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Quote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2010,17:49) Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 19 2010,16:18) Quote You think that siding with the atheist is reasonable when he calls the God we both believe in imaginary. you think stuart to be lost, i do not.
This is off-topic, but let's be really clear princess, I have turned myself into a LOST FROG with the following spell:I deny that Jesus is the son of god or my saviour.
I can't get out of that one now, can I! Permanently condemned!
Stuart
stuarti have missed you.
Quote In general are women as physically strong as men? no thank the father up above, who would want to break a nail?
in general can men tolerate pain as well as women?
Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 23 2010,14:09) Quote In general are women as physically strong as men? in general can men tolerate pain as well as women?
haha no way!Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 23 2010,14:38) Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 23 2010,14:09) Quote In general are women as physically strong as men? in general can men tolerate pain as well as women?
haha no way!
I agree!Sexism is alive and well in Saudi Arabia. Thank goodness there is at least one country prepared to take the koran seriously:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st….49.html
Stuart
In case anyone was thinking that this Saudi sexism is not islamic sexism, note the job title of this commentator:
“I believe in equal right for everyone according to their circumstances….Women do have rights, but they are based on our view of their obligations in life.” –Dr. Saleh al-Sheikh, the minister for Islamic affairs in Saudi Arabia
Wikipedia on Women's rights in Saudi Arabia
Rights do not depend on circumstance. That is what the word 'rights' means.
Stuart
Maybe Iran is better?
Women and the Iranian Revolution
Women participated heavily in the Iranian Revolution of 1979 that toppled the shah. Notwithstanding this, the Islamic republic of Ayatollah Khomeini severely curtailed rights that women had become accustomed to under the shah. Within months of the founding of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the 1967 Family Protection Law was repealed; female government workers were forced to observe Islamic dress code; women were barred from becoming judges; beaches and sports were sex-segregated; the legal age of marriage for girls was reduced to 13; and married women were barred from attending regular schools. Almost immediately women protested these policies. The Islamic revolution is ideologically committed to inequality for women in inheritance and other areas of the the civil code; and especially committed to segregation of the sexes. Many places, from “schoolrooms to ski slopes to public buses”, are strictly segregated. Females caught by revolutionary officials in a mixed-sex situation can be subject to virginity tests.
Nope. Looks like the introduction of an islamic theocracy (where they take the koran very seriously) took gender equality in that country back to the Dark Ages too.
Hijab
“Bad hijab” ― exposure of any part of the body other than hands and face — is subject to punishment of up to 70 lashes or 60 days imprisonment.[13][14] In April 2007, the Tehran police, (which is under Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei's supervision), began the most fierce crackdown on what's known as “bad hijab” in more than a decade. In the capital Tehran thousands of Iranian women were cautioned over their poor Islamic dress and several hundred arrested
I have dined with Iranian academics living in London. They hang their heads in shame at what the introduction of sharia law has done to their country.
Stuart
Maybe the situation has improved for women in Afghanistan…
Nope, sorry. The American-backed president is nearly as bad as the Taliban were.
Stuart
Pakistan?
The status of women in Pakistan varies considerably across classes, regions, and the rural/urban divide due to uneven socioeconomic development and the impact of tribal, feudal, and capitalist social formations on women's lives. The Pakistani women of today enjoy a better status than most Muslim and Middle Eastern women. However, on an average, the women's situation vis-à-vis men is one of systemic subordination, although there have been attempts by the government and enlightened groups to elevate the status of women in Pakistani society
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Pakistan%5B/i%5D
The health indicators of women in Pakistan are among the worst in the world.[1] Intra-household bias in food distribution leads to nutritional deficiencies among female children. Early marriages of girls, excessive childbearing, lack of control over their own bodies, and a high level of illiteracy adversely affect women's health. More than 40 percent of the total female population are anemic
Stuart
How about Mauritania?
Women still faced legal discrimination. The testimony of two women was necessary to equal that of one man. The courts grant only half the amount of an indemnity to the family of a woman who has been killed that they award for a man's death. Formulas applied to property distribution varied widely from case to case and court to court. In addition the validity of and right to establish prenuptial agreements was not always respected. The personal status code, which was published and assumed force of law in August 2001, provides a framework for the consistent application of secular law and Shari'a-based family law.[1]
Women did not face legal discrimination in areas not addressed specifically by Shari'a. The law provides that men and women should receive equal pay for equal work. While not applied universally, the two largest employers–the civil service and the state mining company–observed this law. In the modern wage sector, women also received family benefits, including three months of maternity leave
In the case of Mauritania then, it would not seem to be particularly cultural but it is only when islamic doctrines are invoked that sexism appears.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 23 2010,20:47) In case anyone was thinking that this Saudi sexism is not islamic sexism, note the job title of this commentator: “I believe in equal right for everyone according to their circumstances….Women do have rights, but they are based on our view of their obligations in life.” –Dr. Saleh al-Sheikh, the minister for Islamic affairs in Saudi Arabia
Wikipedia on Women's rights in Saudi Arabia
Rights do not depend on circumstance. That is what the word 'rights' means.
Stuart
“Rights” do depend on circumstances STU do people in prisons have the same rights as those who are not?Do not land owners have different rights than renters?
Do not school teachers have rights different than strangers of your children?
Doesn't Police and military have rights that criminals and private citizens do not have?
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 23 2010,20:59) Maybe Iran is better? Women and the Iranian Revolution
Women participated heavily in the Iranian Revolution of 1979 that toppled the shah. Notwithstanding this, the Islamic republic of Ayatollah Khomeini severely curtailed rights that women had become accustomed to under the shah. Within months of the founding of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the 1967 Family Protection Law was repealed; female government workers were forced to observe Islamic dress code; women were barred from becoming judges; beaches and sports were sex-segregated; the legal age of marriage for girls was reduced to 13; and married women were barred from attending regular schools. Almost immediately women protested these policies. The Islamic revolution is ideologically committed to inequality for women in inheritance and other areas of the the civil code; and especially committed to segregation of the sexes. Many places, from “schoolrooms to ski slopes to public buses”, are strictly segregated. Females caught by revolutionary officials in a mixed-sex situation can be subject to virginity tests.
Nope. Looks like the introduction of an islamic theocracy (where they take the koran very seriously) took gender equality in that country back to the Dark Ages too.
Hijab
“Bad hijab” ― exposure of any part of the body other than hands and face — is subject to punishment of up to 70 lashes or 60 days imprisonment.[13][14] In April 2007, the Tehran police, (which is under Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei's supervision), began the most fierce crackdown on what's known as “bad hijab” in more than a decade. In the capital Tehran thousands of Iranian women were cautioned over their poor Islamic dress and several hundred arrested
I have dined with Iranian academics living in London. They hang their heads in shame at what the introduction of sharia law has done to their country.
Stuart
They could not be taking the Quran seriously at all because that type of dress is not recommended in the Quran.But just to demonstrate truth to you where is it in the Bible that Nuns should dress the way they do? Look in Jewish culture and see how orthodox Jewish women dress as I told you before these are cultural behaviours not prescribed from any Holy Books.
But if any Christian should say women should not have to dress like that then they should protest against Christian Nuns and orthodox Christian women of the middle east.
Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 24 2010,01:46) stuart, to call this sexism to say the least is an understatement. slavery comes to mind.
Do not mix Islam with cultural behaviours if you do you will have to include the bahaviours of Christians as acceptable in the Bible. Women in america have only recently been given the right to Vote.The Bible doesn't say a woman should not vote but Christian men prevented them for most of American history. Do not mix Christianity with cultural behaviours
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 24 2010,06:01) 
You need to be educated on these things before just commenting
Picture A shows an optional dress.Picture B shows a compulsory dress, or one that sharia law demands where it can.
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 24 2010,06:06) Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 24 2010,01:46) stuart, to call this sexism to say the least is an understatement. slavery comes to mind.
Do not mix Islam with cultural behaviours if you do you will have to include the bahaviours of Christians as acceptable in the Bible. Women in america have only recently been given the right to Vote.The Bible doesn't say a woman should not vote but Christian men prevented them for most of American history. Do not mix Christianity with cultural behaviours
OK. How about you not change the subject in return then.The subject was not the sexism of christianity, that could be for another thread, which I will start if you cannot be bothered. No one mentioned the subject of suffrage, although we could, and I don't think you will find that to show islam as a shining example of gender equality, do you? Pakistan may be an exception, but they have the recent history of being part of a secular nation, and they certainly make up for any better women's rights with their shocking record on health and mortality statistics for females.
Just so you don't try to use this diversion as a chance to claim the whole 'cultural' canard again, remember the example of Mauritius: they are not all that sexist culturally but they become so in cases where they apply islamic principles.
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 24 2010,05:48) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 23 2010,20:59) Maybe Iran is better? Women and the Iranian Revolution
Women participated heavily in the Iranian Revolution of 1979 that toppled the shah. Notwithstanding this, the Islamic republic of Ayatollah Khomeini severely curtailed rights that women had become accustomed to under the shah. Within months of the founding of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the 1967 Family Protection Law was repealed; female government workers were forced to observe Islamic dress code; women were barred from becoming judges; beaches and sports were sex-segregated; the legal age of marriage for girls was reduced to 13; and married women were barred from attending regular schools. Almost immediately women protested these policies. The Islamic revolution is ideologically committed to inequality for women in inheritance and other areas of the the civil code; and especially committed to segregation of the sexes. Many places, from “schoolrooms to ski slopes to public buses”, are strictly segregated. Females caught by revolutionary officials in a mixed-sex situation can be subject to virginity tests.
Nope. Looks like the introduction of an islamic theocracy (where they take the koran very seriously) took gender equality in that country back to the Dark Ages too.
Hijab
“Bad hijab” ― exposure of any part of the body other than hands and face — is subject to punishment of up to 70 lashes or 60 days imprisonment.[13][14] In April 2007, the Tehran police, (which is under Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei's supervision), began the most fierce crackdown on what's known as “bad hijab” in more than a decade. In the capital Tehran thousands of Iranian women were cautioned over their poor Islamic dress and several hundred arrested
I have dined with Iranian academics living in London. They hang their heads in shame at what the introduction of sharia law has done to their country.
Stuart
They could not be taking the Quran seriously at all because that type of dress is not recommended in the Quran.But just to demonstrate truth to you where is it in the Bible that Nuns should dress the way they do? Look in Jewish culture and see how orthodox Jewish women dress as I told you before these are cultural behaviours not prescribed from any Holy Books.
But if any Christian should say women should not have to dress like that then they should protest against Christian Nuns and orthodox Christian women of the middle east.
But the jilbab is compulsory, isn't it. Not much difference there in Western terms. Perhaps just the demeaning way it makes women look as if they are peering out from inside a black letterbox.Sura 33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed…
And we know that 'abroad' means anywhere that they will be seen in public.
As I mentioned above, there is no point protesting for a woman's right to dress how she wants AND to protest against a nun's garb. Because she is dressing how she wants!
Same with Jewish women, and it is not until we get to islam that we have compulsion, on pain of punishment, the severity of which relates to how seriously the country takes sharia law.
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 24 2010,05:43) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 23 2010,20:47) In case anyone was thinking that this Saudi sexism is not islamic sexism, note the job title of this commentator: “I believe in equal right for everyone according to their circumstances….Women do have rights, but they are based on our view of their obligations in life.” –Dr. Saleh al-Sheikh, the minister for Islamic affairs in Saudi Arabia
Wikipedia on Women's rights in Saudi Arabia
Rights do not depend on circumstance. That is what the word 'rights' means.
Stuart
“Rights” do depend on circumstances STU do people in prisons have the same rights as those who are not?Do not land owners have different rights than renters?
Do not school teachers have rights different than strangers of your children?
Doesn't Police and military have rights that criminals and private citizens do not have?
No, you have human rights regardless of your state of incarceration or otherwise, and that is what we are discussing, human rights.Stuart
Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 24 2010,01:46) stuart, to call this sexism to say the least is an understatement. slavery comes to mind.
Indeed, and the koran gives so much control to men that wives do not even have the room to withdraw conjugal 'rights' in protest, a common means of female solidarity!Stuart
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