The hebrew echad according to moses

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:50)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,09:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,08:50) Hi TT, So tell us again how what comes from the Sun IS the Sun. You say Jesus is like unto God as the sunlight is to the Sun. It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. Nick, Thank you for acknowledging that I was using analogy. Hebrews 1 says that Christ is the radiance of God. The Greek is two words which are “apo” which means “from” or “out of” and “augazo” which means “ray” or “beam.” The sunbeam that comes from or out of the sun is the same substance as the sun. So Jesus is from God and is the same substance as God. Jesus is the radiance of God. It's that simple. You said: Quote It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. The beams are no less for they are the Sun emanating and giving us the benefit. Jesus as God's radiance is how we get the benefit of God's person. thinker Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. It's like Jesus and God, Jesus will give you warth and light but God is so so much more than that. But, Most don't know. You remind me of those who put trust in Idols although they are not capable of Powers Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. Good point, that is why the Word that was with God and was God came in the likeness of sinful flesh, so that we could see him and his glory. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7 WJ Ephesians 1:16-18 (New King James Version) 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, Hi BD Some how you think this contradicts the Trinitarian view? Do you think the scriptures contradict themselves? WJ

What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures?

It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory.

WJ,

The Scripture say that God is the Father and is God of/above/over Jesus Christ.

The trinity doctrine is not a doctrine of different gods according to you so that mean according to trinity doctrine there cannot be a God over a God because the trinity belief is 3 persons 1 God but here it says clearly that One god is the God of Jesus, which mean either Jesus is not God or there is more than one God this has nothing to do with persons of God but with the number of gods you would have to believe in if Jesus is God because he also has a God

[Paladin]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,10:13)

Quote (Paladin @ July 12 2009,10:05) Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,08:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,06:12) Hi TT, So to you the light and heat of the Sun are the Sun? How far will you wander into folly in defence of man's doctrines? Nick, Why do you take my illustration literally? It is not me that looks foolish when you do that. thinker More to the point, if you do not take it literally, why do you think I should believe Jesus is a ray from God? Or are you saying now, it is not a literal ray? Evasive! Jesus is the radiance of God AS sunbeams are the radiance of the sun. You're evasive!  How about making a serious attempt at explaining Hebrews 1:3? Btw, thanks for keeping your posts brief lately. thinker

(thinker)

Quote

Evasive! Jesus is the radiance of God AS sunbeams are the radiance of the sun. You're evasive!  How about making a serious attempt at explaining Hebrews 1:3?

(P)Not so fast with your accusation of “Evasive.” It is YOU who are evading the issue.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,06:12)

Hi TT, So to you the light and heat of the Sun are the Sun? How far will you wander into folly in defence of man's doctrines? (thinker)Nick, Why do you take my illustration literally? It is not me that looks foolish when you do that.

Which is it thinker?

You first say one thing, then evade when you are hoist on your own pittard. It was YOU who said

Quote

Jesus is the radiance of God AS sunbeams are the radiance of the sun.

Followed by

Quote

Why do you take my illustration literally? It is not me that looks foolish when you do that.

AND IT WAS THE SAME ILLUSTRATION.

Which is it?
Literal;
not literal?

You cannot have it both ways.

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said:

Quote

What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures? It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory.

But it does NOT deny that Jesus is God. The Father of glory in no way negates that Jesus is the Lord of glory,

Quote

…for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:8)

The Father of glory and the Lord of glory are both God.

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,11:16)

bodhitharta said: Quote What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures? It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory. But it does NOT deny that Jesus is God. The Father of glory in no way negates that Jesus is the Lord of glory, Quote …for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:8) The Father of glory and the Lord of glory are both God. thinker

It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ

what about that?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
But you call Jesus a false prophet?
So His anointing is blasphemed by you?

What does that make you?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,11:21)

Hi BD, But you call Jesus a false prophet? So His anointing is blasphemed by you? What does that make you?

You are bearing false witness alot lately. Did I call Jesus a false prophet? Quote me here and now or you are Satan

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Sorry I misread your post
“Jesus did not say God told him to say what he said in-fact he said HE DID NOT KNOW so no he is not a false prophet but he was acting presumptuous having partial blindness”

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
But he was the truth and not blind.
Your sight is in question, not his.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,11:26)

Hi BD, Sorry I misread your post “Jesus did not say God told him to say what he said in-fact he said HE DID NOT KNOW so no he is not a false prophet but he was acting presumptuous having partial blindness”

God Bless you!

I apologize if I was not being clear. God be praised!

[KangarooJack]

Paladin said:

Quote

AND IT WAS THE SAME ILLUSTRATION. Which is it? Literal; not literal? You cannot have it both ways.

Did I ever claim that Hebrews says that Jesus is literally the radiance of the sun? NO! I originally said that He is literally the radiance of God. I used the sunbeams as an illustration. Now please deal with the facts I have presented. The word “radiance” is a compound word from “apo” meaning “from” or “out of” and “augazo” which means “ray” or “beam.” Just AS sunbeams come out of the sun and emanate forth from the sun so Jesus is the radiance of God. Just AS sunbeams are part of the sun so Jesus is a part of God.

Stop parsing my illustration. You're only convoluding the issue. Please address the statement that Jesus is the “radiance” of God. Explain how you would illustrate it. Please deal with this or get some sleep!

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,09:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,08:50) Hi TT, So tell us again how what comes from the Sun IS the Sun. You say Jesus is like unto God as the sunlight is to the Sun. It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. Nick, Thank you for acknowledging that I was using analogy. Hebrews 1 says that Christ is the radiance of God. The Greek is two words which are “apo” which means “from” or “out of” and “augazo” which means “ray” or “beam.” The sunbeam that comes from or out of the sun is the same substance as the sun. So Jesus is from God and is the same substance as God. Jesus is the radiance of God. It's that simple. You said: Quote It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. The beams are no less for they are the Sun emanating and giving us the benefit. Jesus as God's radiance is how we get the benefit of God's person. thinker Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. It's like Jesus and God, Jesus will give you warth and light but God is so so much more than that. But, Most don't know. You remind me of those who put trust in Idols although they are not capable of Powers Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. Good point, that is why the Word that was with God and was God came in the likeness of sinful flesh, so that we could see him and his glory. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7 WJ Ephesians 1:16-18 (New King James Version) 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, Hi BD Some how you think this contradicts the Trinitarian view? Do you think the scriptures contradict themselves? WJ What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures? It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory. WJ, The Scripture say that God is the Father and is God of/above/over Jesus Christ. The trinity doctrine is not a doctrine of different gods according to you so that mean according to trinity doctrine there cannot be a God over a God because the trinity belief is 3 persons 1 God but here it says clearly that One god is the God of Jesus, which mean either Jesus is not God or there is more than one God this has nothing to do with persons of God but with the number of gods you would have to believe in if Jesus is God because he also has a God

Hi BD

The scriptures also claims Jesus is God!

So get the white out. or believe the scriptures, all of them!

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,11:27)

Hi BD, But he was the truth and not blind. Your sight is in question, not his.

Isaiah 42:19(New King James Version)

19 Who is blind but My servant,
Or deaf as My messenger whom I send?
Who is blind as he who is perfect,
And blind as the LORD’s servant?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,11:30)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,09:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,08:50) Hi TT, So tell us again how what comes from the Sun IS the Sun. You say Jesus is like unto God as the sunlight is to the Sun. It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. Nick, Thank you for acknowledging that I was using analogy. Hebrews 1 says that Christ is the radiance of God. The Greek is two words which are “apo” which means “from” or “out of” and “augazo” which means “ray” or “beam.” The sunbeam that comes from or out of the sun is the same substance as the sun. So Jesus is from God and is the same substance as God. Jesus is the radiance of God. It's that simple. You said: Quote It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. The beams are no less for they are the Sun emanating and giving us the benefit. Jesus as God's radiance is how we get the benefit of God's person. thinker Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. It's like Jesus and God, Jesus will give you warth and light but God is so so much more than that. But, Most don't know. You remind me of those who put trust in Idols although they are not capable of Powers Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. Good point, that is why the Word that was with God and was God came in the likeness of sinful flesh, so that we could see him and his glory. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7 WJ Ephesians 1:16-18 (New King James Version) 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, Hi BD Some how you think this contradicts the Trinitarian view? Do you think the scriptures contradict themselves? WJ What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures? It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory. WJ, The Scripture say that God is the Father and is God of/above/over Jesus Christ. The trinity doctrine is not a doctrine of different gods according to you so that mean according to trinity doctrine there cannot be a God over a God because the trinity belief is 3 persons 1 God but here it says clearly that One god is the God of Jesus, which mean either Jesus is not God or there is more than one God this has nothing to do with persons of God but with the number of gods you would have to believe in if Jesus is God because he also has a God Hi BD The scriptures also claims Jesus is God! So get the white out. or believe the scriptures, all of them! WJ

Is God, The Father?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,11:17)

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,11:16) bodhitharta said: Quote What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures? It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory. But it does NOT deny that Jesus is God. The Father of glory in no way negates that Jesus is the Lord of glory, Quote …for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:8) The Father of glory and the Lord of glory are both God. thinker It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ what about that?

Yes it says that. This does NOT amount to a negation of anything. The law of contradiction does not apply. The statement “God of our Lord Jesus Christ” does not amount to a denial that Jesus is God. The statement maintians that Jesus is the Lord. Not “a lord” but Lord of lords.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,19:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,11:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,09:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,08:50) Hi TT, So tell us again how what comes from the Sun IS the Sun. You say Jesus is like unto God as the sunlight is to the Sun. It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. Nick, Thank you for acknowledging that I was using analogy. Hebrews 1 says that Christ is the radiance of God. The Greek is two words which are “apo” which means “from” or “out of” and “augazo” which means “ray” or “beam.” The sunbeam that comes from or out of the sun is the same substance as the sun. So Jesus is from God and is the same substance as God. Jesus is the radiance of God. It's that simple. You said: Quote It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. The beams are no less for they are the Sun emanating and giving us the benefit. Jesus as God's radiance is how we get the benefit of God's person. thinker Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. It's like Jesus and God, Jesus will give you warth and light but God is so so much more than that. But, Most don't know. You remind me of those who put trust in Idols although they are not capable of Powers Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. Good point, that is why the Word that was with God and was God came in the likeness of sinful flesh, so that we could see him and his glory. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7 WJ Ephesians 1:16-18 (New King James Version) 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, Hi BD Some how you think this contradicts the Trinitarian view? Do you think the scriptures contradict themselves? WJ What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures? It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory. WJ, The Scripture say that God is the Father and is God of/above/over Jesus Christ. The trinity doctrine is not a doctrine of different gods according to you so that mean according to trinity doctrine there cannot be a God over a God because the trinity belief is 3 persons 1 God but here it says clearly that One god is the God of Jesus, which mean either Jesus is not God or there is more than one God this has nothing to do with persons of God but with the number of gods you would have to believe in if Jesus is God because he also has a God Hi BD The scriptures also claims Jesus is God! So get the white out. or believe the scriptures, all of them! WJ Is God, The Father?

Hi BD

Absolutely, and your point?

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,11:46)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,19:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,11:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,18:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 12 2009,10:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,09:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,08:50) Hi TT, So tell us again how what comes from the Sun IS the Sun. You say Jesus is like unto God as the sunlight is to the Sun. It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. Nick, Thank you for acknowledging that I was using analogy. Hebrews 1 says that Christ is the radiance of God. The Greek is two words which are “apo” which means “from” or “out of” and “augazo” which means “ray” or “beam.” The sunbeam that comes from or out of the sun is the same substance as the sun. So Jesus is from God and is the same substance as God. Jesus is the radiance of God. It's that simple. You said: Quote It seems a poor analogy as the sun is more than light and heat. The beams are no less for they are the Sun emanating and giving us the benefit. Jesus as God's radiance is how we get the benefit of God's person. thinker Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. It's like Jesus and God, Jesus will give you warth and light but God is so so much more than that. But, Most don't know. You remind me of those who put trust in Idols although they are not capable of Powers Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 11 2009,17:51) Are you kidding try touching the sun you wouldn't even get close before completely disintegrating, the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth and sunlight travels all that way and it gives off light and heat  but just enough. Good point, that is why the Word that was with God and was God came in the likeness of sinful flesh, so that we could see him and his glory. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7 WJ Ephesians 1:16-18 (New King James Version) 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, Hi BD Some how you think this contradicts the Trinitarian view? Do you think the scriptures contradict themselves? WJ What contradiction? Do you believe the scriptures? It says GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ, then it says Father of Glory. WJ, The Scripture say that God is the Father and is God of/above/over Jesus Christ. The trinity doctrine is not a doctrine of different gods according to you so that mean according to trinity doctrine there cannot be a God over a God because the trinity belief is 3 persons 1 God but here it says clearly that One god is the God of Jesus, which mean either Jesus is not God or there is more than one God this has nothing to do with persons of God but with the number of gods you would have to believe in if Jesus is God because he also has a God Hi BD The scriptures also claims Jesus is God! So get the white out. or believe the scriptures, all of them! WJ Is God, The Father? Hi BD Absolutely, and your point? WJ

WJ,

TT said that God is not the Father, is he mistaken?

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said to WJ,:

Quote

WJ, TT said that God is not the Father, is he mistaken?

WJ,
Bd, has intentionally misrepresented me. I have said twice that the God is the Father in relation to His people. I have denied that God is the Father in relation to the Godhead (the theotes). In relation to the Godhead the Father is God. This is now the third time I have said this.

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,20:32)

bodhitharta said to WJ,: Quote WJ, TT said that God is not the Father, is he mistaken? WJ, Bd, has intentionally misrepresented me. I have said twice that the God is the Father in relation to His people. I have denied that God is the Father in relation to the Godhead (the theotes). In relation to the Godhead the Father is God. This is now the third time I have said this. thinker

I did not misrepresent you you said that God is not The Father

You can't say that God is the Father in relation to his people either because that would mean you are calling the entire composite of God(Your belief) The Father.

You said God is not Jesus, am I right?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,20:38)

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,20:32) bodhitharta said to WJ,: Quote WJ, TT said that God is not the Father, is he mistaken? WJ, Bd, has intentionally misrepresented me. I have said twice that the God is the Father in relation to His people. I have denied that God is the Father in relation to the Godhead (the theotes). In relation to the Godhead the Father is God. This is now the third time I have said this. thinker I did not misrepresent you you said that God is not The Father You can't say that God is the Father in relation to his people either because that would mean you are calling the entire composite of God(Your belief) The Father. You said God is not Jesus, am I right?

Paul said that Christ is ALL IN ALL now (Colossians 3:17). Everything that God is to us is all rolled up in the person of Christ.

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,21:25)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,20:38) Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,20:32) bodhitharta said to WJ,: Quote WJ, TT said that God is not the Father, is he mistaken? WJ, Bd, has intentionally misrepresented me. I have said twice that the God is the Father in relation to His people. I have denied that God is the Father in relation to the Godhead (the theotes). In relation to the Godhead the Father is God. This is now the third time I have said this. thinker I did not misrepresent you you said that God is not The Father You can't say that God is the Father in relation to his people either because that would mean you are calling the entire composite of God(Your belief) The Father. You said God is not Jesus, am I right? Paul said that Christ is ALL IN ALL now (Colossians 3:17). Everything that God is to us is all rolled up in the person of Christ. thinker

So, God is Jesus?

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