The immorality of christianity

Participant

princess

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Stuart, man's morality is any better? Give me proof and just possibly you may have an atheist on your hands. Be warned ' you would have a better chance at seeing god'.

You don’t appear to understand the principle of the burden of proof. Tell me what a god is, then demonstrate it exists, and then we can discuss the relative merits. At this stage all we can rely on are human ethics based on genetics and cultural discourse, and some humans who claim without explanation that there is a thing called a god involved.

In regards to moral comparisons, that is what this whole thread is about. I refer you to the Hitchens piece at the start, and the discussion of the ethics of abortion, which whether I can sustain an ethical argument or not is unopposed by ANY ethical argument from any christian.

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Playing ring around the rosie has never been a favorite of mine, especially since I understood what the song truly meant. Yes, Stuart life is all around us, even those cells that are running around, nothing comes out of it unless two are joined to form a human. You are starting to back peddle on the issue.

How am I? Are you another who believes the word “why?” constitutes a question?

As in… science tells us how but can’t tell us why…the ultimate religious platitude where the religious person thinks he is being really clever and deep but actually has not phrased a question even according to the basic rules of grammar.

Tell me what you think life is, when you think life starts, how you justify one in terms of the other, and how life was not there before. Otherwise please acknowledge that your question is a rhetorical platitude.

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What is a soul Stuart, can one really have one? does one really need one? what does it mean when one says they have none, or one has sold their soul to god or the devil? Books and movies sell well when this is the genre.

Just as they sell well when the religious accuse science of not answering questions that are not questions. But I agree of course, what is a soul? I’m happy to forget I even mentioned it if you are!

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Never suggested you were any other way, I have come to accept your narrow mindedness.

I consider my attitude to be a high standard of probity; a rejection of accepting just any story. I consider it narrowminded not to question the Council of Nicaea, to give one example. They rejected the Gospels of Philip and Thomas but accepted other accounts, thus inventing the standard mythology of Jesus. If you also reject these gospels, then why?

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Stuart, saving a life is saving a life, just due to the stupidity of a woman does not give just cause. Sorry, it is how I feel. The best one yet I have heard, a girl intentionally wanted to conceive a child to keep her boyfriend, when he decline the offer of being a dad, she decided to have the child aborted. This is who you support?

Yes I support her human right to decide what happens to her body. How else could things be? But the part left out is that abortion is a surgical procedure with associated risks, and with a possible legacy of depression after the event. This information must be included in the decision making process and constitute the main reasons against abortion. They are the same reasons against other kinds of surgery too. Those facts might be included in a health curriculum in schools in exactly the same way that other poor decisions about nutrition or smoking or excessive drinking may lead to the need for surgery too. I would hope we never decide as a society not to support people who have lung cancer that was contracted through years of smoking. That is not the way to deal with health issues.

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I am not 'squeamishness' by any means Stuart, I do not understand why you insist on using the word towards me.

OK, so the “arguments” against abortion that involve pictures of foetuses in wombs or the more graphic ones are not what you would use to support your case. I appreciate that. It means I do not have to refer you to gruesome pictures of heart surgery.

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Stuart, each of us have our own, I am not nor going to support a woman who makes such decisions in life due to 'they lost their head' in the moment. When I am out on the court shooting hoops with my son, I am playing basketball, when on the field we play football. Not wearing my good white dress while doing it (although getting pretty good shooting hoops in the morning with heels.) I am sure you understand what I mean. In layman's' terms, I don't support stupidity. No more I can say to the matter. You can choose to support stupidity if you wish and categorize it under woman's rights if you would like.

The drive to procreate or the drive to be socially accepted so often overcome the patient reasoning you expect all humans to live by. If we start by ostracising those who make poor decisions in regards to that which comes naturally and is essential for our continuation as a species, then where do we go next? Even before then shouldn’t we have already dealt with the effects of other examples of stupidity that do not stem from things as central as reproduction?

People do countless stupid things because of sincere religious beliefs, but religious belief is not essential to humanity. Shouldn’t we ban that before we would ever get to abortion?

Stuart

April 20, 2011 at 12:31 pm#243848

theodorej

Participant

Quote (Stu @ April 20 2011,12:07)

Quote (theodorej @ April 19 2011,22:50)

Quote (Stu @ April 19 2011,08:42)

Quote (theodorej @ April 19 2011,02:04)

Greetings Stu… This is not about my religion,and with reference to the oath,the overall pledge is before a higher authority and the acknowledgement there of….Paul preached to the greeks and acknowledged the temple of the unknown God….The body functions in an orderly manner or rythmaticly for the most part…given the overall health we breath and the oxygen is processed,we eat and the food is processed,the body extracts nutrients feeds the cells and eliminates the waste,this is a process that is repeatative and rythmatic….Iam not a physician and by no means an authority,but an application of common sense tells me that,If the body has a cyclical format for reproduction and it is interupted the consequence would be the breaking of a harmoneous process and confusion would set in….This confusion could manefest itself in the form sickness or desease….Stu if you are a physician have patience with my sophmoric observations and indulge me…In addition…my observation of the effects of contraception was completely honest and not speculative…..my statement simply said there is a connection I did not quote stats and numbers

I suppose the final question on the Hippocratic oath is whether if you were medically trained you would take it, and what you think your god would think of your promises to false gods.

You don't know what you mean by “rythmically” (or rhythmically, as it is spelled) and it looks like you have not studied medicine (I haven't either) and it appears from your pseudoscientific language you have absolutely no meaningful point to make about the health effects of contraception. Would you accept your own arguments if they came from a lawmaker who was legislating on contraception for the good or ill of the population? I hope not.

I take it you are not Catholic. Your posts read like Catholic apology.

Stuart

Greetings Stu…. As I have previously stated ..Abortion is a personal sin between God and the women…it is none of my business as it is also none of the governments business..which means I do not want to pay for it with my tax money nor do want any elected official legislating its propergation…..The catholic church disowned me many years ago for marrying a Jewish women…since then I have studied theology and the scriptures and are in search of understanding….Iam not a scientist,however,science is something that peaks my interests…

Many christians complain that “secularists” are trying to sideline their views and that christian politicians should be able to apply the ethics they get from their religion, actually to which any True Secularist should say “sure, no problem”.

But here is the problem: all you have against abortion is the poorly defined word “sin” in regards to a Being that does not exist.

Meantime I have a case argued on principles of human rights with evidence to support my conclusions. I don't think your opinion should have as much weight as mine in regards to legislation. Effectively you want to return us to the dark ages of religious just so stories of gods and demons and other supernatural beings.

If you are serious about this then I think you should hand back your antibiotics and car keys. I could assert that they are sinful and have them legislated against by exactly the same principle as you are applying here.

I appreciate you have broken from mainstream religious adherence but while we are talking of money shall we cancel all the tax breaks the churches enjoy the world over and see how long mainstream christianity lasts, while we are at it? I object to my money being spent in that way too.

Stuart

Greetings Stu….The cancellation of tax exempt status of all churches would probably serve as a cleansing process to eliminate the charlitans in the religion business….In addition to your argument on human rights …Iam a strong proponent of human rights,where we differ is my fundamental belief that human life starts with conception,God gave us all a free will to choose right from wrong and good from evil….The term sin…means the transgression of Gods law or a failure to acknowledge and attempt to live according to the basic ten statutes or commandments….and just like the transgression of any man made law or scientific law there is a consequence for its violation…eg.jumping out of an airplane without a parachute would exemplify the law of gravity…Driving drunk,murder,robbery and so on, the violation of all these laws will bring judgement…Stu i have replaced my antibiotics with probiotics and I have a flawless driving record for over 40 years because I abide by the laws governing driving and the privledge attached there to..

April 21, 2011 at 12:28 am#243884

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ April 20 2011,23:31)

Probably denominations in the religiose US would adapt to losing charitable tax breaks but I think stopping tax breaks in New Zealand would seriously dent most christian cults, probably driving many out of business. As for charlatans… how do you tell which are and which aren't? They're all selling snake oil as far as I am concerned!

Regarding the “human life starts with conception” canard, so what if it does? In any case you are making an arbitrary claim there which is not based in anything rational, because the living cell from which the “new life” emerged was present in the mother's body when she was born, and the sperm cell derived from living cells already present in the father's body. There is no time when there wasn't life leading to this “new” one. What is relevant about the start of life? There is no principle against ending life in general. Every time I murder a carrot by pulling it out of the ground I will have ended a life. I justify that on the grounds that if I do not, then my life will end.

It is not your use of antibiotics (you will be using them if you get any kind of serious infection, I'll bet) or your use of the car, which I am sure is more exemplary than mine, it is the fact that you have access to either. You want us to accept your ASSERTION that there are things that your Imaginary Friend claims are “sinful” and therefore should not be happening. My ASSERTION could be that cars are sinful and so no one should have them. Do you respect my assertion? If not, perhaps you understand why I do not respect yours.

On the other hand, if it was argued that cars should not be available because of the long list of really poor consequences then at least there would be a debate worth having. “Abortion is sinful” is no argument at all, in adds nothing to any debate, because no one should ever buy bald assertion of fantasy,
including no christian either: as I mentioned already, the Judeo-christian book of mythology is full of instances of its god threatening women with miscarriage (or threatening death to a whole population that must include pregnant women), so to even use the word “sin” is hypocritical.

Stuart

April 21, 2011 at 1:14 am#243887

Participant

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At this stage all we can rely on are human ethics based on genetics and cultural discourse, and some humans who claim without explanation that there is a thing called a god involved.

Yes, Stuart, that is all we have to rely on. Man or God.

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I can sustain an ethical argument or not is unopposed by ANY ethical argument from any christian.

Could you clarify what a christian is to you.

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I believe spiritual life starts from within, when one is freed of all fears. I believe physical life starts when when two cells are joined. I hold the same belief as you do that life surrounds us. How you would want me to justify this.. is to say the least, petty.

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I am neither a priori Stuart, I questioned the creeds right off. What do you mean by reject, we have spoken of this before, truth can be found in many places who am I to decide where it is to be found. Have you read any of the books you mentioned, I have.

There are two books of Thomas, The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which gives account to jesus' youth, and the Coptic Gospel of Thomas (Nag), the infancy seems to give the 'what was jesus like in his youth, since only the canonized version start him at his ministry. The Coptic Gospel of Thomas I do not know why the church did not canonize this book, however, this book brings the teaching; with salvation comes to those who learn the truth of their plight & in doing so escaped the impoverishment by acquiring this knowledge, I also believe the church did not accept the verse ' a woman must become a man to enter into the kingdom', however they could accept 'a man must be born again' go figure. However, most pull toward the physical and not the spiritual side of things, so this is not surprising.
The Gospel of Philip, pretty much goes against everything the church stands for, it gives account of those who can understand and those who can't, between knowledge that is exoteric, and that which are esoteric. a verse you may prefer from Philip:
'light and darkness, life and death the right and the left are each other's brothers. they cannot be separated from one another. therefore the good are not good, nor are the evil evil, nor is life life, nor death death. On account of this each one will dissolve into its beginning origin, but those who are exalted above the world cannot dissolve, they are eternal.'
I would tend to think you would enjoy the origin of the world. Excuse my ramblings Stuart, one subject I tend to go on with. Where were we oh, the abortion issue.

Heart surgery is the best you can refer to, you thought I would faint at the drop of blood, yeah have little faith in me Stuart.

Stuart, once again we should know when the conversation is completed, we have been at this long enough, you believe every human has the right to do what they want to their body, I disagree. Oh, and at what age should this person attain this right?

If one cannot substain self control over their own, then there is a problem, I can understand the concept, shopping is mine. However, Stuart, it took me five years to find the perfect shirt/jacket/shoes/purse/accessories for a pair of slack. My favorite attire.

Stuart, I have not always been who I am today, I have always had a bit of a prudish side, I can admit. Things of such nature should not be discussed in length, however, I am aware of such things that are natural to us. I do enjoy the verse that one can attain peace, when we look at one other without lust or envy. This is a goal that I would so like to attain, a desire of my heart so to speak.

There is ignorance Stuart, and then there is stupidity, it is almost like the ones that do not understand the difference between judging and right ruling. A fine line, however there is still a line.

Much love to you Stuart, hope all is well.

April 21, 2011 at 4:37 am#243903

Participant

princess

Stu: At this stage all we can rely on are human ethics based on genetics and cultural discourse, and some humans who claim without explanation that there is a thing called a god involved.

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Yes, Stuart, that is all we have to rely on. Man or God.

They are both the same, and since you have not provided the required explanation, talk of a god is irrelevant.

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Could you clarify what a christian is to you.

A christian is a person who calls himself a christian. I would question that person’s claim of christianity if it did not include some mention of Jesus, especially a version of the doctrine of resurrection, but there are atheist vicars in the UK who call themselves christians too! Perhaps they believe that Jesus was teacher of ethics they can agree with.

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Tell all the single-cell amoebas that they need to have joined with another cell to be considered physically alive! I agree it this particular argument is petty, and that applies to the question you asked too.

As for spiritual life, I could not agree more. See these verses for more details:

Genesis 22:12
Exodus 1:21
Exodus 14:31
Exodus 20:18
Leviticus 19:14
Leviticus 25:17
Deuteronomy 6:13
Deuteronomy 6:24
Deuteronomy 31:13
Joshua 4:23,24
Joshua 24:14

…there are many more such instances in the Jewish bible…

Luke 1:50
Luke 12:4-5
Luke 23:40
Acts 9:31
Acts 10:34-35
2Corinthians 5:11
Ephesians 6:5 (slaves should be fearful of Jesus as well as their masters)
Phillipians 2:12-13
Hebrews 11:7
1Peter 1:17
1Peter 2:17
Revelation 14:6-7
Revelation 15:4

That’s a lot of fear to try and overcome in order to be spiritual. Of course fear of things that don’t exist is paranoia. Can a paranoid person enjoy a spiritual experience?

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I don’t mind if you do. It is of interest to me how the Nicaean dictates became accepted as the TruthTM, even though the business of the Council assembled there under Constantine was essentially to unify the church, no matter what set of creeds was drawn up. Don’t forget that any of the delegates who refused to go along with the Nicaean Creed was excommunicated and sent into exile. Hardly the basis for coming to a well-considered or divinely-inspired consensus! I appear to have been under a common misconception regarding the canon though, it appears that the Council of Nicaea did not sit down and agree on the rights and wrongs of the various scriptures.

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Heart surgery is the best you can refer to, you thought I would faint at the drop of blood, yeah have little faith in me Stuart.

Well perhaps I could research it and find a more gruesome procedure. The point has been laboured already though. Squeamishness is no argument, and you don’t appear to be attempting to make it as one, so no there seems to be no need to test my ability to find medical gore to compete!

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Strictly it is the right to medical consent. That means being able to agree to a medical procedure or refuse it. That is not quite the same thing as being able to do what they want with their bodies. Do you accept that someone else, perhaps the government, should have the right to your medical consent?

It is an interesting question of when a person is capable of giving informed medical consent. The issue is a bit different from that of sexual consent and different again from that of the age at which one can operate a motor vehicle. Parents take such medical decisions on behalf of their children. There are moronic religious parents who refuse treatment on behalf of their children, that being a sign of the arrogant and selfish belief that their children share their religious views. Should parents have a veto in the case of a teenager who wishes to terminate a pregnancy? Surely parents would want to think they had prepared their children well enough beforehand to make sound decisions about reproductive issues, well enough that a pregnant teen could make an informed decision of her own. Of course the statistics show that atheists have much lower rates of teen pregnancy, so perhaps the problem includes holding christian beliefs.

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If one cannot sustain self control over their own, then there is a problem, I can
understand the concept, shopping is mine. However, Stuart, it took me five years to find the perfect shirt/jacket/shoes/purse/accessories for a pair of slack. My favorite attire.

Indeed. And I would not be your critic in that!

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If no one ever looked at anyone else in lust there would be no humans at all! Is it not a higher goal to accept that lustful thought is a necessary reality, and perhaps an enjoyable one, but to look to balance that in a disciplined and principled way against the other requirements we have to work together in our various communities without lustful considerations? Curing humans of lustfulness would be like trying to cure homosexuals. I’m sure there are fundies out there making dishonest money from both right now, but it’s pointless and mindless.

In this there is contained another reason not be a christian, as if we needed any more reasons. There is a Celestial Inquisition reading your thoughts every second, and lust is apparently something it cannot allow. So we have Orwell’s Thought Police who will record such things that pop into our brains without warning, and those records might be used in judgment against us at some undisclosed time in the future at some undisclosed venue…possibly after we are dead. See the reference to paranoia, fear of god and spirituality above. You have it right, fear is a stumbling block to spiritual experience, but is it possible to be both christian and spiritual? I can’t see how it is possible. Apparently your god makes lustful thoughts appear in your brain then threatens you with punishment for thinking them.

Stuart

April 21, 2011 at 11:12 pm#243968

Participant

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Tell all the single-cell amoebas that they need to have joined with another cell to be considered physically alive!

you protest too much Stuart, at both levels meaning with the christian text reference also.

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Can a paranoid person enjoy a spiritual experience?

paranoid is a form of fear, no fear Stuart.

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That is not quite the same thing as being able to do what they want with their bodies

yes it is.

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Do you accept that someone else, perhaps the government, should have the right to your medical consent?

The government doesn't have this right now? I don't understand. Stuart, when an emergency team is dispatched, do they ask the individual for medical consent. Abortion is an area of life that the individual does have medical consent to do what they exactly want to have done, not many that I know, go into heart surgery willing. I cannot exactly place abortion in general surgery category. Do what you will though.

The golden rule was at its best during the time of Constantine, how great was it for an emperor to accept a religion for his kingdom. Especially for a very wealthy country, and a very wealthy church. Now and again you will read such things on the forum. Especially, when you bring up pagan religions intertwined with christianity, some tend to take offense.
Most trinitarians should be categorized as catholics, however it is not so. They believe the same, the only disagreement is bowing before idols, which in turn brings a conversation that since they bow to jesus, they are bowing to the wrong god.
Arains are most likely descendent's from Essenes, ebonies. The belief is close. Cathar, are a sect that catholics stemmed from. Surprised? Catholics have a tendency to bring up having the same religion for 2000 or more years, straight from the prophets themselves. There was one on the forum here whom Nick gave me a warning for, no tile though like you. It is good to see that you changed your signature.

It was well to see envy is not a part of you. Stuart, lust is natural I don't disagree. However, it should not be consider your thought process everytime you look at an individual. For this to be the case, I am teaching my son wrong. When we look to mate many factors come into play, this is genetic/breed into us, bottom line. Once ideas are established in ones mind, then the choice is made to either breed, or not too. Homosexuals cannot breed. To remove this we would have no humans. Some cannot distinguish lust and love, I would say as much it is a physically thing that relates to somewhat of their phys-ee. I do not know if there is a cure for such things.

It depends how a christian believes, there are many sects that have different beliefs, just as you referenced the vicars.

How do you know my god Stuart, I do not even know the name, sure it is an extinct language. Gave up a bit ago, on trying to find out. I feel like the ones that Paul said I will tell you who your unknown god is. There is a story of Paul and John the Baptist, Paul had traveled John's route, spoke of jesus, and the village told Paul that had not heard of this jesus. Bad John. Kepha took a slap on the head for going against Paul. Strange how the arabic text Paul has more props then anyone. Tis Pauline christianity at its best. Which makes really no sense due to the church chose Kepha their founder. Paul may not have liked Kepha due to Kepha kept the Jewish traditions/beliefs close to his heart. Although a uncanonized text, gives account of a woman who followed Paul, then Paul gives the woman should be seen and not heard speech.

Thought police, how silly Stuart. I do not have a angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other side. Spirituality comes from within ones self.

Take care Stuart

April 22, 2011 at 1:55 pm#244055

theodorej

Participant

Quote (Stu @ April 21 2011,11:28)

Quote (theodorej @ April 20 2011,23:31)

Stuart

Greetings Stu…. Imaginery,fantasy and so on ….these words are the instruments of your argument eg. your opinion which is purposed to demean and in the process enhance a bankrupted logic coupled with a gross misconception of life and its complexity thereof….To compare a carrot to a human being is absurd and rediculous….they are not even comparable life forms….God set laws in place,he is not standing around waiting for someone to violate them so he can punish them….We are governed by a free will to choose,you have made your choice and you are comfortable with it and I respect that…..

April 25, 2011 at 4:55 am#244383

Participant

princess

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paranoid is a form of fear, no fear Stuart.

So no god, no fear then? Otherwise what about all those scriptural demands that you show fear? Is it just a pretense?

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The government doesn't have this right now? I don't understand. Stuart, when an emergency team is dispatched, do they ask the individual for medical consent.

Yes, I believe they do.

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Abortion is an area of life that the individual does have medical consent to do what they exactly want to have done, not many that I know, go into heart surgery willing. I cannot exactly place abortion in general surgery category. Do what you will though.

Why can you not? It is unquestionably a surgical procedure.

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The golden rule was at its best during the time of Constantine,

Was it better than in ancient Babylon, Egypt, Persia, India, Greece, or China? Was it better than Karl Popper’s version “”The golden rule is a good standard which is further improved by doing unto others, wherever reasonable, as they want to be done by”?

See how even the best christianity has to offer, Matthew 7:12, is second-rate compared with other philosophies!

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how great was it for an emperor to accept a religion for his kingdom.

Not great at all. Certainly not the acceptance of any of the Abrahamic abominamtions. Think how much less misery there would have been in the world had Constantine insisted everyone in the Roman Empire practice Buddhism. Of course that way of thinking can be as mindless as christianity, but at least it does not involve making inane statements about homosexuality. Etc.

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Especially for a very wealthy country, and a very wealthy church. Now and again you will read such things on the forum. Especially, when you bring up pagan religions intertwined with christianity, some tend to take offense.
Most trinitarians should be categorized as catholics, however it is not so. They believe the same, the only disagreement is bowing before idols, which in turn brings a conversation that since they bow to jesus, they are bowing to the wrong god.
Arains are most likely descendent's from Essenes, ebonies. The belief is close. Cathar, are a sect that catholics stemmed from. Surprised? Catholics have a tendency to bring up having the same religion for 2000 or more years, straight from the prophets themselves. There was one on the forum here whom Nick gave me a warning for, no tile though like you. It is good to see that you changed your signature.

Someone here once posted a reference to a review someone had made of this forum which basically described the view here as Arian. I researched “Arian” at the time it was posted but didn’t really understand its place in the scheme of things until reading a bit more about the Council of Nicaea after you posted about questioning the canon. Would you say posters on this forum are Arian in their views?

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Sex is tied up with many things besides procreation in the animal kingdom. Penguins will prostitute themselves as payment for the best nesting stones; bonobos use sex as a means of reducing the tension in the tribe and patching up differences. I think in humans it is the nature of the human brain that makes lust a difficult thing to reconcile. We have a reptilian emotional brain and a mammalian neocortex, the reasoning brain that distinguishes us as human. Communication between those two parts is fraught, hence the advice to count to 10 before reacting which gives us time to use the neocortex to reason our way out of a situation that would otherwise result in an instinctual reaction like fight-or-flight. Lust is another emotion that we hope will be available to motivate procreation but will be able to be kept in check by the neocortex, for good biological reasons. Not straightforward.

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Homosexuals cannot breed. To remove this we would have no humans. Some cannot distinguish lust and love, I would say as much it is a physically thing that relates to somewhat of their phys-ee. I do not know if there is a cure for such things.

If homosexuality is significantly genetic, then those genes would only survive in the gene pool if the presence of gay people helps the survival of people who are breeders, or if those gay people do have children themselves. Both are common I think.

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Is should definitely be on Celebrity Death Match. A reenactment of Saul versus Shimon.

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Thought police, how silly Stuart. I do not have a angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other side. Spirituality comes from within ones self.

So what about judgment?

Stuart

April 25, 2011 at 5:02 am#244384

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ April 23 2011,00:55)

“Imaginary” is not my main argument, although I feel justified in making that assertion given that it is only a response to the assertion of the believer in Imaginary Friends. There is no particular demand on me to prove the negative when the god believer has not provided a single piece of unambigious evidence in support of his assertion of a celestial conspiracy theory.

Carrots and humans are both alive. I don't think that is absurd. Neither do I see the absurdity in stating that life must end in order that mine continue, this much is obvious. EXPLAIN to me why this direction of approach to questions of life and abortion is absurd. I think it is quite pragmatic.

Stuart

May 3, 2011 at 7:31 am#245079

Participant

Hey I know, shall we close our eyes to the truth that everything either came from someone, something, or nothing. Knowing that the latter two points are impossible, it leaves the first point as the only reasonable explanation which BTW, answers everything.

But like I said, lets forget truth and concentrate on trying to baffle people with well written articles that have no foundation to speak of.

May 3, 2011 at 10:30 am#245207

Participant

Quote (t8 @ May 03 2011,18:31)

But like I said, lets forget truth and concentrate on trying to baffle people with well written articles that have no foundation to speak of.

Thank you for complimenting my writing.

Please show us how the use of the word “someone” constitutes an explanation.

Stuart

May 4, 2011 at 2:21 am#245254

Participant

Stu,April wrote:

[/quote]
Stuart,

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So no god, no fear then?

Fire and brimstone teaching were taught to me during my youth, long have overcome them. Such teachings deter ones growth. It can also depend on how a person reacts to fear, some coward, or the fight, other accept, some overcome them. One, only brings you knowledge.

In regards to the medical consent, most emergency personnel would tend to disagree.

Plastic surgery can be categorized with abortion Stuart. Should we sub categorize surgery under 'wants/needs', micro manage the whole matter and be done with it.

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The golden rule is a good standard which is further improved by doing unto others, wherever reasonable, as they want to be done by

Until rebellion begins.

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but at least it does not involve making inane statements about homosexuality

I completely understand your perception, I take the same with abortionists.

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Would you say posters on this forum are Arian in their views?

By far no.

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Celebrity Death Match

Moses vs. Paul. Happening as we speak.

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So what about judgment

Stuart, you do know there are many books on revelation do you not, john was not the only one, he made the cut. In one version all enter the kingdom, another, the victim gets revenge, in another, what wrong was done there is a certain punishment.

Eternal life or eternal death. So many versions which one to pick from. Some use judgement as a scare tatic, which works, some use it for monetary gain, which works. Perhaps one should search within, find the spark which we all have been given, to attain peace within. To attain this, no matter what is after our life, we should be good. Even the 'ten' commandments are not bad guidelines to live by, remove the first three for you.

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This statement took some thought on my part, I must say. The synopsis is valid. However, I can foresee that the breeders would eventually remove the homosexual, due to many factors, cost, progress, demand/supply. The breeders would have ample supply of hetrosexuals to accomplish the task at hand. If you do know of any species that uses/used this method please reference them, would be quite interesting to read.

Do take care Stuart, much love.

May 4, 2011 at 8:34 am#245264

Participant

princess

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The question of whether it is actually true or not seems irrelevant to you. Can you just wish away the parts you find difficult?

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In regards to the medical consent, most emergency personnel would tend to disagree.

It is an interesting point. It could be that a person who is unconscious as a result of an accident is not capable of giving medical consent at the time, but perhaps there is a social mandate that we give consent to whatever procedure is necessary at the scene of an emergency. I certainly feel that way myself, that in such circumstances I have already given my consent. Perhaps others might not feel that way. I don’t know anyone who thinks like that though.

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Plastic surgery can be categorized with abortion Stuart. Should we sub categorize surgery under 'wants/needs', micro manage the whole matter and be done with it.

Abortion can also be categorised with appendicitis.

Stu: The golden rule is a good standard which is further improved by doing unto others, wherever reasonable, as they want to be done by

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Until rebellion begins.

Doesn’t that usually start when things stop being reasonable?

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You seem to be picking and choosing a great deal from your book of mythology. Why are the commandments not like the damaging teaching you mentioned earlier? Why would anyone wish selectively to follow the commandments? They are anti-human in that they prescribe, they do not challenge you to do the thinking required to develop a better morality than that clumsy ancient philosophy. And don’t forget that it is the death penalty that is applied to breaking of laws in the books that list the commandments and the others around them, which is an injustice and an immorality in itself. There is also the pathetic absurdity of claiming that there is anything special about any of the commandments. Humans had more or less prospered for 175,000 years before ancient Jews codified their cultural laws as the absolute dictates of their Imaginary Dictator. What a poor false shadow they portray against the real story of how human ethics developed.

Stu: If homosexuality is significantly genetic, then those genes would only survive in the gene pool if the presence of gay people helps the survival of people who are breeders, or if those gay people do have children themselves. Both are common I think.

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I’m struggling to see how natural selection would work to remove homosexuals. If children had a gay adult uncle, and as an adult he was capable of bringing home more food than he needed for himself then the survival of those nieces or nephews would be enhanced. They share 25 of his genes so there is an advantage to his genes in helping their survival, and that genetic package as a whole would be fit pattern for passing on genes so the same pattern would be repeated: ie: homosexual uncles and aunts support the children of their brothers and sisters generation after generation, possibly. The genes include those required for the production of the gay members of the family! Those gay family members may not be having children of their own, but the success of our species is not the same numbers game as it is for rabbits and other species. Ants are one species that have an extreme version of it.

I still think homosexuality is more likely to be a byproduct of the development of sexuality: it is not like it is either / or, and it is not even straight or bi or gay, sexuality lies on a spectrum from one extreme end to the other. That is why those who claim to cure gay people are either ignorant or nasty – sexuality can turn out to be anywhere on the spectrum but it is not changeable. So maybe it is that people are driven to attraction to others and it is just that enough of them are driven to breed with the opposite sex that it works, and that there has not been a change in the appearance of homosexuality in the population because the non-breeders are effectively contributing to survival.

It does not have to fit any preconception or plan, it just has to work biologically. Clearly the presence of gay people has worked biologically for a very long time.

This link doesn’t directly address the question of whether other animals species have survival benefit from the presence of non-breeders, but it comes very close:
" target="_blank">http://www.suite101.com/content….rl]

Stuart

May 5, 2011 at 1:53 am#245332

Participant

Stu,May wrote:

[/quote]

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princess

The question of whether it is actually true or not seems irrelevant to you. Can you just wish away the parts you find difficult?

Stuart, banishment is not a favorite of mine, however, at times it is needed. Truth as anything will find it's way, as do other matters.

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I don’t know anyone who thinks like that though.

I believe there is a sect, that would disagree with your conclusion, they feel it is their right to refuse medical treatment for their children, not to be mistaken, I have read your opinion on this. Does the difference lye in that the child is out of the womb, breathing air. Just curious.

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Abortion can also be categorized with appendicitis.

Yes, under subcategory 'wants/needs'.

Stuart, my mistake, I should have not used commandments, perhaps guidelines would be a better use for you. I cannot see where you disagree with my conclusion. Please pull one that was suggested to back your allegations.

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pathetic absurdity

New combination of words. Yes, absurd can be part of me, however pathetic is not one.

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I’m struggling to see how natural selection would work to remove homosexuals.

At first I did not expand on my thought, striking out a form of slavery would be established, perhaps they would breed homosexual within their own. To enhance the gene.
I do believe in taking care of family, it does take a tribe to raise a child.

Well dear Stuart, I am getting a bit tired, must rest my eyes for a bit, much love big ape.

March 12, 2012 at 6:57 pm#284410

Abortion: Taking it to a whole new level

Participant

March 13, 2012 at 2:14 am#284540

charity

Participant

yes…Religion cry's NO Abortion at all!
let them live! what for! a better chance at a more victorious death?
no no Its about Life!
no its all about who gets to do the destruction?
sure!
Its as if they need to project strife on life to prove their books valid.
sinners keep the holy busy being righteously insane.

poor kids, they are simply reacting to adult abuse.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news….es.html

March 13, 2012 at 3:56 am#284557

Participant

Quote (Stu @ May 04 2011,00:30)

Thank you for complimenting my writing.

Please show us how the use of the word “someone” constitutes an explanation.

Stuart

Stu, people believe that everything came from nothing, something, someone.

I am representing all views.

Now it is a process of elimination.
Go.

March 13, 2012 at 3:59 am#284558

Participant

Quote (charity @ Mar. 13 2012,16:14)

poor kids, they are simply reacting to adult abuse.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news….es.html

March 13, 2012 at 5:03 am#284571

Ed J

Participant

Hi T8,

Excellent video! …quite moving!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 13, 2012 at 5:24 am#284578