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Hi W,
If is fine to be cynical. To a degree it is necessary to be so. We must be wise about evil. Falsehoods abound.
But we cannot let it destroy our faith.
Faith is what connects us to the grace of God. Faith is the main target of Satan.James said
” You do not have because you do not ask “
But also
“If any man doubts he can expect to receive nothing from the Lord”You are a son of God.
Go into his presence in prayer and expect an answer.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 23 2005,11:34) Hi W,
Tongues is as scriptural as any other matter discussed in the bible. Tongues and, and the other power manifestations of the Spirit, are not withdrawn as many would claim. The graces of the nature of Christ or fruit are given along with power from the Spirit. We are required to be transformed in the inner man to Christ by the Spirit of Christ. We do not say the Spirit of Christ is divided and the powers that Christ had also are no longer given. Yes, the gifts will be withdrawn. That is when the final days come and we are not quite there yet. Scripture says the opposite about the present time. We share the powers and the roles together making up the body of Christ[Eph 4.11f]Tongues were certainly a sign of God's actions in the time of Acts.[1cor 14.21, Mk 16]]
Paul was greatly blessed in tongues and wishes all had tongues.
Tongues are helpful because we do not know our needs.
Prayer in the Spirit is direct to God for those needs we do not realise.Men will come up with any excuse to justify what they see happening instead of going back to the Word to see why what has been promised does not seem to be being given. The fault is never God's. Man's apostasy and rebellion, his ignorance and false teaching and his doubts and faithlessness separate him from God's graces.
There are plenty of references to the use of such prayer in the Word apart from 1Cor 12-14e.g
Eph 6.18
Rom 8.23-28
Jude 20” but earnestly desire the greater gifts”
I will add my prayers to yours for you to share this blessing.
Where are your experences Nick. Did I tell you when the doctor told me that I had about 5 years to live. The Holy Spirit came and lifted me up for two weeks. When I got back to work I just had to tell everyone of my experence, it was just overwhelming. Well Satan didn't like that so he tarted wispering in some of the other employees ears. They went up to the big boss' office and complaind I was making too much money. But the thing is I had been making the same amount for about 5 years and they knew it. Why did they wait until now? I love making Satan mad.
If the Holy Spirit used you then tell me of your experence.Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 19 2005,20:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 23 2005,11:34) Hi W,
Tongues is as scriptural as any other matter discussed in the bible. Tongues and, and the other power manifestations of the Spirit, are not withdrawn as many would claim. The graces of the nature of Christ or fruit are given along with power from the Spirit. We are required to be transformed in the inner man to Christ by the Spirit of Christ. We do not say the Spirit of Christ is divided and the powers that Christ had also are no longer given. Yes, the gifts will be withdrawn. That is when the final days come and we are not quite there yet. Scripture says the opposite about the present time. We share the powers and the roles together making up the body of Christ[Eph 4.11f]Tongues were certainly a sign of God's actions in the time of Acts.[1cor 14.21, Mk 16]]
Paul was greatly blessed in tongues and wishes all had tongues.
Tongues are helpful because we do not know our needs.
Prayer in the Spirit is direct to God for those needs we do not realise.Men will come up with any excuse to justify what they see happening instead of going back to the Word to see why what has been promised does not seem to be being given. The fault is never God's. Man's apostasy and rebellion, his ignorance and false teaching and his doubts and faithlessness separate him from God's graces.
There are plenty of references to the use of such prayer in the Word apart from 1Cor 12-14e.g
Eph 6.18
Rom 8.23-28
Jude 20” but earnestly desire the greater gifts”
I will add my prayers to yours for you to share this blessing.
Where are your experences Nick. Did I tell you when the doctor told me that I had about 5 years to live. The Holy Spirit came and lifted me up for two weeks. When I got back to work I just had to tell everyone of my experence, it was just overwhelming. Well Satan didn't like that so he tarted wispering in some of the other employees ears. They went up to the big boss' office and complaind I was making too much money. But the thing is I had been making the same amount for about 5 years and they knew it. Why did they wait until now? I love making Satan mad.
If the Holy Spirit used you then tell me of your experence.
Nick,Did you know that the Holy Spirit will teach you and the person your talking to at the same time.
Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 19 2005,02:28) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 19 2005,20:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 23 2005,11:34) Hi W,
Tongues is as scriptural as any other matter discussed in the bible. Tongues and, and the other power manifestations of the Spirit, are not withdrawn as many would claim. The graces of the nature of Christ or fruit are given along with power from the Spirit. We are required to be transformed in the inner man to Christ by the Spirit of Christ. We do not say the Spirit of Christ is divided and the powers that Christ had also are no longer given. Yes, the gifts will be withdrawn. That is when the final days come and we are not quite there yet. Scripture says the opposite about the present time. We share the powers and the roles together making up the body of Christ[Eph 4.11f]Tongues were certainly a sign of God's actions in the time of Acts.[1cor 14.21, Mk 16]]
Paul was greatly blessed in tongues and wishes all had tongues.
Tongues are helpful because we do not know our needs.
Prayer in the Spirit is direct to God for those needs we do not realise.Men will come up with any excuse to justify what they see happening instead of going back to the Word to see why what has been promised does not seem to be being given. The fault is never God's. Man's apostasy and rebellion, his ignorance and false teaching and his doubts and faithlessness separate him from God's graces.
There are plenty of references to the use of such prayer in the Word apart from 1Cor 12-14e.g
Eph 6.18
Rom 8.23-28
Jude 20” but earnestly desire the greater gifts”
I will add my prayers to yours for you to share this blessing.
Where are your experences Nick. Did I tell you when the doctor told me that I had about 5 years to live. The Holy Spirit came and lifted me up for two weeks. When I got back to work I just had to tell everyone of my experence, it was just overwhelming. Well Satan didn't like that so he tarted wispering in some of the other employees ears. They went up to the big boss' office and complaind I was making too much money. But the thing is I had been making the same amount for about 5 years and they knew it. Why did they wait until now? I love making Satan mad.
If the Holy Spirit used you then tell me of your experence.
Nick,Did you know that the Holy Spirit will teach you and the person your talking to at the same time.
Hi ,
The rains soaks into any ground that is thirsty. Jesus said in Jn 7.37
“If anyone is thirsty let him come to me and drink…”
and Paul said
Heb 6.7f
” For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned”Quote (Woutlaw @ Nov. 22 2005,18:28) Mr. Hassan you are a gentlemen and a scholar. I appreciate your speedy responses. But what i'm saying in regards to the tongues is that i believe there is a counterfeit out there. for everyreal thing there is always a counterfeit. If the True Spirit of God is being poured out on all these different churches, then where is the LOVE? Where is the UNITY? I thank God i left “organized christianity” because there is anything but LOVE and UNITY? If these people really have the Spirit, then why are we still quarreling over water baptism? over the Godhead? Gifts of the Spirit? Etc. I still go back and look at the 1st century bretheren. Again they had something we don't have………I have a problem with people that say that you have to do all this praying for the Holy Spirit! Especially those in the United Pentecostal Church. Now the scriptures says that it is a gift. If it is a gift, then why are people at alters throughout our land every Sunday praying for hours for this experience? in the latter part of Acts 5:32 Peter said that God gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey him. besides praying for hours for this experience, many people are encouraged to chant certain words (such as Hallelujah) at a fast pace. THIS IS HOGWASH. Many of these churches also teach unGodly practices such as SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT, which is unbiblical, Holy Laughter and all other kinds of crap. I know this i was recently studying and attending a UPC congregation. My wife, who doesn't want anything to do with Christianity, grew up in the Oneness Pentecostal faith. was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. went to the alter to pray for it numerous times. She fasted, tarried, never got it.She sought it with all her heart. But she said many of her teenage friends who where drinking, having sex and all other kinds of crap got it. and the sad part is that she said they were still living like this after they got it. Now either we're dealing with a hoax, or if this is the real Holy Spirit, then the doctrine of Predestination is true. God only wants certain people whom he has predestined. I would appreciate any feedback. [email protected][email protected]
Satan can impersonate spiritual gifts, Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, copying many of the signs he performed in order to weaken his credibilty.
In Matt 24 it warns of many false christs (anointed ones) and false prophets (preachers of the Word). I believe these are the many antichrists that were even in the early church beginning to manifest. The wolves in sheeps clothing that Jesus warned of. The grevious wolves Paul spoke of.
Paul tells us Satan himself masquerades as an angel of Light. (His former name is Lucifer – The Lighted One) Exekiel says of him that he is the anointed cherub that covereth and I (GOD) have set thee so.
In other words God set him up with this power and influence.
He showed his true colors in betraying God, revealing his lack of real character.These impersonators of tongues often speak in genuine tongues under a genuine anointing, yet their word and testimony of their life contradicts this.
Read Deut 13:1-3 for more light on this.
Hi Malcolm,
Are you saying this aspect of the Holy Spirit's nature is no longer available to men?Certainly there are
False gospels
False teachers
False apostles
False pastors and
False giftsBut the body of Christ with all the gifts and fruits of that Spirit has not left the earth as was promised. Men have declined God's helps.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2006,20:09) Hi Malcolm,
Are you saying this aspect of the Holy Spirit's nature is no longer available to men?Certainly there are
False gospels
False teachers
False apostles
False pastors and
False giftsBut the body of Christ with all the gifts and fruits of that Spirit has not left the earth as was promised. Men have declined God's helps.
No way Nick
Because people make counterfiet dollars do we stop using money?Quote Hi,
Must those following the way of Jesus be proven by speaking in tongues or miracles?
It is surely more important that they manifest Christ in them in the fruit of the love of God, the love of righteousness, love of truth by abiding in the Word.Hi,
A vital gift for communication with our God.Rom 8
” 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God”
There is two tongues mentioned in scripture. One is the gift of tongues that is for the edification of the Church. This tongue is always followed by interpretation and if there is not an interpreter present, then it is not to be allow occur. In other words, it is to be suppressed.
The other tongue spoken of is not the gift of tongues, but the manifestation of tongues. This is given to every one who receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is for or personal prayer life.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
I don't personally speak in tongues…. My mother does and so do many friends of mine. I am told I should and that it is the intial evidence.
I have always believed that the bible describes two types of tongues. Like what you are saying Heiscomingintheclouds.
I have interpreted it a bit different, however, I think you may have a better understanding with this subject, because I confess I don't know as much as i should on it.
My understanding is that the gift is divided between these two functions:
1) A supernatural ability to be heard and understood while speaking in a real world language by someone whom you normally could not speak with. Like in Acts chapter 2.
2) A prophetic prayer language that can't be understood without an interepter. However, I thought that you could still use this prayer language privately for self edification, but if in public it needs an interpreter to edify the whole church.
Dear Mercy,
The tongues that is for the prayer language is not going to be understood, for it is the Holy Spirit of God praying the perfect prayer. We who are imperfect cannot comprehend that which is perfect. This tongue is by faith. It is step in faith. Many consider it giberish, and it is because in some instances, where a church is not standing in God's Word and they are not doing things in accordance with the Holy Writ, it is possible they are giving heed to seducing spirits.
For instance, there was a situation where a catholic college was practicing tongues. And because they were not baptized as according to the Holy Writ, they gave heed to seducing spirits. This is why the catholic church hundreds of years ago abandoned the practice of speaking in tongues. And began to doubt it's authentcity in the church. Yet, it was not that it did not belong in the church, it was that they had corrupted the baptism on how it was suppose to be received according to God's Word.
Anyway, this students began speaking in tongues and were professing that they were receiving messages from Mary, the mother of Jesus. It was not Mary, the mother of Jesus, but a seducing spirit. And many times this same thing has happened to those who claimed they spoke in tongues, but did not receive the baptism as it was suppose to be done according to God's Holy Word. It is to be given with the laying on of hands by the Presbytery and annointing of oil and the person is baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Sometimes the person being speaking in tongues immediately without being shown scripture, because the Holy Spirit comes upon them so strongly. And then times it is encouraged. What I mean by that is we are the vessel. And it is faith and we give the utterance. The Lord says we are to come to him as children. When children receive the baptism, they speak in tongues almost immediately, because their minds are not filled with the doubts planted by the world. Those who stuggle with receiving their prayer tongue is because they doubt, instead of believe. It is the devil who plants the seeds of doubt. He knows how much more powerful a believer's stand will be in the faith when the believer has this prayer life. Because the Holy Spirit of God intercedes for us. The Holy Spirit of God sees into the future and knows what is facing us and prepares us for any problems that may lie ahead.
As for the gift of tongues, often times it has come in the form of another lanquage. Most of the time it comes in tongues of angels and an interpertor is needed.
I was at a service where we had a man stand up and speak in tongues and it was stange, because the interpreter was not present. After the service was over, there was a woman who had come to our church for the first time and she heard us talking about how the message came, but without interpretation. She then told us that she understood every word and that it was in here native tongue. I don't recall what language it was, but the interesting thing of this is that if there is not an interpreter present, the person who feels the movement of the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues is to suppress it. Yet, this man was overcome with the Holy Spirit, knowing there was no interpreter, but the Lord knew. It was powerful.
Our prayer is private and should be done in our prayer closet for it is between us and God only.
Prayer language:
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT UNTO MEN, BUT UNTO GOD: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
Gift of tongues:
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by TWO, OR AT THE MOST THREE, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.Not everyone has the GIFT of tongues:
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? “do all speak with tongues?” do all interpret?The gift of tongues I have a problem with scripture says for it to be said by two or three at the most yet every church I visted EVERYONE was praying in tongues. Shouldn't these tongues be an earthly language that may not be understood by all people and a interpreter to interpret?
I see TV evanglist in foreign countries with an interpreter at their side yet they claim to have the GIFT of the Holy Spirit. If they have the GIFT of the Spirit then why would they need an interpreter?Quote I don't personally speak in tongues…. My mother does and so do many friends of mine. Quote My understanding is that the gift is divided between these two functions: 1) A supernatural ability to be heard and understood while speaking in a real world language by someone whom you normally could not speak with. Like in Acts chapter 2.
So, I'll assume that your mom doesn't have this ability. I'll assume she speaks things that no one can actually understand. Is that correct?
Quote (david @ Sep. 24 2006,02:51) Quote I don't personally speak in tongues…. My mother does and so do many friends of mine. Quote My understanding is that the gift is divided between these two functions: 1) A supernatural ability to be heard and understood while speaking in a real world language by someone whom you normally could not speak with. Like in Acts chapter 2.
So, I'll assume that your mom doesn't have this ability. I'll assume she speaks things that no one can actually understand. Is that correct?
Hi david,
This gift of the Spirit is mainly for private use and for communication with God for help with needs we may not even know that we have.Romans 8
“26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. “
Hi,
Paul was thankful to be highly blessed in this gift.
1Cor 14
” 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: “
1Cor 14
” 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself”and this we are encouraged to do.
Jude
“20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,”Because the purpose of this gift is to upbuild us.
Quote This gift of the Spirit is mainly for private use and for communication with God for help with needs we may not even know that we have. –Nick
“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and . . . to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)
When Jesus said the words quoted above in Acts 1:8, the small group of disciples did not include persons who spoke the languages of every part of the earth. But, true to Jesus’ promise, about 10 days later, on the festival day of Pentecost, the holy spirit was poured out on about 120 of his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem. The result? They“started to speak with different tongues” and so could proceed immediately to carry out the assigned work of witnessing.—Acts 2:1-4.
When those disciples gave a witness in Jerusalem at the festival of Pentecost, Jews and proselytes who had come from faraway places for the festival were heard to say:
“How is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? . . . we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:8-11)It is obvious that the tongues mentioned here were known languages, not unintelligible speech. And notice that the gift was used in harmony with the purpose for which Jesus said the spirit would be given, namely, to witness to others. It notably served that purpose, for “on that day about three thousand souls were added.”—Acts 2:41.
This was the needed purpose of the gift of tongues in the first century. A great preaching work was to be done and in order to increase the speed in the beginning, God gave this gift.
As for this scripture, Nick:
Quote Romans 8
“26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. ”
it doesn't have to be referring to speaking in tongues. In fact, it doesn't seem to suggest this at all. Even if we don't know what we should pray for, God knows the groanings of our spirit. He searches the heart and knows what is in our mind and heart, so words are not even necessary. And nor is gibberish.
God doesn't need to hear us speak gibberish to understand us. God obviously can understand any language and doesn't need language. Why oh why would he need gibberish?
The Bible makes it plain why the gift of the tongue was given for that time.david
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