The injustice of the koran

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ July 13 2010,13:30)

Bod, there is only life in the Son of God. As scripture says salvation is found in no-one else but Jesus.

Salvation from what?

[bodhitharta]

The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.
Exodus 15:1-3

So Jesus is your God Karmarie?

Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Psalm 25:4-6

Who is THE GOD of your salvation Karmarie?

[karmarie]

Bod, Yes, God is the saviour but through the son, Jesus, because also through the son God created the world. Which is why it says,

“There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. ”

If through Jesus God created the world, why cant God through Jesus also save?

[Ed J]

Hi Everybody,

The 'book of fraud' is reported to have been given by Gabriel, but it was really delivered by satan!
It's vital to understand that the 'book of fraud'(=quran book) teaches against The Gospel's message.

Gal.1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there
be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we,
or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have
preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any
man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

2Cor.11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if [Satan's ministers] also be transformed as the
ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[theodorej]

Quote (karmarie @ July 11 2010,11:57)

Hi Bod. The Quran is 'vital to (your) understanding of the Bible' but it isnt to mine. How can it be? because they are both different, two different Jesus's, I choose one you choose the other.

Greetings K….. The koran shares the accuracy of the Bible with its accounting for the Abramic covenant,when it speaks of the seed of Ishmael and the promise of being a great nation…Ishmael was birthed by a concubine of Sarahs' by the name of Hagar….The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God….Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed…Jerusalem was in existance 2000 plus years before mohamed..

[JustAskin]

TJ,
Good post. However, I'm not sure you can say that Hagar was a “Concubine to Sarah”. Hagar was an Egyptian Slave in the employ of Sarah. Concubine's are a Male-Female things.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ July 13 2010,14:18)

Bod, Yes, God is the saviour but through the son, Jesus, because also through the son God created the world. Which is why it says,  “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. ” If through Jesus God created the world, why cant God through Jesus also save?

God can save through Jesus or in any other way he chooses to.

Ultimately God is always he saviour and God says he will save Jews as well even though they don't believe in Jesus.

Therefore Jews will not be saved “through” Jesus

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:31-33

[bodhitharta]

Quote (JustAskin @ July 14 2010,02:54)

TJ, Good post. However, I'm not sure you can say that Hagar was a “Concubine to Sarah”. Hagar was an Egyptian Slave in the employ of Sarah. Concubine's are a Male-Female things.

And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
Genesis 16:2-4

[bodhitharta]

Quote (theodorej @ July 14 2010,01:37)

Quote (karmarie @ July 11 2010,11:57) Hi Bod. The Quran is 'vital to (your) understanding of the Bible' but it isnt to mine. How can it be? because they are both different, two different Jesus's, I choose one you choose the other. Greetings K….. The koran shares the accuracy of the Bible with its accounting for the Abramic covenant,when it speaks of the seed of Ishmael and the promise of being a great nation…Ishmael was birthed by a concubine of Sarahs' by the name of Hagar….The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God….Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed…Jerusalem was in existance 2000 plus years before mohamed..

The Quran does not diminish the ministry of Jesus in any way, it explains with clear accuracy what Jesus acknowledges himself:

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

This was before the cross. So tell me if Jesus was finish his work before the cross how is it you think his work was to die on the cross?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (theodorej @ July 14 2010,01:37)

Quote (karmarie @ July 11 2010,11:57) Hi Bod. The Quran is 'vital to (your) understanding of the Bible' but it isnt to mine. How can it be? because they are both different, two different Jesus's, I choose one you choose the other. Greetings K….. The koran shares the accuracy of the Bible with its accounting for the Abramic covenant,when it speaks of the seed of Ishmael and the promise of being a great nation…Ishmael was birthed by a concubine of Sarahs' by the name of Hagar….The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God….Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed…Jerusalem was in existance 2000 plus years before mohamed..

Quote

The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God

That's funny because most christians do that same thing to Moses. Has any people ever witnessed the types of things that God did for/with Moses? any miracles of such enormity? yet when Jesus comes you say “Moses was just a prophet” so now when someone says Jesus was just a Prophet you oppose the thought but I ask you what's wrong with being “Just a Prophet ” of God? What's wrong with being a deliverer like Moses, a Saviour like Moses, a Law bringer like Moses?

Muhammad saved his people from polytheist and Idolatry which even many Christians still practice today

Quote

Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed

This is what the Jews say about Moses

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 13 2010,02:18)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 12 2010,13:34) Quote Today many Islamic countries and Muslims all over have taken up many ways of the Jews of the Old testament ways that many Christians condemn as being wrong  and yet the Quran does not condone these activities but in-fact it is the Bible itself that condones these things. There is no prescription of stoning in the Quran but there is in the Bible. It seems each time someone accuses Islam of something evil I find it in the Bible and not in the Quran so reading the Quran is Vital to understanding and better yet vital to understanding that Most Christians have no idea what is in the Bible. This is attacking the bible. lets not play games show me where there is an attack and to do that you would have to show that A. Stoning is not in the bible and   B. where did I condemn stoning What I said very clearly was every time a Christian says something they consider to be evil is in Islam I do not find it in the Quran but I do find it in The Bible For instance in The Quran Homosexuality is condemned but there is no death penalty prescribed for it. [7:80-81] Lot said to his people, “You commit such an abomination; no one in the world has done it before! “You practice sex with the men, instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people.” [26:165-166] “Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? “You forsake the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are transgressing people.” Now according to the Quran we are told [60:8-9] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors. So in the Quran there is no mention of any corporal punishment in this matter although if one was assigned it would be no greater than the one assigned to adultery furthermore it would be very difficult to prove unless someone was running around declaring what they do in private. So when I say that many of the Muslim countries today are taking after the Jews and Christians in some matters it's because it is in the Bible Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 18:21-23 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:12-14

blah blah blah bod,

stop playing games.

jibber gabber you did.

First you state that the OT condemns people by stoning,
yet the quran doesnt.

they accuse Islam of being evil,
when the bible is the one who actually condemns or condones these actions.

or what not.

I get your point,
but its still attacking the bible.

so basiclly your stating that the “evil” things islamics “do” that people condemn are condoned by the bible.

yet they are not in the Quran.

seems like your playing games bod

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 14 2010,05:35)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 13 2010,02:18) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 12 2010,13:34) Quote Today many Islamic countries and Muslims all over have taken up many ways of the Jews of the Old testament ways that many Christians condemn as being wrong  and yet the Quran does not condone these activities but in-fact it is the Bible itself that condones these things. There is no prescription of stoning in the Quran but there is in the Bible. It seems each time someone accuses Islam of something evil I find it in the Bible and not in the Quran so reading the Quran is Vital to understanding and better yet vital to understanding that Most Christians have no idea what is in the Bible. This is attacking the bible. lets not play games show me where there is an attack and to do that you would have to show that A. Stoning is not in the bible and   B. where did I condemn stoning What I said very clearly was every time a Christian says something they consider to be evil is in Islam I do not find it in the Quran but I do find it in The Bible For instance in The Quran Homosexuality is condemned but there is no death penalty prescribed for it. [7:80-81] Lot said to his people, “You commit such an abomination; no one in the world has done it before! “You practice sex with the men, instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people.” [26:165-166] “Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? “You forsake the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are transgressing people.” Now according to the Quran we are told [60:8-9] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors. So in the Quran there is no mention of any corporal punishment in this matter although if one was assigned it would be no greater than the one assigned to adultery furthermore it would be very difficult to prove unless someone was running around declaring what they do in private. So when I say that many of the Muslim countries today are taking after the Jews and Christians in some matters it's because it is in the Bible Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 18:21-23 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:12-14 blah blah blah bod, stop playing games. jibber gabber you did. First you state that the OT condemns people by stoning, yet the quran doesnt. they accuse Islam of being evil, when the bible is the one who actually condemns or condones these actions. or what not. I get your point, but its still attacking the bible. so basiclly your stating that the “evil” things islamics “do” that people condemn are condoned by the bible. yet they are not in the Quran. seems like your playing games bod

No, what I am saying is, why condemn others for actions that are condoned in the scriptures you accept even though those actions are not condoned in the Book(Quran) that you say promotes such actions?

[karmarie]

Quote (theodorej @ July 14 2010,03:37)

Greetings K….. The koran shares the accuracy of the Bible with its accounting for the Abramic covenant,when it speaks of the seed of Ishmael and the promise of being a great nation…Ishmael was birthed by a concubine of Sarahs' by the name of Hagar….The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God….Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed…Jerusalem was in existance 2000 plus years before mohamed..

Hi TheodoreJ, I know. Confusing stuff.

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,05:58)

Quote (karmarie @ July 13 2010,14:18) Bod, Yes, God is the saviour but through the son, Jesus, because also through the son God created the world. Which is why it says,  “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. ” If through Jesus God created the world, why cant God through Jesus also save? God can save through Jesus or in any other way he chooses to. Ultimately God is always he saviour and God says he will save Jews as well even though they don't believe in Jesus. Therefore Jews will not be saved “through” Jesus For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:31-33

Bod, its ok. You can believe what you want to believe, and others what they will. I dont like debating this anymore.

Love to you bod.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ July 15 2010,20:42)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,05:58) Quote (karmarie @ July 13 2010,14:18) Bod, Yes, God is the saviour but through the son, Jesus, because also through the son God created the world. Which is why it says,  “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. ” If through Jesus God created the world, why cant God through Jesus also save? God can save through Jesus or in any other way he chooses to. Ultimately God is always he saviour and God says he will save Jews as well even though they don't believe in Jesus. Therefore Jews will not be saved “through” Jesus For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:31-33 Bod, its ok. You can believe what you want to believe, and others what they will. I dont like debating this anymore. Love to you bod.

It's really not a debate it's a vital question:

Do you or do you not BELIEVE that God can save whomever HE pleases however HE pleases?

Isaiah 59:1 (Young's Literal Translation)

Isaiah 59
1Lo, the hand of Jehovah Hath not been shortened from saving, Nor heavy his ear from hearing.

[bodhitharta]

Christians seem to view God as weak that HE needs to depend on a man to save whom HE wants to save

Hosea 11:9 (New King James Version)
9 I will not execute the fierceness of My anger;
I will not again destroy Ephraim.
For I am God, and not man,
The Holy One in your midst;
And I will not come with terror.[a]

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,04:03)

Quote (theodorej @ July 14 2010,01:37) Quote (karmarie @ July 11 2010,11:57) Hi Bod. The Quran is 'vital to (your) understanding of the Bible' but it isnt to mine. How can it be? because they are both different, two different Jesus's, I choose one you choose the other. Greetings K….. The koran shares the accuracy of the Bible with its accounting for the Abramic covenant,when it speaks of the seed of Ishmael and the promise of being a great nation…Ishmael was birthed by a concubine of Sarahs' by the name of Hagar….The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God….Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed…Jerusalem was in existance 2000 plus years before mohamed.. The Quran does not diminish the ministry of Jesus in any way, it explains with clear accuracy what Jesus acknowledges himself: I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 This was before the cross. So tell me if Jesus was finish his work before the cross how is it you think his work was to die on the cross?

Hi Everyone,

BD is being deceptive here as he doesn't believe Jesus died on the cross!

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ July 16 2010,15:25)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,04:03) Quote (theodorej @ July 14 2010,01:37) Quote (karmarie @ July 11 2010,11:57) Hi Bod. The Quran is 'vital to (your) understanding of the Bible' but it isnt to mine. How can it be? because they are both different, two different Jesus's, I choose one you choose the other. Greetings K….. The koran shares the accuracy of the Bible with its accounting for the Abramic covenant,when it speaks of the seed of Ishmael and the promise of being a great nation…Ishmael was birthed by a concubine of Sarahs' by the name of Hagar….The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God….Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed…Jerusalem was in existance 2000 plus years before mohamed.. The Quran does not diminish the ministry of Jesus in any way, it explains with clear accuracy what Jesus acknowledges himself: I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 This was before the cross. So tell me if Jesus was finish his work before the cross how is it you think his work was to die on the cross? Hi Everyone, BD is being deceptive here as he doesn't believe Jesus died on the cross! Ed J

You can answer the question as well ED. Simply saying I am deceptive is not proving anything.

[theodorej]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,03:59)

Quote (JustAskin @ July 14 2010,02:54) TJ, Good post. However, I'm not sure you can say that Hagar was a “Concubine to Sarah”. Hagar was an Egyptian Slave in the employ of Sarah. Concubine's are a Male-Female things. And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. Genesis 16:2-4

Greetings B…..It was Sarah who requested Abram to be with Hagar so as to have a child….because she was baron at the time….Here is where the term concubine coencides with my previous observation……

[theodorej]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2010,04:03)

Quote (theodorej @ July 14 2010,01:37) Quote (karmarie @ July 11 2010,11:57) Hi Bod. The Quran is 'vital to (your) understanding of the Bible' but it isnt to mine. How can it be? because they are both different, two different Jesus's, I choose one you choose the other. Greetings K….. The koran shares the accuracy of the Bible with its accounting for the Abramic covenant,when it speaks of the seed of Ishmael and the promise of being a great nation…Ishmael was birthed by a concubine of Sarahs' by the name of Hagar….The koran deminishes the existance and subsequent ministry of Jesus to that of a prophet while elevating a self proclaimed apostle to a devine messenger of God….Jesus' ministry had its roots in over 600 years of existance before Mohamed even existed…Jerusalem was in existance 2000 plus years before mohamed.. The Quran does not diminish the ministry of Jesus in any way, it explains with clear accuracy what Jesus acknowledges himself: I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 This was before the cross. So tell me if Jesus was finish his work before the cross how is it you think his work was to die on the cross?

Greetings B…..I have learned many years ago to read the entire verse or somtimes an entire chapter so as to gleen the message….very rarely does a scriptual snippet convey the entire intended message….When we examine the ministry of Jesus including the resurection….I can only see the completion of a portion of Gods plan for us which is eternal life…..Does the Koran acknowledge Jesus' victory over death and his subsequent devinity?

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