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Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of Heaven.
This for a start.John 14:2
'In my Father's house are many homes. If it weren't so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you.'
'If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also.'
I would like to hear peoples opinion on this please, thanks.
Who goes there? Some, or all? And what of the Earth?Karmarie: About fifteen years ago I was reading that passage of scripture and decided to break down the greek words and find out a deeper truth that might align with the following scriptures of Jesus and the Father dwelling in mankind. I will paraphrase my findings. One note, the word “mansions” is the same greek word used in v23….we will make our “abode” with him…!
…..In my fathers house(temple) there are many places of abode(to dwell). I go (give my life) and prepare a (dwelling) place in you, Then (after I die) I will come again (manifest anew, in a new form) that where I am (at the right hand of the Father) there you may be also.
further to V17….the spirit of truth (Jesus) which the world (ot religious order) cannot see (understand) neither knoweth him: but ye know him: for he (Jesus, the spirit of truth) dwelleth with you and shall be in you….!
For me these are powerful confirmations that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit of truth live within us and that is their home (temple) or place of abode. They are not off in heaven someplace, they live inside those who accept and believe. Jesus/God/the Spirit are the Kingdom of God within. We are ONE with them. Thats beautiful, IMO, TK
TK, thanks for your input.
I see that, what you are saying.
I really do believe there are two meanings to things (in scripture).Maybe, there are two kingdoms. One on earth now, exactly as you put it,
And one after death.Nice place to be though TK. I like what you wrote. I think I have experienced that as you say, especially just recently, in the past few days.
Here is more on the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt:13:10The disciples came, and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?”
He answered them, “To you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them. For whoever has, to him will be given, and he will have abundance, but whoever doesn't have, from him will be taken away even that which he has.
Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they don't see, and hearing, they don't hear, neither do they understand.
In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says, 'By hearing you will hear, and will in no way understand; Seeing you will see, and will in no way perceive: for this people's heart has grown callous, their ears are dull of hearing, they have closed their eyes; or else perhaps they might perceive with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and should turn again; and I would heal them.'
“But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. For most certainly I tell you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things which you see, and didn't see them; and to hear the things which you hear, and didn't hear them.
And this
Matt:13:36
“He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the children of the Kingdom;
And the darnel weeds are the children of the evil one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil.
The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels.
As therefore the darnel weeds are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field.
“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a dragnet, that was cast into the sea, and gathered some fish of every kind, which, when it was filled, they drew up on the beach. They sat down, and gathered the good into containers, but the bad they threw away.
So will it be in the end of the world. The angels will come forth, and separate the wicked from among the righteous, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.”
Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?” They answered him, “Yes, Lord.” He said to them, “Therefore, every scribe who has been made a disciple in the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a householder, who brings out of his treasure new and old things.”
I know people have their own Bibles to read it, but just put it up, anyway.
Karmarie: For me as I search the NT scriptures I find them pretty much all saying the same thing yet saying it or using wording that brings clairity to it from another angle. IMO there is only one event being set up by God through Jesus. The day of the lord that was prophesied to come, came in Jesus. Jesus is all and is in all. The old testament year of jubilee was a picture of the day of the lord to come with Jesus. All the old testament prophets prophesied of the coming day of the lord, Jesus. Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophets. Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law and Jesus was the fulfillment of the Psalms.
Everything Jesus taught was pertaining to the ending or completion of the old covenant and the establishment of the new covenant. The end of the world is not talking about the end of the “cosmos” or the earth. The prophets were talking about the end of that old world religious order, the old covenant. The new day came in Jesus. The new way came in Jesus. The truth came in Jesus to show those who would believe where God is and how to unite with him. The former Jewish religious order was in sin and darkness. They had lost the way to find God. They had made up inumerable rituals, fasts, prayers, feasts, sabbaths, and many many more ways to connect with God or passify Gods anger. They were in sin/error. They were wrong. They staggered about like drunken men not able to focus and find the truth.
Jesus taught the way to God by believing the word of God/HIM! Hear the spirit/words. The lord(the word of God (Jesus) shall descend(come to earth/people/earthen vessels) in the clouds/spirit with the voice of an archangle(powerful in words) the trump of God. And the dead (those before us without any redemption)will rise first and then we who are alive with truth shall remain for a time until we all meet the Lord in the air/spirit/truth within us and so shall we all ever be in ONE spirit of truth of God forever.
Jesus has come and established everything required of God with his words, given to mankind to take within and become ONE together by accepting and believing.
Please don't let word trip you up when they mostly mean the same thing. A Kingdom is a ruling government. Words are spirit of God/truth or lies/demons/deception/anti-truth. Heaven is spirit, the kingdom of heaven is spiritual rule. Wicked are incorrect doctrines, not people. When the “wicked” are removed by the word of God it is evil doctrines or wrong teachings, anti-truth of God NOT PEOPLE. We have no war with people to find God. We wrestle against spiritual doctrines of evil, wrong thinking, wickeness in high religious places.
Just some thoughts IMO I thought you might find interesting. God bless you, TK
Thanks for that TK.
I have heard it said, that 144000 go to Heaven, and that is what Jesus was speaking about.
And that the rest will be, if they are lucky, in Paradise Earth.
I was wondering what anyone else thought of this, and with what scriptures they have to back it up.
I think it is a Jehova's Witness doctrine. If the Spirit of Truth and your owne God-given discernment haven't informed you as to the truthfulness of this doctrine google for a few hours. Look to Christ Jesus, God within you for an answer. I don't have an opinion on this doctrine. I know it's not of God.
Hi wispring.
I also heard it was a JW doctrine.
Istari and I think Irene also believe this.I started this topic, before I heard what they said (they HAD said it before, but I wasnt really listening).
So, now that I agree with them, I lost interest in this thread
As it goes.So I leave it open to anyone to discuss between yourselves, Im sort of giving Istari the benefit of the doubt with this one.
Karmarie: For help in mental clairity of the truth of God, every time you read the scriptures of the NT when they say Heaven, point to yourself, when they say Kingdom of God, point to yourself, when they say Temple of God, point to yourself, when they refer to the Church of Jesus, point to yourself, you are the body of Jesus/Christ. As Jesus/Christ returns to earth as the Spirit of Truth or the Comforter, it is you he comes to. As you accept Jesus words within your very heart and mind, as your very life blood, Jesus, then, has returned to earth(an earthen body), in bodily form to rule Gods Kingdom in earth…through you! Does God/Jesus/the holy Spirit dwell in you. Yes if you accept and believe! The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither say look over here or look up there,
for the ruler of Gods words is the believer of Gods words through or from Jesus. Gods words make you the perfect son of God to do the works of faith. The annointing of God is within all who accept and believe. Anyone waiting for God to do something more for them have missed the truth of life. Now, you go in his authority/name do work the works of God by faith. Heal the sick, raise the dead,
cast out demons(evil doctrines). Religion chooses to wait on God to do something more. Religion thinks that apparantly Jesus didn't finish the work God gave him to do. If any part of salvation is ineffective or not complete then faith is completely obstructed with impure thinking. I think most don't want to attempt to do the works of Christ because they don't believe it will work. So they use doctrines of future returns of Jesus to do the same things he did teaching us, before! IMO, TK
TK, I do see your point.
Can I ask you, how do you see the world?….Do you feel tearfull whenever you see war and killing, natural disaster, etc?
Karmarie: One thing I try to do in this life and tell my three girls to do in life is not to stick their noses into other peoples business. Many people are here on earth learning and experiencing life in its fullness. Life in fullness means what some might call good and bad or things one likes as compared to things one doesn't particularly like. That type of variable experiencing can only be where forces are split into duality(two opposing forces of one whole). The earths physical composition of duality and relativity is the ultimate place for experience of every possible kind or either side of a whole and to what ever degree one decides to take the experience. We are not here for a test of whether we will do good or evil.
I say all that to somewhat prepare you for my answer to your question. I am a very compassionate person. Yet I understand that people are here on earth creating their own lives by their thoughts/contemplations/meditations/intentions/desires and words from their mouths. Each builds an aura or electromagnetic energy field around themselves that is the average you might say of their total mind esscence.
Whatever a person has created for his life he is living in. I don't believe things just happen accidentally. Over a period of time a person has created a predominate aura esscence of positive energy, full of love or a predominate aura esscence of destruction and negativity full of fear. WHAT EVER SPIRITUAL HOUSE ONE BUILDS, ATTRACTS LIKE ENERGY FROM THE UNIVRSE. Some people are surrounded by fear and destruction of their own making. Some have come to those most dangerous areas to experience that type of life. Life is much bigger than many minds can accept. I am only trying to give you a broader viewpoint of pain and suffering.
You along with everyone on this site have been called to learn and build your house/life. If some build their house with a belief that there should be sickness, pain and suffering they will tend to experience that frequency of energy in their life. Jesus didn't heal all the sick people! Jesus did heal all who came to him in faith to receive their cleansing.
If you built a strong, positive, loving, peaceful, kind, totally God blessed aura around you and saw the world as peaceful and kind and loving place, thereby creating a banquet table in your life, you will be able to give to many and help many, but not all! If you spend time looking outside your immediate life arena, to find fears and suffering be careful and wise, because if you begin to accept that as a possibility for your life it will come to you. After all, in a disaster when many are killed and few survive who do you shed the tear for? The ones killed now have no pain and suffering and continue on in another life. So you must be shedding the tear for the survivors! Just a thought. IMO, TK
To all,
The Kingdom of heaven is the reign of God and can mean different things in different situation though it is always speaking of being under the reign of God.
For example those who walk according to the Spirit are under the reign of God but they are not in the heavens even though the latter is also under the reign of God.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ April 27 2011,12:43) The ones killed now have no pain and suffering and continue on in another life. So you must be shedding the tear for the survivors! Just a thought. IMO, TK
Thats a good point, I guess thats true, its the ones left behind who are still suffering.So Kerwin, do you believe so many will go to Heaven and so many will be on a paradise earth (after the resurection)?
Quote (karmarie @ April 27 2011,13:11) So Kerwin, do you believe so many will go to Heaven and so many will be on a paradise earth (after the resurection)?
I do not believe such a tenet.I am prone to believe we will be like angels and able to travel between the different realms of God.
I cannot say that either belief is anything but speculation as as far as I know scripture remains silent on that issue.
edited to correct mistypes and dropped words.
Kerwin, thats an interesting thing. It does say the saved ones will be like the Angels of Heaven. Thanks for that thought.
Karmarie, there is heaven/spirit and earth/physicality. God is heaven/spirit/! Earth is created within God for there is no outside of God. There is only outer darkness. No lite. No life!
You are not “trying” to get to “heaven”. You came from heaven and you will return to heaven. It is very likely you have done this process inumerable times, over eons of time.
Religion has made us small. God made us magnificent! In his likeness we are. The mind is the cleansing area. You can think big or small, it is your choice. Any way one chooses to think is his or her personal desire. God has laid out the truth to us by his own words, directly from Jesus of who and what we are. Our greatness has been diminished by lies and untruth. People who have been duped to believe and teach a submisive follow the leader, do this don't do that mentality of untruth and deception. What a shame! Now is the time. Now is the greatest freedom of choice a being can have.
Think big and make your father proud. Hold your head up as a son of God and believe all things, believe all good things, endure all if any bad things but set your sites on love/good/happy/fun/exciting etc. Things full of life, not fear. Stand tall knowing who you are yet giving the same to all who will accept. Not what you make up of your self but what God/Jesus have made you to be. What they say, goes! It is enough that the student be as the teacher. We have been made equal with the greater, shall we turn that down or reject that truth so we can and grovel in the pit? Only religious people will do that!
You are an eternal being made of God. God is all there is. Everything came from God that is, for there is nothing else to come from. When you release from this physical body you are in heaven/spirit. At what ever level of enlightenment you are mentally, that is where you will be in heaven. The esscence of you/your mind/thoughts/beliefs/understanding/perceptions go with you in spirit. The physical body is a much lower frequency energy that can be taken with if one is enlightenened like Jesus and is able on earth to transform and transfigure himself at will on earth. Keeping the physical body or elevating its energetic frequency to spirit or light is somewhat limiting to the unlimited free spirit of Christ.
A true NT Bible study exalts the listener to a very high energy point. The truth is loaded with the power of love. Great excitement should arise in every heart as they read the truth from God. If that is not the case, they have misunderstood and misinterpreted the truth. I do not intend any negative toward you Karmarie, this is just what I have been given to say this morning. God bless you, TK
Karmaria!
Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
That is what I believe Gods kingdom is. And those that inherit this Kingdom will have to be Spirit Beings, because God and Jesus is as bright as the sun. The meek will inherit the earth.
after Jesus has put all under Him, Jesus too will give all back to God, so God can be all in all.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Do I believe that Jesus preexisted, I say this much, 50 Scriptures indicate that. Is it 100% sure, time will tell.,..
Peace Irene
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