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Hi Chap:
I believe that the hour of tribulation is a period of time when many trials come to your day that your faith could be shaken. Rev 7:14 speaks of all the hours of tribulation for a life time. Final point where your victory is enhanced with you being dressed in a white robe cleansed by the blood of the lamb. .. read it ………please…………………….AmenHi Chap
Rev. 7:14 “And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb”.
This is speaking of all the saints that died for their faith, first under Roman rule, and then under Antichrist; and even today believers die for their faith. For every one of these saints, it was the great tribulation.
Zeph. 2:3 “Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.”
This is speaking of the hour, or time, of tribulation, yet to come. Jesus mentioned it in;
Mat. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,…”
It is the same message we read in;
Zech. 12:9 “And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem”.
How far away do you think we are, from an all out war against Israel? When the nations attack Israel, where will you find safety from the wrath of God?
IM4Truth
Hi Chap:
For all Christians Jesus states:
Quote .John 16: 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. The following is what is spoken of as the great tribulation:
Quote Matt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with F46 a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. God Bless
Hi 942767
Mat. 24:15-20, is speaking of the first of three great tribulations Jesus prophesied for the Jews; it occurred in A.D. 70.
Verses 21 and 22 is referring to the second and greatest of the three tribulations. It occurred during the second World War, when over 6 Million Jews were killed by Adolf Hitler. Had Germany won the war, no flesh, Jew, would be alive today.
Verse 27, lightning does not come out of the east, nor does it shine all the way to the west. Storms usually come from the west, and lightnings are very local, at nights you may see a lightning for several miles. What comes out of the east is the sun and it shines all the way to the west.
Mal. 4:2 “But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.”Mat. 24:29, is speaking of the third and final tribulation for the Jewish people; it is yet future, but we can read what will happen in;
Zech. 14:2 “For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the woman ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.”We are witnessing the very events that will lead up to this very prophecy every night on our News Channels. When it happens, it will usher in the millennium of Jesus Christ. We will see Christ coming in, or behind, a cloud; why? so we wont be blinded by his glory, as Paul was; Acts 9:17.
Rev. 1:16 “…; and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.”With blessings to all
Quote (IM4Truth @ Aug. 20 2007,23:29) Hi 942767
Mat. 24:15-20, is speaking of the first of three great tribulations Jesus prophesied for the Jews; it occurred in A.D. 70.
Verses 21 and 22 is referring to the second and greatest of the three tribulations. It occurred during the second World War, when over 6 Million Jews were killed by Adolf Hitler. Had Germany won the war, no flesh, Jew, would be alive today.
Verse 27, lightning does not come out of the east, nor does it shine all the way to the west. Storms usually come from the west, and lightnings are very local, at nights you may see a lightning for several miles. What comes out of the east is the sun and it shines all the way to the west.
Mal. 4:2 “But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.”Mat. 24:29, is speaking of the third and final tribulation for the Jewish people; it is yet future, but we can read what will happen in;
Zech. 14:2 “For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the woman ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.”We are witnessing the very events that will lead up to this very prophecy every night on our News Channels. When it happens, it will usher in the millennium of Jesus Christ. We will see Christ coming in, or behind, a cloud; why? so we wont be blinded by his glory, as Paul was; Acts 9:17.
Rev. 1:16 “…; and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.”With blessings to all
Hi IAM4Truth:Thanks for giving me your understanding on this, however, I understand this differently.
I understand the abomination of desolation to which Matt. 24:15 refers to incidents as 2 Thes. 2:3-12.
And this will be the onset of the great tribulation. This is the same as Daniel 12:1.
My understanding is that we who are born again Christians who are alive at this time will be in this period of tribulation for approximately 45 days and then the Lord will come for all of those in the body of Christ. I am basing my understanding on following scripture:
Quote 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. And,
Quote 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with F46 a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. God Bless
Hi 942767
You will notice that, Dan. 12:1, Jer. 30:7, and Matt. 24:21, are all referring to the same tribulation, and in each of these prophecies it speaks of the Jewish people being saved out of it. The time the Jews suffered under Hitler, was the worst time ever for them, and had Hitler won the war, he would have finished what he started, kill every Jew.
Not only do we not have to worry about Antichrist anymore, we don't have to worry about the great tribulation either, it was for the Jews.
Please do me a favor and read my topic, “The image of the beast, Rev. 13”, it is under “Biblical Prophecy”The abomination spoken of by Daniel, that Jesus mentioned in Matt. 24:15, has really nothing to do with the tribulations he then continues to talk about.
Dan. 12:11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”
The “daily sacrifice” hear is speaking of Christs ongoing, never to be repeated sacrifice. The abomination that destroyed, made desolate, the true meaning of Christs sacrifice, was the setting up of another sacrifice, the Catholic Mass. The Catholic Church teaches that your daily sins can only be forgiven by a Mass sacrifice, during which Christ dies again and again. In other words, what the Catholic Church is saying is, what Jesus did for us on the cross was not enough.
The 1290 days/years give us the time when it was set up until it was exposed. The time this abomination was put into practice was 227 A.D. A pagan lawyer, Tertullian, turned Christian and later in his life left the Church again, was very instrumental in bringing this doctrine about. And ironic, a Catholic Monk, Martin Luther, exposed it in 1517 A.D.
Dan. 12:12 “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
This time, 1335 days/years, is for the saints, showing them when their resurrection would occur. I'm not saying they understood this prophecy. The time of waiting started with the persecution of the saints by Antichrist in 565 A.D. Waiting is done in the grave, coming to the end of those days means, being alive. That is what Paul was saying in 1 Cor. 15:51, we shall not all sleep, in our graves, but we shall all be changed. That change will happen to every saint that will die from that point on, in an instant; he will have to spend no time in a grave, sleep, his change will come in the twinkling of an eye.Blessings
Hi IM4Truth:
You say:
Quote You will notice that, Dan. 12:1, Jer. 30:7, and Matt. 24:21, are all referring to the same tribulation, and in each of these prophecies it speaks of the Jewish people being saved out of it. The time the Jews suffered under Hitler, was the worst time ever for them, and had Hitler won the war, he would have finished what he started, kill every Jew.
Not only do we not have to worry about Antichrist anymore, we don't have to worry about the great tribulation either, it was for the Jews.
Please do me a favor and read my topic, “The image of the beast, Rev. 13”, it is under “Biblical Prophecy”My understanding is that Daniel 12:1 and Matthew 24:21 are referring to the same tribulation, but that Jeremiah 30:7 refers to something different.
The great tribulation is an event that will happen in the future. It will happen just prior to the return of the Lord for the church. I am basing my understanding of this on the following scriptures:
Quote 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25
Behold, I have told you before.
24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29
Immediately * * after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other *.I have read the article that you have written entitled “the image of the beast” as you asked. I will have to print this off and study it more carefully before I can give my comments.
Thank you for giving my your understanding on this. When we have shared our understanding of the scriptures and we can't agree, we can pray and ask God to give us revelation knowledge of His truth so we can come into unity. I am saying that I may be wrong, and and you might be right, but at this point, I just understand this differently than you.
God Bless
Thank you 942767
I am, as you are, sharing my understanding, it is not meant to be doctrine. It is to invite others to take another look at scriptures, especially when history is involved.
I agree with you, only with the help of God's Holy Spirit will we ever understand anything.
Bless youHi Stu,
Have a look at these verses.
Is 34
4And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.5For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
Rev6
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
From the perspective of earth do these describe a polar shift?
Could men on earth survive a polar shift?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,05:36) Hi Stu,
Have a look at these verses.
Is 34
4And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.5For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
Rev6
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
From the perspective of earth do these describe a polar shift?
Could men on earth survive a polar shift?Revelation 6:12
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
John could possibly be describing a nuclear conflict/war of somekind that causes devestating effects to our atmosphere.
Chap That is ironic that you would say that. The belief of Mr. Armstrong was the exact thing. I have a lot of trouble with prophecy, because mainly I am not a History friend, never have. One needs to know History, especially Ancient History to understand prophecy. There are so many Ideas floating around about this subject I just wait until it happens. In the mean time I will stay close to Jesus and Our Heavenly Father and study, Meditate and Pray, the whole Armor of God. It is safe there.
Peace and Love MrsIM4Truth
Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth.
chap We are being tested big times on this Website don't you think? Just stay close to OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST AND OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, WE ARE SAVE THERE.
Peace and Love MrsIM4Truth
Matthew 24: 21-22
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.Luke 21:34-35
34 But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 13 2008,13:22) Matthew 24: 21-22 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.Luke 21:34-35
34 But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Hi,
So the ELECT here are those saved through the great tribulation.Hi,
I guess SORROWS is another word for the tribulationMt 24
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Quote Hi,
So the ELECT here are those saved through the great tribulation.Those which are alive and remain. Jesus said that there would be those standing here which would see the coming of the Lord.
Judas (not Iscariot) asked Jesus how will you appear to us and not to the world. For years I thought his explanation was the Holy Spirit. Then after reading the passage carefully I realized the promise was to those who kept the commandments of God, Jesus said he would love him and his father would love him and would come and make their abode with him. I now believe that what Jesus was telling them was that those who are faithfully following him will be made ruler over all his goods as he promised in the parable and rule with him as in Revelation. Paul describes this as the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:14
These elect cannot be touched unless God wills it. They have been given the power to execute judgment during the tribulation. Can you imagine that, what most people fear about the tribulation with respect to judgment is part of what God has called certain ones to perform that are believers. The witnesses, the manchild, 144,000, etc.
Steven
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