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The great apostacy is the falling away. Falling away from what. The truth? What else?
The falling away of truth. The falling away from the WAY. The WAY is truth. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life”.
There have been many factors that have caused this falling away, not least because the hearts of men are accepting of certain things that are contrary to the way.
I wouldn't say it is any one thing, but the works of Contantine and Athanasius would be big factors as their works instituted what we know of today as creeds that are the foundations for the denominations.
Dodgy translations would have helped too. They are often the fruit of bias. Bias is usually affected by what creed a translator holds. Some translators were more honest than others.
I think it is wise to read and compare scripture in more than one translation, so as to not be at the mercy of the translator(s) of one translation. Delving into the Hebrew and Greek is also good for those who teach. Sometimes it is necessary.
H, you still have yet to tell us why the KJV is infallible. You still have yet to defend the accusations made against it. There is another KJV thread that has been found and it specifically discusses the KJV. What have you to say to the claims made against the KJV?
Guess what fellas. I believe the trinity doctrine is unsound and can prove it using the King James bible. So if the King James bible is bias in support of the trinity doctrine, how is it I can debunk the trinity doctrine using the KJ?
Hi H.
If you can't answer any of these claims, just say so. It would be better to express these thoughts in one of the KJV threads, where people are actually discussing that Bible, rather than only hint at it's infallibility without actually proving anything or explaining why you believe as you do.Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 15 2006,19:38) Dear t8, You are asking me. Ask God. Who better to ask about his word then the true author. If you truly go to God with a sincere heart he will answer you. This is the entire problem. Men following men. Follow God. Everything in my life has come by one of two ways. My way or God's way. I was married prior to my wife now. I married for all the wrong reasons. She was beautiful and appealing to the flesh. I did love her. Before I got married, I was trying different churches, trying to find one I thought God wanted me to be in. And even after I got married, I continued to search without any success. Finally I gave up and said Lord, you will just have to send someone to me to lead me to where you want me to go and he did. That is what he was wanting for. For me to get out of the road and let him show me. We are our biggest roadblocks to God. Anyway, my wife and I started attending this church, recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and got baptized by water. My faith grew by leaps and bounds. And then it happened. My wife wanted a child and was not having much success so she went to the alter and had hands laid on her and a month later concieved. The problems started with her not going to church because her being with child. This is understandable.
Yet, the real problems started once she gave birth. I found out later that she wanted to have a baby because that is what I wanted. Once he was born, she wanted to start going out with her girlfriends and she did, leaving me home with my son. Then she got into drugs. It got very ugly. I was shaken to my soul. My faith was so strong and yet it could not save my marriage. For years I wondered why and not until recently did the Lord tell me why. He told me that she was my selection, not his. Talk about hitting home. Anyway, having a personal relationship with God is how you find things our beyond all doubt. So many believe they do know God, but do not. The proof is in the pudding.You claim the KJ has all these mistakes. This is your opinion. Just like the word easter. Was it not you who said it should not have been in the KJ if I am not mistaken? If I am wrong, forgive me. Anyway, think about what I said. Pray and fast about it. Go somewhere on a nice day while fasting whether by day or by night away from everything. Just you and God. Seek his face.
Hi heiscomingintheclouds,Thanks for sharing your story with me.
I agree that men following men lead men into a ditch.
It has been demonstrated to me at least that the KJV only crowd is the result of men following men.
20 years ago I was hitch-hiking around the South Island of New Zealand. Heading back to Wellington, I got a lift by this guy who told me he was a Christian. He invited me back to their community and I accepted. I lived with these guys for a few days and they were extrememly accomodating.I met the leader and he preached to me why the KJV was the only translation. I disagreed with his argument and didn't see it as sound, especially considering the inclusion of the Johannine Clause, a gross error in my opinion. This passage is an explicit reference to the Trinity (the doctrine that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God), and for this reason some Christians are resistant to the elimination of the Comma from modern Biblical translations. Nonetheless, nearly all recent translations have removed this clause, as it does not appear in older copies of the Epistle and it is not present in the passage as quoted by any Trinitarian, who would have had plenty of reason to quote it in their trinitarian debates with the Arians), had it existed then. Most denominations agree with the theology contained in the Comma, but that the Comma is not an original part of the Epistle of John.
To me it is the inclusion of this verse that has strengthened the false doctrine of the Trinity. Upon closer examination, the KJV has a big trinitarian bias and has strengthened the position of acceptance for the false Trinity doctrine.
Anyway this guy who preached KJV to me ended up in prison for sexual misconduct. It was splashed all over the news. So you say that God will show me. But I have been shown the contrary.
But just because some guy crosses our path and tries to lead us to a certain conclusion is no proof that this is the leading of God. It seems to me to be more that men are leading men as you say. We also have to be aware that Satan may put people across our paths to lead us into a ditch.
For God to lead us to all truth, we must have a heart that wants truth above reputation. We must also be persistant and search with all our heart. God reveals truth consistently, it is not just a once only thing. You say that you were led to this certain denomination and shown the truth, but could that too be men leading men.
BTW, I wasn't the one who mentioned Easter. I didn't know that this word was in the KJV.
I think we are often shown in multiple ways when God is leading us in a certain direction. Two or three witnesses to something is good. But taking the first thing that crosses our path doesn't prove that God is doing the leading.
Anyway for me this KJV thing is an opinion and shouldn't be a point for division. It is not a foundational, so no point in pushing either opinion as a necessary belief. But no harm in debating it.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 15 2006,20:15) Guess what fellas. I believe the trinity doctrine is unsound and can prove it using the King James bible. So if the King James bible is bias in support of the trinity doctrine, how is it I can debunk the trinity doctrine using the KJ?
Because it isn't a perfect bias. That is the point. It is not a perfect translation and the bias is not perfect or consistent either.But it seems to me that your belief in the KJV and Trinity are a contradiction.
http://www.geocities.com/kjvdispensational/
The truth is out there. First of all, you must be right with God. If you truly want to know the truth, your heart must be in good working order. Your house must be clean. You want me to give you the proof and here is what I will tell you. You will be held accountable. I have told you and when you stand before God you will have to answer. It is for this reason you must get on your face now and pray with all of your heart that you are forgiven of all your sins and that he reveal to you which bible you should us. Do not take any man's word for it. Put your trust in him. A man must be born again.
Let me ask you this. How many of you belong to a spirit filled church. You know the kind spoken of in Mark
16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recoverQuote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 15 2006,20:35) How many of you belong to a spirit filled church.
If you are spirit-filled, then you are the Church.You don't belong to it, you are already part of it by reason of the indwelling of God's Spirit.
I think you are referring to a denomination which is different to the meaning of Church.
No Spirit, no Church.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 15 2006,20:35) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
And these signs shall follow them that believe; they will believe that the KJV is the only perfect bible?Hi H,
Matt 7 21f
“Not everyone who says to me
'Lord ,Lord'
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day
'Lord,Lord.
Did we not prophesy in your name,
and in your name cast out demons,
and in your name perform many miracles?'
And then I will declare to them
'I never knew you; depart from me you who practice lawlessness”The sons of Sceva too were attempting to work in the power of the name but were lawless. The name is effective. Power can be God working through us or can be our work done in the Name outside of the Lord. God asks for fruit as evidence of the Spirit of Christ in us, not just power. Lordship demands obedience. It is whom he knows that is of salvation, not knowing of him.
Nick, what would make you a believer? What if you were to wake up in the morning and were not able to see. Would you then believe? Don't believe men, but believe every word that proceedth out of the mouth of God.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 15 2006,02:59) Nick, what would make you a believer? What if you were to wake up in the morning and were not able to see. Would you then believe? Don't believe men, but believe every word that proceedth out of the mouth of God.
Hi h,
I love the Word. Because of that I can recognise the true voice and that of a stranger. Why should sheep follow you?Dear t8, what I am saying is follow no man. Seek the face of God. If you want to know for sure, you have to believe with all of your heart that Jesus is the Son of God, that he came to die for your sins and that he was resurrected. Ask him into your heart and be forgiven. If you have already done so, then you should already know. If you still question which translation, then I suggest you find fast and pray about which bible the Lord whats you to use.
Think about this. The bible says the Jesus is the Word. Jesus said his flock will hear his voice. If he is the Word, would not his flock recognize his word?
Hi H,
Overcome fear, shake off those human shackles and allow the Spirit to lead you.
Ask the Father and he will bless you with His promised Spirit.The fear of God is the begining of wisdom. Nick, you can't win a dispute by just saying I told you so. You have to prove it. If you don't have scripture to back your stand, what do you have? You say you rely on the spirit, yet what if the spirit you rely on is contrary to God's word?
By the way, how was your morning?
Hi H,
This is not a place of arguments.
It is a place where people bring their treasures from scripture to evaluate their meaning and purpose. We all learn from truth.
Some bring human wisdom and musings, doctrines and and false doctrines too and sometimes by comparison with scripture thay are shown to be wanting.
Sometimes those who hold falsehood dear then want to argue but that is not why we work here.
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