The jewish messiah

Participant

Adam,

My point is that you are biased against Christianity and so accept what those who accuse it state without actually testing their words. I am speaking in general as you do not consistently do that. There are just simply too many false accusations to address them all. The bottom line is that either you believe God or you do not.

As for me being biased for Christianity I cannot say as there are many doctrines that claim to be Christian and only one can be and is from God. I would rather declare I am biased toward belief in God and therefore believe that he has spoken to us through the prophets, apostles, Jesus, and other means throughout the ages. Since I believe it is so it follows that his words do not contradict one another and so I seek for interpretations that do not contradict and are consistent with his righteous nature.

If you ask me what draws me to believe in God then I will declare it to be my desire to stop sinning at this moment as I regret the wrong I do to others, to myself, and to God.

My challenge is for you to find it in yourself to likewise be driven to desire to stop sinning instantly and to persist in that desire because God can and will fulfill it at the proper time.

As far as I know Jesus was not just speaking of just pre exile times but rather a broad overview of history. My reasons for favoring the interpretation of his words are they do not cause a conflict in scripture and use scripture mixed with Jewish history to connect Zachariah the prophet to the one Jesus speaks of.

These Historians and critics you boast of have been shown to be in error and therefore not creditable enough to disprove scripture. You need to discover creditable witnesses who know what they speak of and can interpret scripture honestly.

An interesting tidbit about historians is they argue about what happened in living history. Why do you think they would be any more accurate about ancient history when they have less evidence to support their conclusions? Critics by definition have an eye to finding fault and are seldom unbiased.

December 11, 2010 at 8:14 am#228462

Participant

Laurel,

This thread is about Jesus being the Messiah prophecized of in the Old Testament and our discussion is the Law of Mosses v the Spirit of God. I answer you in a new thread I am labeling Legalism vs The Spirit Part 1 and subtitled About the Sabbath. Please joing me there. I hope other interested parties do to.

December 11, 2010 at 9:55 pm#228544

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,22:41)

Quote

To all,

I vaguely remember a scripture that seems to prophesy that the Anointed One will have no children but I cannot find it. If anyone does know of it please cite the location. Thank you.

I don't recollect that, but it be find to find it out, my next task.

Here is the requirement for the King of Judah and Yisra'el. It does not say anything abbout children here.

14 “When you come to the land which יהוה your Elohim is giving you, and shall possess it and shall dwell in it, and you shall say, ‘Let me set a sovereign over me like all the gentiles that are around me,’ 15 you shall certainly set a sovereign over you whom יהוה your Elohim shall choose. Set a sovereign over you from among your brothers, you are not allowed to set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.
16 “Only, he is not to increase horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Mitsrayim to increase horses, for יהוה has said to you, ‘Do not return that way again.’ 17 “And he is not to increase wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor is he to greatly increase silver and gold for himself.
18 “And it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his reign, that he shall write for himself a copy of this Torah in a book, from the one before the priests, the Lĕwites. 19 “And it shall be with him, and he shall read it all the days of his life, so that he learns to fear יהוה his Elohim and guard all the Words of this Torah and these laws, to do them, 20 so that his heart is not lifted up above his brothers, and so as not to turn aside from the command, right or left, so that he prolongs his days in his reign, he and his children, in the midst of Yisra’ĕl.

December 11, 2010 at 10:00 pm#228545

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 11 2010,08:19)

To all! The old covenant is

Exd 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

About the Sabbath

Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

PAUL tells us that

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Now if some like Laurel wants to keep the Sabbath that is fine, however She should never judge those who do not keep it, and keep another day….or every day alike.

The New covenant in

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus also magnified the KLaw on the Sermon on the Mount and made it Spiritual.
Then He gave us the great commandmdnt in

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

We are under grace

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

also

Rom 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Of course that does not give us any reason to sin, so grace may be abound….God forbid Paul says….

Peace and love Irene

To all:
Baker does not understand what truth is. According to The Word…. Here are “THREE TRUE WITNESSES” for you all.

Exo. 12:49 “There is one Torah for the native-born and for the stranger who sojourns among you.”

and

Numbers 15: 14 ‘And when a stranger sojourns with you, or whoever is among you throughout your generations, and would make an offering made by fire, a sweet fragrance to יהוה, as you do, so he does. 15 ‘One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. 16 ‘One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.’ ”

and

Numbers 15: 27 ‘And if a being sins by mistake, then he shall bring a female goat a year old as a sin offering. 28 ‘And the priest shall make atonement for the being who strays by mistake, when he sins by mistake before יהוה, to make atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him. 29 ‘For him who does [whatever] by mistake there is one Torah, both for him who is native among the children of Yisra’ĕl and for the stranger who sojourns in their midst.
30 ‘But the being who does [whatever] defiantly, whether he is native or a stranger, he reviles יהוה, and that being shall be cut off from among his people. 31 ‘Because he has despised the word of יהוה, and has broken His command, that being shall certainly be cut off, his crookedness is upon him.’ ”

December 11, 2010 at 10:03 pm#228546

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2010,18:14)

Laurel,

This threat is about Jesus being the Messiah prophecized of in the Old Testiment and our discussion is the Law of Mosses v the Spirit of God. I answer you in a new thread I am labeling Legalism vs The Spirit Part 1 and subtitled About the Sabbath. Please joing me there. I hope other interested parties do to.

Good. The Messiah Yahushua taught us to keep the Torah commands. This is the true Messiah.

There is another one as i can see on this thread who teaches another Messiah and another Torah, another covenant, and another Good News.

The spirit of the anti-Messiah.

December 11, 2010 at 10:10 pm#228547

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2010,18:10)

Adam,

If you ask me what draws me to believe in God then I will declare it to be my desire to stop sinning at this moment as I regret the wrong I do to others, to myself, and to God.

My challenge is for you to find it in yourself to likewise be driven to desire to stop sinning instantly and to persist in that desire because God can and will fulfill it at the proper time.

Kerwin,
It is good that you do not want to sin, therefore one needs the Torah to understand exactly what sin is. One can not know they need salvation until they know they are sinning. When we see it with our own eyes and hear it with our own ears, who can tells us otherwise, our hearts are convicted of truth.

Torah is right and good and teaches us what is right and acceptable behavior toward YHWH Elohim. When YHWH wrote the 10 Words on 2 tablets of stone it was so that we would know that those words were forever and ever even unto His kingdom. No man can add nor diminish from YHWH's own written words!

There is a huge difference bewteen obedience and legalisim.

December 12, 2010 at 10:07 am#228595

Participant

The following arguments taken from the book “he Grounds of Christianity Examined by Comparing The New Testament with the Old”

“At a certain time, (says he,) a certain learned man of the wise men of the Christians said
unto me:— ‘Wherefore are you Jews unwilling to believe Jesus of Nazareth to be the
Messiah, when yet your veritable prophets testified of him, whose words you profess to
have faith in.’
“ I gave him this answer. ‘How, I require, could we believe him to be the Messiah, when
you can produce no genuine proof from the prophets in his favour, since all those things
adduced by the evangelists from them, to prove Jesus the Messiah, are nothing to the
purpose ? And we have many and evident reasons to prove that he was not the Messiah.
And of these, I will bring forward a few, arising, 1, From his genealogy. 2. From his
works. 3. From the time of his appearing. 4. From the prophecies of the things to take
place in the time of the Messiah not having seen fulfilled in his age. And in these things
are contained the genuine marks characteristic of our Messiah.’

“1. As to what concerns his genealogy; it does not prove this necessary thing, that Jesus
was the son of David, because he was not begotten by Joseph, as the Gospel of Matthew
testifies; for in the first chapter of it, it is written, that Jesus was born of Mary when she
was yet a virgin, and had not been known by Joseph; which things being so, the
genealogy of Joseph has nothing to do with Jesus. The descent and origin of Mary, is still
less known, but it seems from Luke’s calling Elizabeth, who was of Levi, her cousin, that
Mary was of the tribe of Levi, and not of Judah, and, consequently, not of David; and, if
she were, still Jesus is not the more the son of David; descents being reckoned from the
males only. Neither is the genealogy of Joseph rightly deduced from David, but labours
under great difficulties. Matthew, and Luke also, not only disagree, but irreconcilably
and flatly contradict each other, in their genealogies of Joseph. Now, it cannot be that the
testimony of two witnesses, who directly contradict each other in the matter to be proved
by them, can be received as true. But the prophets have directed us to expect no Messiah
but one born of the seed of David.

“ 2. As to the works of Jesus, we object to what he said concerning himself:— ‘Do not
consider me as come to establish peace on earth, for I have come to send a sword, and to
separate the son from the father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter-inlaw
from her mother-in-law,’ which words are written in Mat. ch. x. But we find the
prophecies concerning the Messiah to attribute to him very different works from these;
nay, the very opposite. For, whereas Jesus testifies concerning himself, that he did not
come to establish peace in the earth, but ‘division,’ ‘fire’ and ‘sword,’ Zechariah says,
concerning the expected Messiah, ch. ix.:—‘He shall speak peace to the nations.’ Jesus
says he came to send ‘fire and sword’ upon the earth, but Micah says, ch. ii., that in the
times of the true Messiah they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears
into pruning hooks, nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn
war any more.’ Jesus says that he came ‘to put division between the father and the son,’
&c. But in the time of the true Messiah, Elias, the prophet, shall come, of whom Malachi
prophecied ‘that he shall convert the heart of the fathers unto the children, and the heart
of the children to the fathers.’ Jesus says ‘that he came to serve others, not to be served
by them’ – Mat. xx. 29. But of the true Messiah it is said, Psalm lxxii.:— ‘All kings shall
bow themselves before him, all nations shall serve him.’ The same also is said by
Zechariah, ch. ix. :— ‘His dominion shall be, from one sea to the other, and from the
river unto the ends of the earth;’ and so Dan., ch. vii.:— ‘All dominions shall serve and
obey him.’

“3. As to the time, we object to the Christians, that Jesus did not come at the time
designated by the prophets; for the prophets testify, that the coming of the Messiah
should be ‘in the end of days’ or, in the latter days, (which, surely, have not yet arrived)
as it is in Isaiah ch. ii. :— ‘It shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of
the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and all nations shall
flow unto it;’ and it immediately follows, concerning the king Messiah, ‘that he shall
judge among the nations, and rebuke many peoples, and they shall beat their words into
ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks.’ See also Hosea, ch. iii, and also Dan.,
ch. ii., where it is written :— ‘God hath made known unto king Nebuchadnezzar what
shall come to pass in the latter days,’ (or, in the end of days.) And this pertains to what
follows, viz., to this:— ‘In the days of those kings, (i. e., of the kingdoms that arose out
of the ruins of the Roman Empire) the God of heaven will raise up a kingdom, which
shall never be destroyed.’ Thus you see, that the prophets predicted, that the kingdom of
the Messiah should be after the destruction of the Roman Empire, not while it was in its
vigour; when Jesus came; in ‘the latter days,’ and not before.*

“ 4. Besides all these difficulties, neither were the promises made to us by the prophets,
concerning the things to come to pass at the coming of the Messiah, fulfilled in the time
of Jesus. For examples, take the following:— ‘1. In the time of the king Messiah, there
was to be one kingdom only, and one only king upon earth, viz., the king Messiah—see
Daniel, ch. ii.; but behold, we see with our eyes, many independent kingdoms, distinct,
and distinguished by different laws and customs, religious and political, which things
being so, it follows, that the Messiah is not yet come.
“ 2. In the time of the king Messiah, there was to be only one religion and one law
throughout the world; for, it is written in Isaiah, ch. lii. and lxvi., that all nations shall
come at stated times to worship the Eternal at Jerusalem. See also Zechariah, ch. xiv. and
ch. viii., and indeed throughout the writings of the prophets.
“3. In the time of the king Messiah, idols were to be cut off, and utterly to perish from the
earth; as it is said in Zechariah, ch. xiii., and so in Isaiah, ch. ii., it is written, ‘And the
glory of idols shall utterly pass away;’ and so in Zephaniah, ch. ii., ‘The Lord shall be
terrible among them, when he shall make lean (i. e., bring to nothing) all the gods of the
earth; and all the countries of the nations shall bow themselves to Him, each out of his
place.’
“4. In the times of the Messiah, there shall obtain no more sins and crimes in the earth,
especially among the children of Israel, as is affirmed in Deut. xxx., Zephaniah, ch. iii
and in Jeremiah, ch. iii. And l., and so in Ezekiel, ch. xxxvi. and xxxvii.

“5. In the times of the Messiah, there shall be peace between man and beast, and between
the tiger and the tame beast; and the little child shall stroke, with impunity, the variegated
skin of the serpent, and,— as one of our own poets has beautifully said,— ‘and with his
forked tongue shall innocently play.’ See in Isaiah, ch. xi. and lxv., the original from
whence he derived his beautiful poem.

“6. In the time of the king Messiah, there are to be no calamities, no afflictions, no
lamentations throughout the world. But the inhabitants thereof are to lead joyful lives in
gratitude to the good God, and in the enjoyment of his bounties. See Isaiah lxv.
* The reader is requested to consider the reasoning in the last paragraph. The prophecy in the second
chapter of Da
niel, is commonly supposed to relate to the four Great Empires, the Babylonian, Persian,
Grecian and Roman. This last, it is (according to this interpretation,) foretold, should be divided into many
kingdoms, and that ‘in the latter days of these kingdoms,’ (which are now subsisting) God would set up a
kingdom which would never be destroyed,—that of the Messiah. Of course, according to this interpretation,
the kingdom of the Messiah was not to be not only sustain after the destruction of the Roman Empire, but
not till the latter days of the kingdoms which grew up out of its ruins; whereas, Jesus was born in the time
of Augustus, i. e., precisely when the Roman Empire itself was in the highest of its splendour and vigour.
This is a remarkable, and very striking, repugnance, to the claims of the New Testament, and, if
substantiated, must overset them entirely.—E.

“Lastly. In the time of the king Messiah, the glory of God was again to return to Israel,
and the spirit of the most High God was to be liberally poured out upon them, and they
were to be endowed with the spirit of prophecy, and with wisdom, and knowledge, and
understanding, and virtue; and God will no more hide his face from them; but will bless
them, and give them a ready heart and a willing mind to obey his laws, and enjoy the
felicities consequent thereupon. And the Shechinah shall inhabit the temple for ever, and
the glory of God shall never depart from Israel; but they shall walk amid the splendours
of the glory of the Eternal, and all the earth shall resound with his praise, as is written in
Ezekiel, ch. xxxvii., and xxxix., and xliii.; and in Joel, ch. ii., and in Zech., ch. ii., and
Isaiah, ch. xi., and throughout the latter part of his prophecies, and in Jer. xxxi.”

December 12, 2010 at 5:04 pm#228628

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 12 2010,20:07)

The following arguments taken from the book “he Grounds of Christianity Examined by Comparing The New Testament with the Old”

“6. In the time of the king Messiah, there are to be no calamities, no afflictions, no
lamentations throughout the world. But the inhabitants thereof are to le
ad joyful lives in
gratitude to the good God, and in the enjoyment of his bounties. See Isaiah lxv.
* The reader is requested to consider the reasoning in the last paragraph. The prophecy in the second
chapter of Daniel, is commonly supposed to relate to the four Great Empires, the Babylonian, Persian,
Grecian and Roman. This last, it is (according to this interpretation,) foretold, should be divided into many
kingdoms, and that ‘in the latter days of these kingdoms,’ (which are now subsisting) God would set up a
kingdom which would never be destroyed,—that of the Messiah. Of course, according to this interpretation,
the kingdom of the Messiah was not to be not only sustain after the destruction of the Roman Empire, but
not till the latter days of the kingdoms which grew up out of its ruins; whereas, Jesus was born in the time
of Augustus, i. e., precisely when the Roman Empire itself was in the highest of its splendour and vigour.
This is a remarkable, and very striking, repugnance, to the claims of the New Testament, and, if
substantiated, must overset them entirely.—E.

Yahushua's mother was a Jew from David. Her lineage is found in Matt.1. Joseph's lineage “her husband” is in Luke.
In Matthew this Joseph is the “father” of Mariam, not the “husband.” If this isn't true, then there are not 14 generations in this segment, but 13, and this whole section can be dismissed. It was a bad translation by those ignorant scribes who copied from another translation and another translation from the original Hebrew language. Yes it was originally written in Hebrew according to Josephus and Shem Tov's “Eben Bochan.”

All the rest of these so called proofs listed are valid, BUT they are all in relation to the time when the Messiah returns as Judge, and finally King. Only when the Messiah returns to fulfill the Fall Feasts will these things be accomplished.

How can anyone, even a Jew dismiss the fact that Yahushua Messiah DID fulfill the Spring Feasts. The Christians know nothing of this because they reject the Torah. But i do agree on pne point, the Greek Jesus IS NOT the Hebrew Yahushua. The doctrines that come with the name jesus are a cover-up to the original, like painting another face over the Mona Lisa. You can say, “This is Monica Liza” but the Mona Lisa is still under that layer of new paint just as perfect as when she was originally painted.

When Yahushua Messiah was born He lived to complete the prophecies found in The Spring Feasts of YHWH, which He did accomplish, to the letter, the year, the day, the hour, the minute, and the second; in every detail. The Fall Feasts will not be accomplished until His return to gather Yisra'el from the four corners of the earth unto the Kingdom of The Promise.

There is much to be accomplished in the meanwhile. The world is not ready for His return today. Many prophecies must be completed such as the destruction of Damascus, and Zachariah's nuclear war etc..

I for one can attest to the division between mother and daughter which comes because of the Messiah Yahushua. My daughter is married to a sun-worshipping christian. They celebrate pagan holy days and think that the commands were done away with.

My sons and i keep the Sabbath and YAH's Holy Days, and we also know Yahuhsua is the Messiah. My sons and i are separated from my daughter because of our differrences. I do not mean that we do not love one another. We are all still very close, but our different beliefs can cause grief at times. I am HORRIFIED that my daughter took my grandaughter to see satan claws, and my daughter said she cried and screamed. Children just know!

Also at times my daughter has called in tears because of the confusion that is in her heart. She wants to worship our ABBA the way we do, but she is married to a man who she must serve in another way.

Then there is my own mother. There have been times whe she has been outright mean and almost evil towards me. She does keep the Sabbath but it was very hard for her to come to terms with how the Messiah fulfilled Passover according to Scripture, and NOT according to the pagan Ashterot/Easter. There were periods of weeks that she was so angry that she would not speak to me. Looking back now she a much humbler and kind person and appreciates life more. She does understand the Passover and has since rejected the pagan holy days of x-mas and easter. Now when we disagree, things do not get as heated up, we love one another no matter what.

One by one Ephrayim is being plucked out from among the gentiles and returning to YHWH ELohim, their first love, and every time this happens there are divisions between families and friends.

CHristians think the world hates them because of their beliefs, but the truth is chrisitanity rules the world. It is thos who came out of Babel whom the world really does reject, people like myself. I do not fit in anywhere but with YHWH ELohim and Yahushua Messiah. The Jews reject me and the christians reject me, my friends reject me and my family rejects me. I have been ridiculed by my own sister publically just for standing up for the commands and proclaiming to her that adultery is wrong, and i will have no part in adultry. She hates me because she lives with a man and is not married, and she felt personally attacked when i told her i would not commit adultry, then i suppose she thought i was self rightous. OY VEY!

December 12, 2010 at 5:25 pm#228632

Participant

Hi Laurel Shalom,
Thanks for you personal sharing here. Don't worry I am also with you even I am hated by many brothers here and in my personal life. I do believe in my heart Yahushua is my Messiah and Yahweh is my Elohim. But I still have doubts on N.T which deviated from O.T in many aspects. I am bringing such material on N.T to redact and separate fact from fiction. I don't agree with you on Matthew's genealogy being of Mary. In fact both Matthew and Luke gave the genealogy of Joseph which is immaterial for us when he has not contributed for Jesus' birth. Regards to other unfulfilled prophecies Christianity's safe answer of second coming has no role in Jewish Messiah. It is purely the invention of Christianity to cover up Jesus failed promises of establishing God's kingdom in his own generation. Please think over.

Love and peace to you
Adam

December 13, 2010 at 2:25 am#228663

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 13 2010,03:25)

Love and peace to you
Adam

Adam,
Then no one ever explained to you how Yahushua Messiah fulfilled the Spring Feasts?

Once you learn that, you'll see how the Fall Feast are yet to be fulfilled, and the book of Revelations will begin to make sense to you.

I agree that through many translations we have some inconsistancies in the Brit Chodesh writings (renewed covenant) but fot the most part they are still intact.

There are some mistakes when speaking of the Biblical Holy Days since the translators “thought” they were done away with and never kept them themselves, so they didn't comprehend some things and translated the best they could, because even their translation contradicts itself.

Another mistake, which is a huge one, which also contradicts their own translation is the name by where we are baptized. On every occasion where a person was baptised they used the name Yahushua which is to say YHWH is salvation. There is one spot that says to baptize “in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. If that is true, then all the recorded baptisims were done wrong because they only baptised in the name Yahushua. Therefore there was some “added text” which is consistant with some of the oldest records.

About Joseph's lineage, it is impossible that both Matthew and Luke are of Joseph's because they use different names and in Luke there are MANY more generations.

December 13, 2010 at 5:32 am#228681

Participant

Adam,

You state “Yahushua is my Messiah and Yahweh is my Elohim” and yet do not believe those who testify of him. You instead choose to believe those who claim Yahushua is not the Anointed and Elohim does not exist. Your actions are not agreeing with your words.

Unbelievers do not understand scripture correctly as they have an unrighteous point of view. Believers understand that scripture is consistent with God’s nature and he does not change. To interpret scripture correctly the final a believer realizes that everything that God states agrees with anything else he states so any contradiction come up with is a misunderstanding. Unbelievers on the other hand will not necessary see it the same way but will see contradictions as evidence supporting their beliefs.

If you truly believe then you will strive to have the point of view of a believer and not an unbeliever.

December 13, 2010 at 7:09 am#228686

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 13 2010,15:32)

Adam,

If you truly believe then you will strive to have the point of view of a believer and not an unbeliever.

Hi brother Kerwin,
You misunderstood me. That is my faith what I believe. It is nothing to do with what I argue here. I am debating on things I don't understand. Faith and belief need not depend on understanding IMO. I am only questioning things which are not clear to me at present. You have not answered my queries to the extent of full satisfaction. I am searching truth on the other side from Jewish point of view. You being a Unitarian you claim you are led by Jewish understanding of N.T could not present them properly. All Unitarians boast in that angle but they don't come out of Christian dogma. That is what I have seen here. The N.T is full of errors and contradictions which shows it is a fabricated scripture based on O.T. All the writers are Hellenistic but not Jewish including Paul who was also a diaspora Jew who was only thorough with Greek than Hebrew. The N.T writers could not quote Jewish scriptures properly and taken them out of their original context to prove their man-made doctrines than of God. This is what I am arguing here.

Please understand my agony
Adam

December 13, 2010 at 9:38 am#228691

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 13 2010,12:25)

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 13 2010,03:25)

Love and peace to you
Adam

Adam,
Then no one ever explained to you how Yahushua Messiah fulfilled the Spring Feasts?

Once you learn that, you'll see how the Fall Feast are yet to be fulfilled, and the book of Revelations will begin to make sense to you.

I agree that through many translations we have some inconsistancies in the Brit Chodesh writings (renewed covenant) but fot the most part they are still intact.

About Joseph's lineage, it is impossible that both Matthew and Luke are of Joseph's because they use different names and in Luke there are MANY more generations.

Hi Laurel,
Yes I read about the Feasts of the Yahweh on internet and I used to believe that Yahshua fulfilled the Spring feasts right from his birth which I placed it on 10th day Nissan as per Luke 1 & 2. His death on 14th day of Nissan and resurrection on 17th day of Nissan. But I still have doubts on these application as now I debate over the sanctity of N.T scriptures when compared to O.T.

As for Baptism is concerned “”in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” refers only one name of the three that is Yahshua as per many Christian interpretations even if you take the scriptures don't contradict as per brother Kerwin theology. I believe Trinity is the appropriate doctrine as far as N.T is concerned which I don't uphold. All other doctrines are incomplete as per my research is concerned. Therefore I now become a Christian skeptic and oriented my beliefs towards Jewish Monotheism.

Shalom and love to you
Adam

December 13, 2010 at 5:05 pm#228729

Baker

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 09 2009,21:54)

Thanks for such agreement. But but my plea is to read the bible with jewish eyes than with helenistic Christian eyes.

That's were you go wrong. You call yourself a Christian, but think like a Jew.
That is not a Christian to me….it is the Faith in Christ that saves us. In fact a Gift from God.

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Peace Irene

December 13, 2010 at 11:28 pm#228743

Participant

Adam,

To me your agony stems from a lack of faith. The reason for your lack of faith depends on a lack of knowledge of the godly point of view. You have chosen to look for what you lack but you are looking in the wrong places. God is righteous and calls his people to be righteous as he is. If someone is not instructing you how to obtain that righteousness then they are not of God. The writers do instruct you how to obtain righteousness through faith.

I am attempting to shield you from the noise created by those that do not understand and so attack what they do not understand.

December 13, 2010 at 11:38 pm#228744

Participant

Laurel,

You wrote:

Quote

Exo. 12:49 “There is one Torah for the native-born and for the stranger who sojourns among you.”

The stranger or Gentile that lives in the land of the Twelve Tribes is the one who sojourns among the people not the one that lives in their own land.

May I hear more about what you understand about prophesies of the Anointed.

December 14, 2010 at 2:26 am#228763

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,09:28)

Adam,

I am attempting to shield you from the noise created by those that do not understand and so attack what they do not understand.

Hi brother Kerwin,
Thank you very much for shielding me from heresies. But it is not my lack of faith rather I call it lack of clarity in Christian scriptures. After 10 years of struggle to understand them I now become a Christian skeptic. If you take these scriptures literally I vote for some thing like Neo-Trinitarianism which I found recently but not for any non-trinitarianism which I found incomplete in bringing the doctrinal concepts on Jesus and Holy Spirit. So I am back to pavilion after so much turning around mulberry tree round and round but no end. I now bring material to refute all non-trinitarian dogma.

One example I can quote how Unitarianism failed to answer on Col 1:12-15 and Rev 3:14. They say Jesus was not firstborn of Old creation but a new creation. How on earth they got this nice escape from falling into trap of Trinitarianism. I think you also uphold this logic which I reject it at face value.

Hi brother Kerwin please open your eyes to read the scriptures with clarity not with blind faith and accept that we do have errors in our scriptures including O.T due to human understanding of the writers of the Bible. God can not be blamed for such silly errors. At least I don't do that. You are questioning my faith and beliefs repeatedly as if you are alone in faith. I want to ask you if it is to say that “blessed are those who believe without seeing and understanding” why at all these unending debates on various biblical doctrines? We came here not to question personal beliefs but to argue on things which are not so clear from our Bible. I bring such polemic material which I find I could not answer honestly. I only expect others who can answer them without questioning others' personal beliefs.

I hope you will understand me.
Peace to you
Adam

December 14, 2010 at 7:16 am#228771

Participant

Adam,

You do not believe that Jesus is the first born of a new creation because you lack faith. If you had faith then you would understand that the first fruit of the new creation is the believers who are only created through thier faith that Jesus is King of all.

Since they believe this they obey all his teachings.

If you are not led by God you will never see what is clear for all to see.

Have you ever done a search of the new creation or new creature in scripture?

It is not a matter of questioning other’s beliefs. Scripture is clear that lack of correct understanding stems from lack of belief and that only as you grow in faith will you also grow in the correct understanding of the will of God.

December 14, 2010 at 7:31 am#228775