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2co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I dont know, God knows.
I remember reading someplace years ago abouot there being seven 'layers' of heaven, and also that there were/are a different type of angel that dwelled in each of these areas.
any help?God bless,
CopperlyneHey welcome Copperlyne,
I do not think that there is much in the bible itself, but I know that other authors have written on this subject.
I heard someone say that the first heaven was the sphere around the earth where demonic princes dwell. The next level is the starry universe and the 3rd was the Throne room of God. I really do not know for sure though.
I would imagine that his throne would be at the highest point in creation and perhaps it is the place where creation starts and eternity begins. I know I have heard descriptions of Jesus seated on his Father's throne with the glory of God emanating from eternity and through the throne and glorifying everything that it touches.
That said, I think that God's throne is above the stars at least.
Isaiah 14:13
You said in your heart, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.Job 22:12
“Is not God in the heights of heaven? And see how lofty are the highest stars!I am not sure about 7 levels, but that is of course possible and 7 seems like a godly number. I am not aware of a scripture that says this though.
I don't recall reading anything about it in the bible, either about the heavens, nor the 'types' of angels, and it's been many, many years since I first read about them. Somehow in my mind, I see the 'levels' of heaven more like the different sections of the tabernacle, with the curtain between the holy of holies, and the rest of the place. (Exodus 25, 26, & 27).
I know that the Bible says that there are seraphim, cherubim, angels and archangels, but also seem to recall reading somewhere that there are 7 that serve in each of these layers of heaven.
Perhaps it's in one of the books that was excluded from the bible….. hmmmmGod bless,
CopperlyneHi,
You could try the book of Enoch, one of the books of the apochrypha, accessible through the writings section on this site. It speaks about a lot of heavenly details.I'm in the process of rereading Enoch now, thanks!
Read it several years ago, but didn't really study it as I was reading. Read it a second time a couple years ago, and made note to go back to it. Well, this is the third time around, and going slowly, using the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible as well as the NIV Bible. I've had a couple of people tell me that all I need is in the bible, and that may well be, but believe with all my heart, that the Lord wants us to know more of His ways, else these books that were excluded would not have survived to be found again.
The more I learn, the more I realise that I don't know a whole lot.
God bless,
CopperThere are THREE heavens referred to in scripture and these can be differentiated by the context of their use.
The first is indeed the atmosphere above the earth. In this heaven, birds fly:
Jer:4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
10:13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
The second heavens is outer space (the universe), where the stars and planets rest and the third heaven is on the other side of the universe (best reached by travelling through unto another dimension).
10:14 Behold, the heaven (the second) and the heaven of heavens (the third) is the LORD’s thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1 Chr:27:23 But David took not the number of them from twenty years old and under: because the LORD had said he would increase Israel like to the stars of the heavens. (second)
Psalms 103:19 The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
Only three heavens are spoken of…there is little reason to believe that there are more.
Hi k,
Jn 3.11f
” Truly , truly ,I say to you, we speak of what we know, and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended from heaven;the Son of man. As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that whoever believes will, in Him have eternal life””So Jesus speaks with the Spirit of the Father in him as a “We”. He is claimimg to speak in complete unity with God here. He also speaks as one who has experience of heaven. He is the Word of God who was with the Father in heaven. So he says no one else has ascended into heaven and had such experience and authority to teach about it. There are some who have had visions of heaven.
There are some like Enoch and Elijah who have been taken up but only the Son of Man, Jesus Christ, has been in heaven and come back to speak of it. He must be lifted above the earth on a cross in public view to overcome Satan just as Moses did with his serpent to bring healing from the plague. Those reborn in Christ have salvation.Scripture does not say the apostles came from heaven. They were filled with the Spirit of Christ and in him were sitting with Christ in spirit in heaven [Coll 3.1f].
Neither does scripture say we go to heaven. We are resurrected on earth for 1000 yrs and then God makes his dwelling place with us on the renewed earth.[Rev 20-21]
Kenrch said:
“Someone please explain John3:13 seems to say that the only ones going to heaven are the ones who came out of heaven. Which means that the apostles (for sure) had to of come down from heaven???”The apostles did not come down from heaven.
What Jesus said was of course true. At that time, no one had ascended to the spiritual heavens. Except for the son of man, Jesus.
It doesn't say 'no one will ascend to the heavens,' but rather says: “no one has ascended….”
And indeed, no one had.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,23:21) Hi k,
Jn 3.11f
” Truly , truly ,I say to you, we speak of what we know, and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended from heaven;the Son of man. As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that whoever believes will, in Him have eternal life””So Jesus speaks with the Spirit of the Father in him as a “We”. He is claimimg to speak in complete unity with God here. He also speaks as one who has experience of heaven. He is the Word of God who was with the Father in heaven. So he says no one else has ascended into heaven and had such experience and authority to teach about it. There are some who have had visions of heaven.
There are some like Enoch and Elijah who have been taken up but only the Son of Man, Jesus Christ, has been in heaven and come back to speak of it. He must be lifted above the earth on a cross in public view to overcome Satan just as Moses did with his serpent to bring healing from the plague. Those reborn in Christ have salvation.Scripture does not say the apostles came from heaven. They will filled with the Spirit of Christ and in him were sitting with Christ in spirit in heaven [Coll 3.1f].
Neither does scripture say we go to heaven. We are resurrected on earth for 1000 yrs and then God makes his dwelling place with us on the renewed earth.[Rev 20-21]
Ok, but what about predestination?
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
There ia another scripture that says “He knew us before the foundation of the world”. Please explain.Quote (david @ Oct. 23 2005,03:58) Kenrch said:
“Someone please explain John3:13 seems to say that the only ones going to heaven are the ones who came out of heaven. Which means that the apostles (for sure) had to of come down from heaven???”The apostles did not come down from heaven.
What Jesus said was of course true. At that time, no one had ascended to the spiritual heavens. Except for the son of man, Jesus.
It doesn't say 'no one will ascend to the heavens,' but rather says: “no one has ascended….”
And indeed, no one had.
Boy how did I miss that!!
I'm not completely certain what you were asking Kenrch. But here is a thought:
Rom. 8:28, 29: “We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose; because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained [“predestinated,” KJ] to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.” (Also Eph. 1:5, 11)
Yet, to these same ones, 2 Peter 1:10 says: “Do your utmost to make the calling and choosing of you sure for yourselves; for if you keep on doing these things you will by no means ever fail.”
If the individuals were predestinated to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individuals, it must be the CLASS that is foreordained. God purposed that the entire class would conform to the pattern set by Jesus Christ. Those selected by God to be part of that class, however, must prove faithful if they are actually to attain the reward set before them.Hi,
Paradise is interesting. the word occurs 3 times in the NASB.
There is no doubt that when Paul spoke of it in 2Cor 12.2-4 he equated it with the third heaven. Then in Rev 2.7 we are told that the tree of life is there. Rev 22 says the trees of life are on either side of the river of Life flowing from the throne of God and the Lamb in the holy city on earth.Quote (bic @ May 08 2005,18:07) There are THREE heavens referred to in scripture and these can be differentiated by the context of their use. The first is indeed the atmosphere above the earth. In this heaven, birds fly:
Jer:4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
10:13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
The second heavens is outer space (the universe), where the stars and planets rest and the third heaven is on the other side of the universe (best reached by travelling through unto another dimension).
10:14 Behold, the heaven (the second) and the heaven of heavens (the third) is the LORD’s thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1 Chr:27:23 But David took not the number of them from twenty years old and under: because the LORD had said he would increase Israel like to the stars of the heavens. (second)
Psalms 103:19 The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
Only three heavens are spoken of…there is little reason to believe that there are more.
Hi,
2Kings211 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven[8064].
Number 8064
Transliteration:
shamayim {shaw-mah'-yim}
Word Origin:
dual of an unused singular shameh from an unused root meaning to be lofty
TWOT:
2407a
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
heaven 398, air 21, astrologers 01895 1Total: 420
Definition:
heaven, heavens, sky
visible heavens, sky
as abode of the stars
as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
Heaven (as the abode of God)So we do not know where Elijah was taken.
To who ever is interested
2Cr 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Cr 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)The question is, was Paul really caught up to heaven? It seems to me he corrected himself.
2Cr 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
God allowed him a look into the future paradise “restored”, to encourage him because God knew what Paul had to endure and go through.
Why did Paul say “third” heaven? btw, I think he said heaven, meaning heavenly place.
I believe he was referring to the third world, the world to come.2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
That was the first world.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
This is our world, the second world.
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
That will be the third world, PARADISE.
Georg
I was looking up heavens in Judaism and found an explanation for preexistence. Mind that I found it is the school of Jewish thought known as Kaballah, Jewish mysticism. It seems that unborn human souls are said to dwell in Araboth the Seventh and highest heaven where the throne of God is also located.
According to the Second book of Enoch the third heaven, Shehaqim, is said to be where both the Garden of Eden and Hades are located.
Here is what Wikipedia states.
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