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Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 08 2009,00:58) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,19:25) Well actually, no offense, but I do not see anywhere I need to explain anywhere or anything to a Jew or anyone else for the matter.
Hi brother Const.,
That is a suicide on the part of any religious person. That proves the words of Karl Marx on religion being the Opium.
God saves I do not.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 08 2009,01:05) Hi Con,
1 Peter 3.15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1Peter 3:15I gave gollamudi my answer and he/she only focused on my first paragraph.
Quote Well actually, no offense, but I do not see anywhere I need to explain anywhere or anything to a Jew or anyone else for the matter. If a Jew is Anti-Messianic then that is what he is. I am not on this earth to argue genealogy with anyone.
Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, [are] they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And [there were] wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually. 2Chronicles 12:15
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Matthew 3:9
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do]. 1Timothy 1:4
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. Titus 3:9
Let the Anti-Messianics argue his lineage on the day of his return. I am sure his word will be final.
Also he was the only one resurrected and taken up with many witnesses, lineage or not thats enough proof for me that he is the Messiah!
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1Peter 3:15
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions[/B], rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do]. 1Timothy 1:4
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. Titus 3:9
Hi brother Const.,
That is not the answer you give to a Jew. Infact the verses quoted by you on endless genealogies were also quoted by a Jew as per my first post. Gospel writers like Matthew and Luke also used such genealogies to prove Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. But they often lack evidence in the Jewish scriptures. so blame them if you would like to.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 08 2009,01:05) Hi Con,
1 Peter 3.15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1Peter 3:15sanctify–hallow; honor as holy, enshrining Him in your hearts. So in the Lord's Prayer, Mat 6:9 . God's holiness is thus glorified in our hearts as the dwelling-place of His Spirit.
the Lord God–The oldest manuscripts read “Christ.” Translate, “Sanctify Christ as Lord.”
and–Greek, “but,” or “moreover.” Besides this inward sanctification of God in the heart, be also ready always to give, &c.
answer–an apologetic answer defending your faith.
To every man that asketh you–The last words limit the universality of the “always”; not to a roller, but to everyone among the heathen who inquires honestly.
a reason–a reasonable account. This refutes Rome's dogma, “I believe it, because the Church believes it.” Credulity is believing without evidence; faith is believing on evidence. There is no repose for reason itself but in faith. This verse does not impose an obligation to bring forward a learned proof and logical defense of revelation. But as believers deny themselves, crucify the world, and brave persecution, they must be buoyed up by some strong “hope”; men of the world, having no such hope themselves, are moved by curiosity to ask the secret of this hope; the believer must be ready to give an experimental account “how this hope arose in him, what it contains, and on what it rests” [STEIGER].
with–The oldest manuscripts read, “but with.” Be ready, but with “meekness.” Not pertly and arrogantly.
meekness– ( 1Pe 3:4 ). The most effective way; not self-sufficient impetuosity.
fear–due respect towards man, and reverence towards God, remembering His cause does not need man's hot temper to uphold it.
Jamieson, Fausset & Brown
Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 08 2009,02:32) Hi brother Const.,
That is not the answer you give to a Jew. Infact the verses quoted by you on endless genealogies were also quoted by a Jew as per my first post. gospel writers like Matthew and Luke also used such genealogies to prove Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. But they often lack evidence in the Jewish scriptures. so blame them if you would like to.
If I fight legalities with legalities then I am no better than the pharasee who may be a hypocrate. I teach the resurrection that is my proof. The resurrection is why he is king. No other Messiah has resurrected, past, present, nor future. I do not need to argue geneology over that. And yes I can speak to a Jew this way.If Jesus did not meet the Geneologies, if Jesus did not meet the Prophecies, or if Jesus did not meet any other requirements sent forth by the early writers of the scriptures, then he is not the Messiah, and if he is not the Messiah, then he would not have been resurrected.
See the glitch?
He was resurrected, unless you deny that.
Preach the resurrection, you preach the Messiah.
Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 08 2009,16:32) Hi brother Const.,
That is not the answer you give to a Jew. Infact the verses quoted by you on endless genealogies were also quoted by a Jew as per my first post. Gospel writers like Matthew and Luke also used such genealogies to prove Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. But they often lack evidence in the Jewish scriptures. so blame them if you would like to.
I just pointed out that the Jews are the ones who lack evidence to prove their case their Jesus is not the Anointed One as their claim that the Messiah has to be a son of Solomon is weak at best. He can certainly not come from the line of the King of Judah without making Jeremiah a false prophet.In the last argument argument you advanced for the Jews they claimed that the promise of the Messiah did not include a condition and yet Solomon stated explicitly that it did. That makes the Jewish spin an untruth, unless I am misunderstanding what their premise is.
Then there is the account in Ezekiel they are citing about what the prince is to do. Ezekiel prophesied while the Jews were still in exile in Babylon before the second temple was rebuilt. Reading the scripture which mention sacrifice I am pretty sure he was speaking of the time of the second temple and thus the prince he mentions was not the Anointed One.
To all,
I vaguely remember a scripture that seems to prophesy that the Anointed One will have no children but I cannot find it. If anyone does know of it please cite the location. Thank you.
Quote To all, I vaguely remember a scripture that seems to prophesy that the Anointed One will have no children but I cannot find it. If anyone does know of it please cite the location. Thank you.
I don't recollect that, but it be find to find it out, my next task.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,18:41) Quote To all, I vaguely remember a scripture that seems to prophesy that the Anointed One will have no children but I cannot find it. If anyone does know of it please cite the location. Thank you.
I don't recollect that, but it be find to find it out, my next task.
Please take in consideration my memory is not reliably accurate.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,23:15) If Jesus did not meet the Geneologies, if Jesus did not meet the Prophecies, or if Jesus did not meet any other requirements sent forth by the early writers of the scriptures, then he is not the Messiah, and if he is not the Messiah, then he would not have been resurrected. See the glitch?
He was resurrected, unless you deny that.
Preach the resurrection, you preach the Messiah.
Can you show me one scripture that states that the messiah had to meet any prophecy at all?Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:03) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,23:15) If Jesus did not meet the Geneologies, if Jesus did not meet the Prophecies, or if Jesus did not meet any other requirements sent forth by the early writers of the scriptures, then he is not the Messiah, and if he is not the Messiah, then he would not have been resurrected. See the glitch?
He was resurrected, unless you deny that.
Preach the resurrection, you preach the Messiah.
Can you show me one scripture that states that the messiah had to meet any prophecy at all?
BD,Do you agree with this?
The Charge of Distortion of Jewish and Christian Scriptures
by Prof. Abdullah Saeed
Publication: The Muslim World. Vol. 92
Publication Date: 2002A significant point of tension between today’s Muslims and the ‘People of the Book’ (Jews and Christians) is the common Muslim belief that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are corrupted and cannot be relied upon in any matters of faith, religion or law. Although this is a popular view, most classical scholars of the Qur’an were far more cautious in their understanding of Qur’anic texts on this issue. This article explores the Qur’an’s references to distortion of scriptural meaning and text, and the views of scholars, particularly Tabari, Qurtubi, Razi, Ibn Taymiyya and Qutb. Qur’anic words such as tahrif are popularly accepted today as referring to deliberate distortion of scripture; however, classical scholars have interpreted the Qur’an’s references in a number of different ways. Almost all suggested that distortion occurred mainly through interpretation and not in the text itself. Although the Qur’an refers to tahrif (distortion), it also exhibits the utmost respect for previous scriptures. Early Muslims adopted a narrow view of scripture, partly because of the nature of the Qur’an, and also in response to the more established religions of Judaism and Christianity, to assert the ‘purity’ of the Qur’an and Islam. Saeed notes that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are, according to most scholars, largely unchanged since the time of Muhammad and should be respected now as they were then.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 09 2009,12:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:03) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,23:15) If Jesus did not meet the Geneologies, if Jesus did not meet the Prophecies, or if Jesus did not meet any other requirements sent forth by the early writers of the scriptures, then he is not the Messiah, and if he is not the Messiah, then he would not have been resurrected. See the glitch?
He was resurrected, unless you deny that.
Preach the resurrection, you preach the Messiah.
Can you show me one scripture that states that the messiah had to meet any prophecy at all?
BD,Do you agree with this?
The Charge of Distortion of Jewish and Christian Scriptures
by Prof. Abdullah Saeed
Publication: The Muslim World. Vol. 92
Publication Date: 2002A significant point of tension between today’s Muslims and the ‘People of the Book’ (Jews and Christians) is the common Muslim belief that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are corrupted and cannot be relied upon in any matters of faith, religion or law. Although this is a popular view, most classical scholars of the Qur’an were far more cautious in their understanding of Qur’anic texts on this issue. This article explores the Qur’an’s references to distortion of scriptural meaning and text, and the views of scholars, particularly Tabari, Qurtubi, Razi, Ibn Taymiyya and Qutb. Qur’anic words such as tahrif are popularly accepted today as referring to deliberate distortion of scripture; however, classical scholars have interpreted the Qur’an’s references in a number of different ways. Almost all suggested that distortion occurred mainly through interpretation and not in the text itself. Although the Qur’an refers to tahrif (distortion), it also exhibits the utmost respect for previous scriptures. Early Muslims adopted a narrow view of scripture, partly because of the nature of the Qur’an, and also in response to the more established religions of Judaism and Christianity, to assert the ‘purity’ of the Qur’an and Islam. Saeed notes that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are, according to most scholars, largely unchanged since the time of Muhammad and should be respected now as they were then.
I have reverence for all the words of God and while I understand that there has been distortions I believe the overall content and context remains the same.I am not oppose to any words of God whether written or oral as either can become distorted. I am reminded when Jesus said to Peter “get behind me Satan” and yet Jesus made Peter his successor and so by seeing this it is quite possible to comprehend that in a line of successors corruption can occur but that does not mean all in the line are corrupt.
Anyone who appeals to God directly may receive assistance and revelation therefore Martin Luther could have received assistance to create protestantism and yet the CC could also be equivacated with them in general belief for their is not much difference.
In hinduism there are levels of belief the farther away someone is from God the more they are polytheistic and the closer they are to God the more monotheistic they become they strive to go from Ignorance to God consciousness and even Krishna whom they compare Christ to is called the supreme personality of Godhead so for their benefit they can see God in a person but the practitioner who wishes to go beyond that realizes that God is transcendent of all forms.
In the Bible it is told God is a Spirit worship Him in spirit and truth therefor the physical form that God dwelled in(Jesus) ultimately should not be worshipped as it is still polytheism and ultimately God dwells in all those who believe so worshiping Jesus one would have to also worship all others whom God is dwelling if that is their belief.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,17:03) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,23:15) If Jesus did not meet the Geneologies, if Jesus did not meet the Prophecies, or if Jesus did not meet any other requirements sent forth by the early writers of the scriptures, then he is not the Messiah, and if he is not the Messiah, then he would not have been resurrected. See the glitch?
He was resurrected, unless you deny that.
Preach the resurrection, you preach the Messiah.
Can you show me one scripture that states that the messiah had to meet any prophecy at all?
Divrei Nevuah – Bear FruitA prophecy refers to the message that has been communicated to a prophet which the prophet then communicates to others. Usually the foreknowledge of future events, though it may sometimes apply to past events of which there is no memory, and to present hidden things which cannot be known by the natural light of reason.
Here is a Prophecy, of all the Prophets who fulfilled this one so far?
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2
Here is another Prophecy, of all the Prophets who fulfilled this one so far?
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. Jeremiah 23:5
Here is another Prophecy, of all the Prophets who fulfilled this one so far?
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Isaiah Chapter 53
Divrei Nevuah Shalom Bodhitharta
Hi All:
And here are some other prophecies, that show that the Messiah has already come.
Quote Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I [was] speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. Dan 9:22 And he informed [me], and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew [thee]; for thou [art] greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Dan 9:24 ¶ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel in interpreting Nebuchanezzar's dream states:
Quote Dan 2:36 ¶ This [is] the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou [art] this head of gold.
Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Dan 2:42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
He states that in the days of these kings, God will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed. The kings were Babylonia, Greece, Media/Persia, and Rome.
Love in Christ,
MartyTo all,
I believe I am mistaken about that prophecy since Psalms 109 appears to be the bases of my memory and I now believe it disagrees with what I remember.
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