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Hi not3,
The sonship of Christ to God precedes his conception as the monogenes son was sent into the world.[1Jn4]
He is the firstborn son from the dead and we ARE adopted sons who already share in his death and will share in his resurrection.[Rom6]Rom 8
” 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: “
So your answer is that Jesus does not need to be adopted (like we do) because his sonship precedes his conception?
You gave 1 John ch.4 as your passage for alignment with the idea that Jesus preceded his sonship with God. I wonder, do you think that just because it reads “God sent..” that that means he was already alive to “send”?
Where in Scripture does it say anything about Jesus agreeing to be sent into the world?
Please do tell!Hi AP,
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6:41
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
John 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
John 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
John 8:14
Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 16:28
I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:8
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
ohn 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voiceSo Christ was sent from heaven by God. Did he have any choice?
It seems so.Phil 2
” 5Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,[a] 6who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. “Nick,
The Father is in heaven, so anything coming FROM THERE can be spoken of as such. God sent his holy Spirit to Mary and Mary conceived.What do you think was “sent” to Mary so that she could conceive? What was needed so that she could conceive? Did she need a preexistent son incarnated inside of her to conceive? No! Was a preexistent son “sent” to her? No! What was sent then?
Incoruptable seed so that Mary could conceive and give birth to God's Son. God sent his Son. All of the verses you quoted lend themselves to this idea as well.
In fact, read all the verses with your presup in mind, and then read them with my presup in mind……….
Hey Adam – good to hear from you!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,19:24) Hi not3,
So God prepared a body for His Son.
So we need to read with BU glasses?
I'm not sure where you would pick up a pair of “BU glasses”? Let me know if you find out…..I have one of the BU books on my shelf, and I have read their website maybe a half a dozen times. Does that make me a “BU”?
Brother, you don't like to be catagorized – neither do I. Thanks.
Hi not3,
BU doctrine strenuously works to hold that Jesus always was just a man
and does all sorts of scriptural calisthenics to hold that position.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,20:10) Hi not3,
BU doctrine strenuously works to hold that Jesus always was just a man
and does all sorts of scriptural calisthenics to hold that position.
Then I guess you catagorize me incorrectly.I have never said Jesus was merely a man. In fact, you have accused me of going back to my Trinitarian roots for believing that Jesus is a divine man. WJ also said I was beginning to sound like a Trinitarian!
I am neither “BU” or Trinitarian. I am a child of God.
I think putting labels on people only further divides the body of Christ.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,20:10) Hi not3,
BU doctrine strenuously works to hold that Jesus always was just a man
and does all sorts of scriptural calisthenics to hold that position.
I must admit that I'm confused by this statement made to Not3. Are you not the same Nick who has been bantering back and forth with me because you believed that Yeshua had to be a man with no advantages so we could follow him? Would a man with no advantages not be “just a man”?Forgive me for this suggestion, but I think you often take the opposite side of an argument for the sake of the argument.
Please clarify what you mean by “just a man” so I can reconcile your posts in the is thread with the ones in the other thread I speak of in the Messages forum. Thanks.
Hi Not3,
You are not being labelled.
You are precious.
Your words are fair game though as our deep beliefs need challenging.Quote (kejonn @ July 16 2007,08:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,20:10) Hi not3,
BU doctrine strenuously works to hold that Jesus always was just a man
and does all sorts of scriptural calisthenics to hold that position.
I must admit that I'm confused by this statement made to Not3. Are you not the same Nick who has been bantering back and forth with me because you believed that Yeshua had to be a man with no advantages so we could follow him? Would a man with no advantages not be “just a man”?Forgive me for this suggestion, but I think you often take the opposite side of an argument for the sake of the argument.
Please clarify what you mean by “just a man” so I can reconcile your posts in the is thread with the ones in the other thread I speak of in the Messages forum. Thanks.
I don't mean to answer for Nick, and I hope he will answer your question. But I think the difference is between BU's thinking Jesus has *always been* a mere man. Nick believes that Jesus preexisted as a spirit son of God, and therefore has not *always been* a mere man. This is my understanding of his theology?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,08:38) Hi Not3,
You are not being labelled.
You are precious.
Your words are fair game though as our deep beliefs need challenging.
Thanks, Nick.“Fair game” – yes, we do put ourselves out here on the line with every post, don't we? It's a good thing, though. We do need to look at our beliefs and see which ones need to go and which ones need to be enlarged. The Spirit will continue to teach us as long as we remain teachable.
Hi kj,
I was referring to his origins and I should have made this clear.
Jesus did not begin life in the womb of Mary as the BU would teach
but certainly after birth and until the Jordan he was just a man.Nick, you have said that in Acts the boys were speaking of a mere man (with no advantages over us), but here you say Jesus was “just a man” UNTIL the Jordan. Was he not “just a man” after the Jordan? If not, what kind of advantages did Jesus have over us?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,15:34) Hi not3,
OK.
He was always just a man but from the Jordan he was an inspired man.
Inspired? That's all?Inspired = influence by example, bring about, stir to action
An inspired man is not much, I'm afraid. In fact, I would say that YOU are an “inspired man.” That is not to say I believe you to be insignificant – on the contrary! However, I am saying that Jesus was/is more than a Nick Hassan.
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