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bd,
you run to scripture for your male is greater than female, then run to science to support your beliefs. which one is it?
you really don't know what you are talking about do you when it comes to women.
take a good look a psalms 31.10, then come back and give it another shot.
OK, we understand that a woman is half that of a man when it comes to certain things according to the Quaran. What about older people? I know I have less short term memory now than I did when I was a youth.
So is an older person worth half that of a youth?
At the end of the day, if a woman is distracted by managing more things, then a youth or young adult also has less things to manage.
Curious as to why the same logic wouldn't apply here if that is the case.
Face it BD, Islamic countries are less desirable places to live in the world than Christian ones generally speaking. There is a reason for that.
I know that in New Zealand, Australia, Canada, USA, England, etc, are places where people from countries dominated by other religions, desire to live. Why is that?
I even met a guy from Iran in New Zealand who told me that he could see that God had blessed New Zealand much more than Iran. Life was so much better in New Zealand he thought, yet NEw Zealand has less than 1% Muslim representation with the biggest belief being Christian based. As a result of this observation and other searching he came to the conclusion that the Bible contained the truth and not the Quaran. Others in his community (Iranian) were still Muslim and one day he said to them that it was obvious that a religion that promises virgins in the next life was dubious in the highest degree. They didn't even argue that point.
Now take a look at the following page, where Muslims are concentrated in the world.
http://www.factbook.net/muslim_pop.phpWhy is it that many of these countries are not great places to live?
Sure some of these countries lie on great oil deposits, and cannot help prosper to some degree because of it, but generally speaking there are not long immigration queues to this part of the world.At the end of the day, a country is as good as it's people and the people are guided by what they believe.
Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 21 2010,14:19) bd, you run to scripture for your male is greater than female, then run to science to support your beliefs. which one is it?
you really don't know what you are talking about do you when it comes to women.
take a good look a psalms 31.10, then come back and give it another shot.
Psalm 31:10 (King James Version)10For my life is spent with grief, and my years with sighing: my strength faileth because of mine iniquity, and my bones are consumed.
That doesn't apply to me my life is spent in JOY, Look:
Psalm 31
23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.24 Be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart, all ye that hope in the LORD.
I also never said men are greater than women
Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah. that is the supreme felicity.
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #72)Is man the Head of the woman or not?
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1 Timothy 2:11-13For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1 Corinthians 11:6-8Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1 Corinthians 11:8-10In God remember they are ONE:
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
1 Corinthians 11:11-13Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2010,14:47) OK, we understand that a woman is half that of a man when it comes to certain things according to the Quaran. What about older people? I know I have less short term memory now than I did when I was a youth. So is an older person worth half that of a youth?
At the end of the day, if a woman is distracted by managing more things, then a youth or young adult also has less things to manage.
Curious as to why the same logic wouldn't apply here if that is the case.
You are voicing your opinion against the Bible and Quran and I don't really know why?Did Jesus choose Older people or women to be his disciples to preach and remember his instructions?
Yet we know that Moses was an older man
You have to ask yourself a question T8 how many prophets in the Bible are women?
I'm not asking who was or was not righteous but who did God choose to spread his message?
Why is it you will not accept your own belief.
If man had no degree above woman would we not find God choosing men and woman equally to accomplish His tasks?
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2010,14:54) Face it BD, Islamic countries are less desirable places to live in the world than Christian ones generally speaking. There is a reason for that. I know that in New Zealand, Australia, Canada, USA, England, etc, are places where people from countries dominated by other religions, desire to live. Why is that?
I even met a guy from Iran in New Zealand who told me that he could see that God had blessed New Zealand much more than Iran. Life was so much better in New Zealand he thought, yet NEw Zealand has less than 1% Muslim representation with the biggest belief being Christian based. As a result of this observation and other searching he came to the conclusion that the Bible contained the truth and not the Quaran. Others in his community (Iranian) were still Muslim and one day he said to them that it was obvious that a religion that promises virgins in the next life was dubious in the highest degree. They didn't even argue that point.
Now take a look at the following page, where Muslims are concentrated in the world.
http://www.factbook.net/muslim_pop.phpWhy is it that many of these countries are not great places to live?
Sure some of these countries lie on great oil deposits, and cannot help prosper to some degree because of it, but generally speaking there are not long immigration queues to this part of the world.At the end of the day, a country is as good as it's people and the people are guided by what they believe.
Yes, and Catholicism is the majority of Christians by far so why are you not Catholic?America has a Large Catholic population it is larger than any other Christian denomination by far and now they have gay priests, and states have Gay Marriage rights and you think that desiring to move to places that are more flexible with laws and lifestyle is a good thing?
You should be a Catholic, without Catholicism Christianity would not be so popular at all because believe it or not MOST Christians are Catholic and the next major group is protestant which is mainly catholic without a pope
What is your point BD.
Sinners know how to corrupt good morals. We all know that.
Enough sinners can bring judgement on a country.The USA is a place where many people desire to live. That includes people of other faiths, persuasions, etc. But the USA is losing its unique place in the world. Maybe people have turned their backs on “In God we Trust”?
The USA is something like: Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% (2007 est.)
If the USA was 51% Muslim, then the country would be very different and more like what you find in parts of Asia and the Middle East.
BD,
Funny how you try your best to show why two women are needed in the place of one man for testimony. Basically it amounts to you believing women are scatter-brained.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2010,16:02) What is your point BD. Sinners know how to corrupt good morals. We all know that.
Enough sinners can bring judgement on a country.The USA is a place where many people desire to live. That includes people of other faiths, persuasions, etc. But the USA is losing its unique place in the world. Maybe people have turned their backs on “In God we Trust”?
The USA is something like: Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% (2007 est.)
If the USA was 51% Muslim, then the country would be very different and more like what you find in parts of Asia and the Middle East.
What your saying is not quite right, during the golden age of Islam it was the dark age for Christianity. Many of the problems today in Islamic countries has to do with tribalism that has resurged.The Islamic Golden Age or the Islamic Renaissance,[1] is traditionally dated from the 8th to 13th centuries A.D.,[2][3] but has been extended to at least the 15th century by recent scholarship.[4] During this period, artists, engineers, scholars, poets, philosophers, geographers and traders in the Islamic world contributed to agriculture, the arts, economics, industry, law, literature, navigation, philosophy, sciences, sociology, and technology, both by preserving earlier traditions and by adding inventions and innovations of their own.[5] Howard R. Turner writes: “Muslim artists and scientists, princes and laborers together made a unique culture that has directly and indirectly influenced societies on every continent.”[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
The U.S. also had a very dark period but these things happen because of cultural clashes not the religion.
If the USA was 51% Muslim, the country would simply be 51% Muslim. You just demonstrated that around 80% of America is Christian now can you tell me what is so “Christian” about America, biblically speaking?
You must understand that there is the American way of life which blends with the persons religion, To me if America was 51% Muslim it would be the return of the Golden Age because Islam free of tribalism and dictatorships flourish.
Remember the protestants and other religious groups that suffered elsewhere came to America to practice their religion free from persecution.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2010,00:54) BD, Funny how you try your best to show why two women are needed in the place of one man for testimony. Basically it amounts to you believing women are scatter-brained.
Kejonn,Are women the same as men, yes or no?
In what ways do they differ?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2010,12:52) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2010,00:54) BD, Funny how you try your best to show why two women are needed in the place of one man for testimony. Basically it amounts to you believing women are scatter-brained.
Kejonn,Are women the same as men, yes or no?
In what ways do they differ?
No, they are not the same as me. But their minds, eyes, ears, etc. are equivalent to mine. Therefore, a testimony of one woman should hold as much merit as one man. In the US, it does, and this works just fine.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2010,07:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2010,12:52) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2010,00:54) BD, Funny how you try your best to show why two women are needed in the place of one man for testimony. Basically it amounts to you believing women are scatter-brained.
Kejonn,Are women the same as men, yes or no?
In what ways do they differ?
No, they are not the same as me. But their minds, eyes, ears, etc. are equivalent to mine. Therefore, a testimony of one woman should hold as much merit as one man. In the US, it does, and this works just fine.
Do you live in the U.S.?The Law may say so but people tend to believe a man over a woman in America.
This is the biggest problem in cases such as rape, especially date rape a woman testifies and is rarely believed over a man it is usually only when several women come forth that a man will be held guilty.
You just keep showing me that either you live a sheltered life or you simply lack knowledge on things you speak about.
So even if you say it “should” it doesn't and it never has.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2010,17:20) Do you live in the U.S.? Yes.
Quote The Law may say so but people tend to believe a man over a woman in America. What does this have to do with the word of some god?
And not many of those people are around any more. Some people have come into the 21st century.
Quote This is the biggest problem in cases such as rape, especially date rape a woman testifies and is rarely believed over a man it is usually only when several women come forth that a man will be held guilty. If a man raped another man, you'd see the same result. It typically takes the testimony of more than one person if other proof is not available.
Quote You just keep showing me that either you live a sheltered life or you simply lack knowledge on things you speak about. So even if you say it “should” it doesn't and it never has.
I don't live a sheltered life, I live one where I feel that women and men should be equal in many aspects of life. One is in testimony. There is nothing masculine oriented in recounting events.Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 19 2010,16:18) Quote You think that siding with the atheist is reasonable when he calls the God we both believe in imaginary. you think stuart to be lost, i do not.
This is off-topic, but let's be really clear princess, I have turned myself into a LOST FROG with the following spell:I deny that Jesus is the son of god or my saviour.
I can't get out of that one now, can I! Permanently condemned!
Stuart
BD
Quote When you don't speak the truth to confort someone you may believe that you are slowly converting them but it could be the other way around, they are really softening you up to sin.
Are there really people here who still want to try and convert me? I think you might be the only one BD!Quote You guys love STU so much you cast him out and enforced his belief that he is an unbeliever then generally left him there to catch any conversation that would come by and when anyone felt like slumming they would go and talk to him.
I have been upgraded to Skeptic, which is a much better description, because I am one, and because I do believe in many things.Quote You have to ask yourself a question T8 how many prophets in the Bible are women?
You read of the birth of many boys in the OT. Can you name any girls whose appearance is described? The Abrahamic faiths are sexist, and islam is sexist IN PRACTICE (for example in the application of sharia law). Now I’m sure christians would argue that the NT is not nearly as bad, and they are not sexist in practise (can’t do it properly eh?!) and I will list the sexism of the NT later in another thread. I promise you the list is less than half the length of the koranic examples.The point here is that the sexism in scripture is a reflection of the attitudes held contemporary with those who wrote them, just as the astronomy of Aristotle was the contemporary view. We can acknowledge that Aristotle’s thinking was right in some regards and wrong in others, but here you are unable to criticise the koran and having to twist scripture to fit a modern view, defending the word, when pretty obviously that word needs updating to match the modern ethics of equality. Equality does not mean by the way, that women should be considered identical to men which is what you seem to have been arguing against, but that they should have the same opportunities as men. t8 has demonstrated well the error in your argument there.
As soon as you put all your stocks in infallible ancient dogma you give away your credibility in a modern ethical discussion. Notwithstanding what the outcome might be, am I wrong to say that a woman, on her own, SHOULD on PRINCIPLE be treated as just as reliable as a witness as a man?
Quote Many of the problems today in Islamic countries has to do with tribalism that has resurged.
Which is a damning indictment on islam, because the only thing it really had going for it in political terms was its use for uniting the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula. So now islam has apparently failed to stem tribalism (and indeed sunni and shia are tribes with different interpretations of ISLAM!) maybe it is a completely useless religion, as well as one that inspires people to kill.It sure is sexist though.
Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2010,14:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2010,17:20) Do you live in the U.S.? Yes.
Quote The Law may say so but people tend to believe a man over a woman in America. What does this have to do with the word of some god?
And not many of those people are around any more. Some people have come into the 21st century.
Quote This is the biggest problem in cases such as rape, especially date rape a woman testifies and is rarely believed over a man it is usually only when several women come forth that a man will be held guilty. If a man raped another man, you'd see the same result. It typically takes the testimony of more than one person if other proof is not available.
Quote You just keep showing me that either you live a sheltered life or you simply lack knowledge on things you speak about. So even if you say it “should” it doesn't and it never has.
I don't live a sheltered life, I live one where I feel that women and men should be equal in many aspects of life. One is in testimony. There is nothing masculine oriented in recounting events.
You still never told me what aspects of life you feel women and men are not equal.Quote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2010,18:26) BD Quote When you don't speak the truth to confort someone you may believe that you are slowly converting them but it could be the other way around, they are really softening you up to sin.
Are there really people here who still want to try and convert me? I think you might be the only one BD!Quote You guys love STU so much you cast him out and enforced his belief that he is an unbeliever then generally left him there to catch any conversation that would come by and when anyone felt like slumming they would go and talk to him.
I have been upgraded to Skeptic, which is a much better description, because I am one, and because I do believe in many things.Quote You have to ask yourself a question T8 how many prophets in the Bible are women?
You read of the birth of many boys in the OT. Can you name any girls whose appearance is described? The Abrahamic faiths are sexist, and islam is sexist IN PRACTICE (for example in the application of sharia law). Now I’m sure christians would argue that the NT is not nearly as bad, and they are not sexist in practise (can’t do it properly eh?!) and I will list the sexism of the NT later in another thread. I promise you the list is less than half the length of the koranic examples.The point here is that the sexism in scripture is a reflection of the attitudes held contemporary with those who wrote them, just as the astronomy of Aristotle was the contemporary view. We can acknowledge that Aristotle’s thinking was right in some regards and wrong in others, but here you are unable to criticise the koran and having to twist scripture to fit a modern view, defending the word, when pretty obviously that word needs updating to match the modern ethics of equality. Equality does not mean by the way, that women should be considered identical to men which is what you seem to have been arguing against, but that they should have the same opportunities as men. t8 has demonstrated well the error in your argument there.
As soon as you put all your stocks in infallible ancient dogma you give away your credibility in a modern ethical discussion. Notwithstanding what the outcome might be, am I wrong to say that a woman, on her own, SHOULD on PRINCIPLE be treated as just as reliable as a witness as a man?
Quote Many of the problems today in Islamic countries has to do with tribalism that has resurged.
Which is a damning indictment on islam, because the only thing it really had going for it in political terms was its use for uniting the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula. So now islam has apparently failed to stem tribalism (and indeed sunni and shia are tribes with different interpretations of ISLAM!) maybe it is a completely useless religion, as well as one that inspires people to kill.It sure is sexist though.
Stuart
What you see as sexist is from your lack of knowledge.In general are women as physically strong as men?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 22 2010,02:29) You still never told me what aspects of life you feel women and men are not equal.
They are typically not equal in physical strength. They are typically not equal in the ability to nurture children.Yes, men are different, in many ways, but that does not mean they can not be viewed as equals. You keep arguing the point, but there is absolutely no real reason that the testimony of one man is more reliable than one woman. You will defend your ancient sheepherder text no matter how wrong it is in a modern society.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 23 2010,00:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 22 2010,02:29) You still never told me what aspects of life you feel women and men are not equal.
They are typically not equal in physical strength. They are typically not equal in the ability to nurture children.Yes, men are different, in many ways, but that does not mean they can not be viewed as equals. You keep arguing the point, but there is absolutely no real reason that the testimony of one man is more reliable than one woman. You will defend your ancient sheepherder text no matter how wrong it is in a modern society.
Quote They are typically not equal in physical strength. They are typically not equal in the ability to nurture children. what you wrote above was brilliantly written and highlights a vivid point. You made a statement that doesn't say who is stronger or who is a better parent
In-fact you caused an equality to occur by negating equality in different but not clarified ways.Now from your statement above someone trying to fault you could say that you are saying that men are better at nurturing children because people have a tendency to link one easier concept with one a little more difficult.
I want you to think about what you wrote and think of other things in the same way.
God Bless!
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