Jesus is the Word, a being of divine nature in origin.
A word is expressed from a being and does not remain that being.
He is the Word of God, meaning his origins are in that God .
He is from God, and his being derives from God alone.Jn 1.14f
” And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”God was not begotten
Well in my opinion God's thoughts are eternal, they are perfect, cannot fail.
A Word is the expression of a thought and the Greek word Logos means the Word containing the thought.
Now God is not a thought but a thinker of thoughts.
So when we use the term the Word of God it covers a range of possibilities
It can be speaking of the words of God to declare His general will and purpose in creation.
It can be speaking of His lifestream expressed – son(s) of God.
In either case it is unchanging, unfailing, and therefore a promise.
Even as a seed is a promise of life according to the pattern contained within (Gen 1:11)
So if someone is going to express themselves they are revealing what? Who they are?
Unless the person is veiling their true self then what you see expressed is them.
It will show you their innermost being – the very core of them – what lays in their mind to be.
When we say someone is true to themselves – it implies they have followed through on what they purposed to achieve in their minds to express what they are.
I cannot see how you can separate God from His Word – any more than you can separate God from His thoughts.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and as a man thinks in his heart so he is.
If what God expressed, which was a son, which was with Him before all else – is Word (and we know he is) and the Word expressed is what? Light – Life – Love of God expressed. Then God also is Light – which He is.
Is Life, is Love and is Word.
IMHO
Hi Malcolm.
God is not
thought
but
spirit.Even thought is a product of the being and not itself that being.
So if the word contains the thought it does not state that God is the Word, but plainly declares that He is not.
The Word, obedient to the expressed thought of God, is sent out from God to do His will.Hi Malcolm,
Is 55.8
'For my thoughts are not your thoughts”
Are we our thoughts?
Neither is God.v11
“So will My Word be WHICH GOES FORTH FROM MY MOUTH; it will not return to Me empty..”Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2006,09:21) Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 27 2006,03:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,18:31) Hi Malcolm,
So you say when the WORD, as a being, appears in scripture it means God Himself. What do others think? Is this kosher?You are confusing an unusual textural form with a change of doctrine.
One scriptural traslation does not make God into His Son.
The Word was WITH God and like thre trinity doctrine you have ignored this repeated scriptural statement.
Jesus is the Word, a being of divine nature in origin.
A word is expressed from a being and does not remain that being.
He is the Word of God, meaning his origins are in that God .
He is from God, and his being derives from God alone.Jn 1.14f
” And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”God was not begotten
Well in my opinion God's thoughts are eternal, they are perfect, cannot fail.
A Word is the expression of a thought and the Greek word Logos means the Word containing the thought.
Now God is not a thought but a thinker of thoughts.
So when we use the term the Word of God it covers a range of possibilities
It can be speaking of the words of God to declare His general will and purpose in creation.
It can be speaking of His lifestream expressed – son(s) of God.
In either case it is unchanging, unfailing, and therefore a promise.
Even as a seed is a promise of life according to the pattern contained within (Gen 1:11)
So if someone is going to express themselves they are revealing what? Who they are?
Unless the person is veiling their true self then what you see expressed is them.
It will show you their innermost being – the very core of them – what lays in their mind to be.
When we say someone is true to themselves – it implies they have followed through on what they purposed to achieve in their minds to express what they are.
I cannot see how you can separate God from His Word – any more than you can separate God from His thoughts.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and as a man thinks in his heart so he is.
If what God expressed, which was a son, which was with Him before all else – is Word (and we know he is) and the Word expressed is what? Light – Life – Love of God expressed. Then God also is Light – which He is.
Is Life, is Love and is Word.
IMHO
Hi Malcolm.
God is not
thought
but
spirit.Even thought is a product of the being and not itself that being.
So if the word contains the thought it does not state that God is the Word, but plainly declares that He is not.
The Word, obedient to the expressed thought of God, is sent out from God to do His will.
Hi NickTrue God in fact is unfathomable to us unless He gives us some way to fathom Him.
He is infinite we are finite.
He is invisible we dwell in a visible domain.
He is light yet we do not see that Light unless it strikes something or is reflected or diffracted off something.
Unless He limits or confines Himself, He remains inaccessible to us.
Now it is true God is not a thought or even a collection of thoughts – not even the sum of his thoughts – any more than a family of children from a father is the sum of the father.
He is the thinker of thoughts, eternal, unchanging, unfailing thoughts that are expressed as Word and declare Him, His life.
And what does the Life declare? Father and Son.
And is the Father the Son? No – they are of the same Life, same Word, same substance, same nature, but one is Father and one is son.
Jesus and His Father are ONE – One what? One Life by One Spirit.Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 27 2006,10:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2006,09:21) Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 27 2006,03:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,18:31) Hi Malcolm,
So you say when the WORD, as a being, appears in scripture it means God Himself. What do others think? Is this kosher?You are confusing an unusual textural form with a change of doctrine.
One scriptural traslation does not make God into His Son.
The Word was WITH God and like thre trinity doctrine you have ignored this repeated scriptural statement.
Jesus is the Word, a being of divine nature in origin.
A word is expressed from a being and does not remain that being.
He is the Word of God, meaning his origins are in that God .
He is from God, and his being derives from God alone.Jn 1.14f
” And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”God was not begotten
Well in my opinion God's thoughts are eternal, they are perfect, cannot fail.
A Word is the expression of a thought and the Greek word Logos means the Word containing the thought.
Now God is not a thought but a thinker of thoughts.
So when we use the term the Word of God it covers a range of possibilities
It can be speaking of the words of God to declare His general will and purpose in creation.
It can be speaking of His lifestream expressed – son(s) of God.
In either case it is unchanging, unfailing, and therefore a promise.
Even as a seed is a promise of life according to the pattern contained within (Gen 1:11)
So if someone is going to express themselves they are revealing what? Who they are?
Unless the person is veiling their true self then what you see expressed is them.
It will show you their innermost being – the very core of them – what lays in their mind to be.
When we say someone is true to themselves – it implies they have followed through on what they purposed to achieve in their minds to express what they are.
I cannot see how you can separate God from His Word – any more than you can separate God from His thoughts.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and as a man thinks in his heart so he is.
If what God expressed, which was a son, which was with Him before all else – is Word (and we know he is) and the Word expressed is what? Light – Life – Love of God expressed. Then God also is Light – which He is.
Is Life, is Love and is Word.
IMHO
Hi Malcolm.
God is not
thought
but
spirit.Even thought is a product of the being and not itself that being.
So if the word contains the thought it does not state that God is the Word, but plainly declares that He is not.
The Word, obedient to the expressed thought of God, is sent out from God to do His will.
Hi NickTrue God in fact is unfathomable to us unless He gives us some way to fathom Him.
He is infinite we are finite.
He is invisible we dwell in a visible domain.
He is light yet we do not see that Light unless it strikes something or is reflected or diffracted off something.
Unless He limits or confines Himself, He remains inaccessible to us.
Now it is true God is not a thought or even a collection of thoughts – not even the sum of his thoughts – any more than a family of children from a father is the sum of the father.
He is the thinker of thoughts, eternal, unchanging, unfailing thoughts that are expressed as Word and declare Him, His life.
And what does the Life declare? Father and Son.
And is the Father the Son? No – they are of the same Life, same Word, same substance, same nature, but one is Father and one is son.
Jesus and His Father are ONE – One what? One Life by One Spirit.
amen.Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.Don't mean to interfere, but excellant comments, nice post.
Hi SS,
This is an open forum and all input is welcome.
The Son, as image, derives his separate being from his Father.
They become one eternally through unity in will and purpose and the Spirit of the Father dwelling within the submitted being of the Son and his brothers.Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 27 2006,03:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,18:31) Hi Malcolm,
So you say when the WORD, as a being, appears in scripture it means God Himself. What do others think? Is this kosher?You are confusing an unusual textural form with a change of doctrine.
One scriptural traslation does not make God into His Son.
The Word was WITH God and like thre trinity doctrine you have ignored this repeated scriptural statement.
Jesus is the Word, a being of divine nature in origin.
A word is expressed from a being and does not remain that being.
He is the Word of God, meaning his origins are in that God .
He is from God, and his being derives from God alone.Jn 1.14f
” And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”God was not begotten
Well in my opinion God's thoughts are eternal, they are perfect, cannot fail.
A Word is the expression of a thought and the Greek word Logos means the Word containing the thought.
Now God is not a thought but a thinker of thoughts.
So when we use the term the Word of God it covers a range of possibilities
It can be speaking of the words of God to declare His general will and purpose in creation.
It can be speaking of His lifestream expressed – son(s) of God.
In either case it is unchanging, unfailing, and therefore a promise.
Even as a seed is a promise of life according to the pattern contained within (Gen 1:11)
So if someone is going to express themselves they are revealing what? Who they are?
Unless the person is veiling their true self then what you see expressed is them.
It will show you their innermost being – the very core of them – what lays in their mind to be.
When we say someone is true to themselves – it implies they have followed through on what they purposed to achieve in their minds to express what they are.
I cannot see how you can separate God from His Word – any more than you can separate God from His thoughts.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and as a man thinks in his heart so he is.
If what God expressed, which was a son, which was with Him before all else – is Word (and we know he is) and the Word expressed is what? Light – Life – Love of God expressed. Then God also is Light – which He is.
Is Life, is Love and is Word.
IMHO
Hi Malcolm,
The Word or Logos[3056] has a variety of meanings including “thing “and “things”[Mt 21.24,26.44 and Lk 1.4]but always relates to non human words, matters and messages and statements.You say it applies to the “Sons of God.” or “lifestream expressed”. Can you show me where you have found this in scripture?
Scripture shows that the unity between the Father and the Son is not in one substance, one eternally shared being, but in the sharing between two beings, the Father who begat a Son, and then sent and then later indwelled him for eternity.
The Word was “WITH God” appears at least three times in scripture. But my concordance will not give me the origin of WITH, which I would like to study. Can others help?
Hi Nick
Don't have much time but thought I'd just paste this.
Will talk more later.The original Greek goes like this…
IN ORIGINAL WAS THE SAYING AND THE SAYING WAS TOWARD THE
En Arche eimi ho logos kai ho logos eimi pros hoGOD AND GOD WAS THE SAYING THIS WAS IN ORIGINAL TOWARD
Theos kai theos eimi ho logos houtos eimi en Arche prosTHE GOD
Ho theoshttp://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf this might help…
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2006,10:04) Hi Malcolm,
Is 55.8
'For my thoughts are not your thoughts”
Are we our thoughts?
Neither is God.v11
“So will My Word be WHICH GOES FORTH FROM MY MOUTH; it will not return to Me empty..”
No but our thoughts express who we are, as do His.
In reality God is infinite, eternal, immortal, invisible – in short unfathomable to us, yet He can be known and is known by His Word – God is not literally Light either – a being of Light perhaps – but that would be only the body of His being.
All life is in fact invisible – spirit, and is only seen in the form which expresses it – i.e. body.
So when we say Apple we are speaking of the fruit of a life which is produced from a tree which in turn came from a seed which is also contained in that fruit…
But the life of apple lays within that seed and is unseen and undetectable until planted in the right conditions to produce that life in a form visible.
Yet because the life is not literally the body that expresses it, do we therefore consider the life of apple to be something other than apple life? No.
God is Word, he is expressed in a form called Word, one makes the other visible.
I hope that helps explain this, it is not always easy to explain these things, and no amount of explanation can replace revelation.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2006,15:37) Hi SS,
This is an open forum and all input is welcome.
The Son, as image, derives his separate being from his Father.
They become one eternally through unity in will and purpose and the Spirit of the Father dwelling within the submitted being of the Son and his brothers.
Hi Nick,Joh 4:24 GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship him MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT and in truth.
Joh 1:2 THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD.
The same spirit! the Son is with his Father and is ONE with his Father.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God WORSHIP HIM.proskuneō
pros-koo-neh'-o
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, LIKE A DOG LICKING HIS MASTER’S HAND); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): – worship.Now it is clear that Angels have a higher status than humans and it is clear that Jesus never rebukes anyone for worshipping him.
Why? Because he is ONE with his Father, there is no other. We must worship the One true God in spirit, just as those angels in heaven do.God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2006,21:09) Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 27 2006,03:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,18:31) Hi Malcolm,
So you say when the WORD, as a being, appears in scripture it means God Himself. What do others think? Is this kosher?You are confusing an unusual textural form with a change of doctrine.
One scriptural traslation does not make God into His Son.
The Word was WITH God and like thre trinity doctrine you have ignored this repeated scriptural statement.
Jesus is the Word, a being of divine nature in origin.
A word is expressed from a being and does not remain that being.
He is the Word of God, meaning his origins are in that God .
He is from God, and his being derives from God alone.Jn 1.14f
” And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”God was not begotten
Well in my opinion God's thoughts are eternal, they are perfect, cannot fail.
A Word is the expression of a thought and the Greek word Logos means the Word containing the thought.
Now God is not a thought but a thinker of thoughts.
So when we use the term the Word of God it covers a range of possibilities
It can be speaking of the words of God to declare His general will and purpose in creation.
It can be speaking of His lifestream expressed – son(s) of God.
In either case it is unchanging, unfailing, and therefore a promise.
Even as a seed is a promise of life according to the pattern contained within (Gen 1:11)
So if someone is going to express themselves they are revealing what? Who they are?
Unless the person is veiling their true self then what you see expressed is them.
It will show you their innermost being – the very core of them – what lays in their mind to be.
When we say someone is true to themselves – it implies they have followed through on what they purposed to achieve in their minds to express what they are.
I cannot see how you can separate God from His Word – any more than you can separate God from His thoughts.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and as a man thinks in his heart so he is.
If what God expressed, which was a son, which was with Him before all else – is Word (and we know he is) and the Word expressed is what? Light – Life – Love of God expressed. Then God also is Light – which He is.
Is Life, is Love and is Word.
IMHO
Hi Malcolm,
The Word or Logos[3056] has a variety of meanings including “thing “and “things”[Mt 21.24,26.44 and Lk 1.4]but always relates to non human words, matters and messages and statements.You say it applies to the “Sons of God.” or “lifestream expressed”. Can you show me where you have found this in scripture?
Scripture shows that the unity between the Father and the Son is not in one substance, one eternally shared being, but in the sharing between two beings, the Father who begat a Son, and then sent and then later indwelled him for eternity.
The Word was “WITH God” appears at least three times in scripture. But my concordance will not give me the origin of WITH, which I would like to study. Can others help?
Quote You say it applies to the “Sons of God.” or “lifestream expressed”. Can you show me where you have found this in scripture? We are called Jesus' brethren (Heb 2:11-12) – he is Word – I believe we are too.
Matthew 13:38 tells us we are the seed the sower planted and the tares are the seed of the wicked one.
Luke 8:11 in another parable tells us the Word is the seed.
1 Peter 1:23 -25 tells us we are to be born again not of corruptible seed but incorruptible seed by the Word of God.
In 1 John 3:9 we are told that those who are born of God have God's seed in them.Quote Scripture shows that the unity between the Father and the Son is not in one substance, one eternally shared being, but in the sharing between two beings, the Father who begat a Son, and then sent and then later indwelled him for eternity. You are right unity is always a matter of more than one, one person does not achieve unity with themselves. I believe the Father indwelled him before he came to earth in flesh. (Jn 17:5) That He indwelled Him then for the purpose of creation, indwelled him on earth for the purpose of redemption and will indwell him in the ages to come for the purpose of ruling and reigning in the redeemed creation.
Hi Malcolm,
Matt 13.36f
“Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said
'Explain to us the parable of the tares in the field……
'The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, and the field is the world…..as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom, and the tares are the sons of the evil one”Lk 8.4f and Matt 13 18 just before the previous scripture.
” When a large crowd was coming together, and those from the various cities were journeying to him. He spoke by way of a parable…the seed is the Word of God….But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the Word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverence”
These two scriptures relete to entirely different circumstances.The Luke one is about those who are unsaved and respond to the salvation message.
The parable in Matthew is about those who are saved and equipped by the Spirit are sent into the world living amongst the unsaved.
John 17.5
“Now Father, glorify me with the glory which I had WITH you before the world was”This does not relate to a shared glory of a conjoint being but the individual glory of the Word of God, the Son of God, spoken of by JTB in Jn 1.14.
“…and we saw HIS glory, the glory as of the only begotten from the Father..”The Word was WITH God in the beginning[Jn 1.1-2] and he had glory WITH GOD then, before the creation of earth. John and Peter and James saw it on the mountain.
You will need more scriptural evidence that God indwelled the Word prior to conception this I am sorry Malcolm.
Quote These two scriptures relate to entirely different circumstances.
The Luke one is about those who are unsaved and respond to the salvation message.
The parable in Matthew is about those who are saved and equipped by the Spirit are sent into the world living amongst the unsaved.Well I would say that it is a matter of one being the word seed soul that God plants in men, the other being the Word in Spirit form that comes down from heaven.
ISAIAH 55:10-11
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.The rain quickens the seed even as the Spirit of God quickens the Word seed, but the same rain falls on the just and the unjust, bringing forth vessels both to honor and dishonor.
It takes the Word in Spirit form to quicken the Word in seed form.
John 5:38 tells us they did not have his word abiding in them – why? Because they they did not believe him who God sent.
They could not be quickened by him who God sent because there was no seed in them to be quickened.
John 8:37 tells us they sought to kill Jesus – why? Because the word had no place in them.
This is the general reaction of those who have no place for the word in them, they seek to kill the true seed.
John 8:43 Jesus asks them a rhetorical question:JOHN 8:43
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.What is he saying here?
To hear the word is to understand his speech, why could they not understand his speech? Because they could not hear his word.
So you cannot understand the word intellectually it must be spiritually quickened to you.
So why was it not spiritually quickened to them?
Because there was nothing in them to receive that word, no compatible seed to be quickened by the rain of God's Doctrine.That’s the way I see it…
Quote John 17.5
“Now Father, glorify me with the glory which I had WITH you before the world was”kai doxason ego su pater para seautou ho doxa hos eicon
AND NOW GLORIFY-ME YOU FATHER BESIDE YOURSELF THE GLORY WHICH I HADpro ho kosmos einai para su
BEFORE OF THE WORLDTO BE BESIDE YOUAnd now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee
Actually I think the old KJV is more accurate in translating this one…
So now, O my Father, glorify me with you, with the same glory which I had with you before the world was made.
(Peshitta – Lamsa translation)Quote This does not relate to a shared glory of a conjoint being but the individual glory of the Word of God, the Son of God, spoken of by JTB in Jn 1.14. “…and we saw HIS glory, the glory as of the only begotten from the Father..”
Well I don't see where that is explicitly stated Nick, that the glory he had with the Father before the world was not the glory of God Himself indwelling His son.
I am inclined to believe it was the glory of His Father Himself in him that he had back then, by which means God created all things.Quote The Word was WITH God in the beginning[Jn 1.1-2] and he had glory WITH GOD then, before the creation of earth. John and Peter and James saw it on the mountain. You will need more scriptural evidence that God indwelled the Word prior to conception this I am sorry Malcolm.
Well it is a matter of faith of course, but I see stated in both the OT and NT that God changes not, He is the same Yesterday and Today and Forever.
This being the case, that which is revealed in the middle of the book must be the same (in an earthly form of course) as that revealed at the beginning and the end, and must not change in between.
We see that in the beginning was Father and Son, we see this in the middle and we see it at the end – the Throne of God and the Lamb.
It is the Father indwelling the Son in all cases or in none.
Heb 1:1 tells us God who spoke in the OT (in types and shadows of the real) in prophets, has in these last days spoken to us in Son.We see Father and Son stated in the OT in types – God and the prophet.
The prophet spoke God's Word – was the anointed of God – was god to the people – His representative.
I look for patterns in the Word and see a seamless whole that declares the plan and purpose of God.I see God in Christ throughout.
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