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Hi,
This event needs more study.Matthew 17
1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It was very important to Peter and John to have been there as they spoke of it.
What happened and why?
Jesus was filled with light as we are told will happen to us.
He spoke with two OT prophets as if they knew each other.
He had glory seen then so it is not future glory promised.
God spoke in support of His Son.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2008,10:45) Hi,
This event needs more study.Matthew 17
1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It was very important to Peter and John to have been there as they spoke of it.
What happened and why?
Jesus was filled with light as we are told will happen to us.
He spoke with two OT prophets as if they knew each other.
He had glory seen then so it is not future glory promised.
God spoke in support of His Son.
Hi Nick:The only things that I can note is that Jesus was literally transfigured before them and that Elias or Elijah and Moses talking with him was a vision. Moses representing the Law and Elias representing the era of the Prophets.
Apparently, the disciples were not sure that Jesus was the Messiah because after the incident they questioned asking, “why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?”
God confirmed to the Apostles who Jesus is saying, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him”. And he gave them a preview of Jesus resurrection from the dead and of his glorified body. Thus God confirmed what he was teaching concerning his suffering and the resurrection from the dead which Jesus had taught in the preceding chapter.
Though this incident he taught them that John the Baptist was the Elijah who the scriptures stated was his forerunner.
That is about all that I can contribute relative to these scriptures.
God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2008,13:47) Hi 94,
Can you converse with a vision?
Hi Nick:We know that Moses died and was buried. Elijah was taken up into heaven, and so as far as coversing with them, I can only say that all things are possible with God.
I was just quoting the following scripture by what I have stated:
Quote 9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. How do you explain this?
Hi 94,
VISION
Number 3705
Transliteration:
horama {hor'-am-ah}
Word Origin:
from 3708
TDNT:
5:371,706
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
vision 11, sight 1Total: 12
Definition:
that which is seen, spectacle
a sight divinely granted in an ecstasy or in a sleep, a visionWhat we call a vision is one meaning but what is SEEN is another
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2008,15:26) Hi 94,
VISION
Number 3705
Transliteration:
horama {hor'-am-ah}
Word Origin:
from 3708
TDNT:
5:371,706
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
vision 11, sight 1Total: 12
Definition:
that which is seen, spectacle
a sight divinely granted in an ecstasy or in a sleep, a visionWhat we call a vision is one meaning but what is SEEN is another
Hi Nick:They did see this take place, but it may relate to something that will take place in the future. I say this because although Jesus was transfigured in that moment, he did not stay in that state. The permenance of this transfiguration was something that happened only after his resurrection from the dead.
There is not a whole lot that we can understand about this because there is only this incident that we can look at whether a vision or something else. We can only speculate.
God Bless
Hi 94,
Jesus was in the present with them.
He went up the mountain with them.
He was seen speaking with the prophets.The Father has his own glory.
Jesus was given the glory as the only begotten Son. Perhaps this was the glory that was shining? And the reason it was shining was because he was on holy ground.
I tend to think he had a real-live chat with the boys. I think God called them up (and down)
for the chat. I think Jesus needed some encouragement to continue. Just like when my son is having a hard time pitching in a game – the first baseman and catcher will come to him and give him a boost talk. Maybe this was Jesus' boost talk? He was certainly having trouble – right? Right.I don't believe it was a vision.
Jesus could have had a vision while he was praying. There was no need to take two brother's and head up the mountain if he was just going to have a vision, imo.
Hi Mandy what about Jesus' words in Matt 17:9? Do you mean Jesus was literally transfigured and Moses & Elijah appeared to Peter, James and John? There are many questions you have to answer for believing that isn't it? When did Moses and Elijah were resurrected to become alive in spirit to appear to them? Has Jesus received glory before His completion of the mission of his Father then why these words in Jn 17:1-5, why he was saying ” the hour has come to glorify thy son”? If Moses and Elijah were alive where were they living at the time of Jesus? If they are in heaven why did Jesus said Jn 3:13 “no one has ascended into heaven…except the son of man”?… so on and soforth.
Look Mandy, if we assume things in one way there will be lot of things to assume also to prove that.
I hope you will see the difficulty in believing that transfiguration was real not a vision.
love to you
AdamHi GM,
Why should we be amazed when Jesus said the same should happen with usLk11
33No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.34The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
Matthew 6:22
” The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.Hi GM,
Listen to Jesus.
Your whole body will be full of light.
His was and was seen to be.The light is to be shone among men.
Luke 11:33
” No one, after lighting a lamp, puts it away in a cellar nor under a basket, but on the lampstand, so that those who enter may see the light.Hi Adam,
Quote When did Moses and Elijah were resurrected to become alive in spirit to appear to them?
With God all things are possible. In the OT there was a prophet who was raised from the dead temporarily. He even said to who asked for him to be raised, “Why did you interupt my rest?”.Quote Has Jesus received glory before His completion of the mission of his Father
Jesus was born with the glory of the only begotten Son.John 1:14
The Word bcame flesh and lived for a while among us.
We have seen his glory,
the glory of the one and only Son…..Quote If Moses and Elijah were alive where were they living at the time of Jesus?
Perhaps they were called on for a temporary chat with the Son of God? These are questions that will be answered on that Day.Jesus was in training and I don't believe his training stopped the night before the big “game”. He needed encouragement. His Father sent in some big guns to encourage him on. Anyway, this is how I see it. It would be just like a Father to encourage his Son. Jesus certainly couldn't count on the the silly, tired disciples. Snore.
Thanks for the chat,
Mandy
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