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M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia says that it is “an uncontested statement that during the first hundred years after the death of the apostles we hear little or nothing of the working of miracles by the early Christians.” (Vol. VI, p. 320)
“Whether there are tongues, they will be done away with.”
Nevertheless, Jesus and his apostles warned of future deceptive powerful works that would be done by apostates and also by a symbolic wild beast, enemies of God.—Mt 7:21-23; 24:23-25; 2Th 2:9, 10; Re 13:11-13
Hi david,
So God lost power or men lost faith?
Wes hould not draw conclusions from inference.
The Spirit of power is ever accessible.[Acts 2.38-39, Lk11]Gift of Tongues
I am no expert at all but God has answered my prayers in this reguard and therefore would like to share this with those that wish to hear or read.
I have experencied the gift of Tongues only once myself with another. I was making a acceptance speach after my Baptism. I had just starting speaking the truth and the Holy Ghost came to me and added power to my speach, which I was doing as it came to me. After the speach an Iranian Man came up to me and asked what part of World I came from? He said in bad English how he understood very little English but he understood everything I had said. He looked at me very confused as to how this was possible? I later learned how this is possible. The Holy Ghost can translate any language to another and communicate it to another in his language as quickly as any can even think it. This how others seem to think the other is speaking in his “Tongue” as in the day of Pentecost.
This can be done on one to one or one to many thousands all at same time.
As I understand it also “Speaking in Tongues” is the ability to speak Mentally one to another. This is how God recieves our Prayers. He sees our thoughts even if we verbalize them it is our thoughts that he recieves. He also communicates to Angels threw the mind. He has not time for words and verbalizations. The Holy Ghost takes all these thoughts and Speeds them up a Billion times or more and gives them to God then god answers a billion times faster then we gave them. It is hard to imagine this Speed but this is the best way I can describe what he showed me.
I asked how he may hear my prayer over so many others, Billions on this Planet, all Calling his Name. He showed me a vision of him and the twlelve with him facing the 12 and communicating at a meeting. All had thrones a various hieghts gods back was to me and I viewed the 12 face on. At first it seemed like all were speaking at same time but then he slowed down their time or speed up mine? not sure? But I saw him go down line individually speaking with each and then it went back to his speed and all was a blurr again. There is no room for words only thought. Thoughts can contain much more than words as a thought can have a picture of what the person is trying to speak on as well as the verbal element.
Another point that may be hard to explain is Heaven has no air. So verbal speach is not possible. Moving of Lips and reading such maybe but the Ether Medium of Heaven doesn't not carry sound waves so Angels communicate by “Tongues”
Some may see the Logic in this and other may argue that I'm a Loon but I write this as God has shown me, Nothing more. I am very littled learned in the bible so I can not argue scriptures with you. I have seen passages that state Moses heard gods voice mentally but Don't have the Quote of chapter and verse as the learned may. So please take my Ramblings as they are and if you feel this is true or not ask of the Lord not of me to explain more than I'm able.Hi and welcome K8,
1 Corinthians 13:1
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.Hi Kimba,
Welcome to this wonderful family of Heavennet. A Wonderful experience on gift of tongues. Even I have one but I can not interpret the tongues. I only pray to God in tongues, some times without any words only in tears and groanings. I experienced this few times in my life when I interceded for others who are far away from me.
Thanks and blessings
AdamHi,
The gift of tongues is for edification of the individual.[1Cor14]
It is for upbuilding ourselves.[Jude20]
It bypasses the carnal mind and speaks directly to God.[Rom8. 1Cor 14]
It is to be eagerly sought and should be highly valued. [1Cor 12-14]Man needs this grace desperately to gain abilities to see in the heavenly realms.
As with all gifts it can be sought.[Lk11] We do not have often because we do not ask.[Jas]
Quote Hi,
The gift of tongues is for edification of the individual.[1Cor14]
It is for upbuilding ourselves.[Jude20]
It bypasses the carnal mind and speaks directly to God.[Rom8. 1Cor 14]
It is to be eagerly sought and should be highly valued. [1Cor 12-14]Man needs this grace desperately to gain abilities to see in the heavenly realms.
As with all gifts it can be sought.[Lk11] We do not have often because we do not ask.[Jas]
And that “gift” today is in no way similar to what the earliest Christians practiced, which included speaking in “different tongues” or languages.
M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia says that it is “an uncontested statement that during the first hundred years after the death of the apostles we hear little or nothing of the working of miracles by the early Christians.” (Vol. VI, p. 320)
“Whether there are tongues, they will be done away with.”
Nevertheless, Jesus and his apostles warned of future deceptive powerful works that would be done by apostates and also by a symbolic wild beast, enemies of God.—Mt 7:21-23; 24:23-25; 2Th 2:9, 10; Re 13:11-13
Good question brother Nick, often many churches in Christianity misguide people by quoting 1 Cor 13.
Quote Hi david,
So what you have not seen or experienced has been done away with?Nick, it has not been done away with because I have not seen it. It was done away with, as the Bible said it would be, because it fulfilled its stated purpose.
The babbling that goes on today, I have seen. It does not compare to the miraculous speaking in “different tongues” as was seen in the first century which apparently ceased.M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia says that it is “an uncontested statement that during the first hundred years after the death of the apostles we hear little or nothing of the working of miracles by the early Christians.” (Vol. VI, p. 320)
Hi david,
So when Peter showed the gifts of the Holy Spirit in action in Joel 2 have they yet occurred?
If not how can you say they have been done away with?Hi david,
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Quote 8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
If tongues still existed, wouldn't we see this?
It seems we only see people babbling incoherently.
Why do we not see this?Quote So when Peter showed the gifts of the Holy Spirit in action in Joel 2 have they yet occurred?
If not how can you say they have been done away with?
Are you referring to verse 17?These powers were “missing in the 2nd-century church, the writers of those days speaking of them as a thing in the past—in the apostolic age, in fact.”—The Illustrated Bible Dictionary, edited by J. D. Douglas, 1980, Vol. 1, p. 79.
It is “an uncontested statement that during the first hundred years after the death of the apostles we hear little or nothing of the working of miracles by the early Christians.” (M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia Vol. VI, p. 320)
It seems they vanished. And further, what we see today is not in line with the scripture I quoted above.
Hi david,
When I was beginning in the ways of the Spirit I was in a group that included a Maori man who was very cynical about this gift of tongues given by the laying on of hands. He was convinced however when what may have sounded unintelligible to us he recognised as the OUR FATHER spoken in Maori.Quote (dirtyknections @ June 30 2008,10:24) THis is from a previous Post of mine…please show how this is incorrect “In the first six letters, all written during the period covered by the Book of Acts, we find that the sign gifts were operating in all these churches. All through the Book of Acts we read of tongues, the gift of prophecy, the gift of healing, etc.—for example, tongues and prophecy in Acts 19:6, the gift of prophecy in Acts 21:10-14, the gift of healing in Acts 19:11-12 and 28:8,9, etc.
And in the “Acts Epistles” we read of the gifts operating in the churches that Paul founded. In Galatians 3:5, 1 Thessalonians 5:20, 1 Corinthians 12,13,14, 2 Corinthians 12:12, Romans 12:6—in all these letters we read about the gifts in operation right through to the end of the Book of Acts.
But, during this time in the Book of Acts, the Lord revealed to Paul that the sign gifts were going to cease—1 Corinthians 13:8-12. The gifts were all in operation all through the Book of Acts period and are mentioned in the letters written during that time, but the Lord had revealed that the sign gifts were going to cease at some time in the future.
When the gift of tongues ceasedNow we turn to the prison epistles, the four letters written shortly after the end of the Book of Acts, while Paul was a prisoner in Rome—Ephesians, Colossians, Philemon and Philippians…and we find that there is not one word about tongues, or the gift of healing. Even where we might have expected Paul to write of tongues in the passage about being “filled with the Spirit” in Ephesians 5:17, he has nothing to say about tongues. And as for the gift of healing, we read of a co-worker of Paul's, Epaphroditus, who fell seriously ill during this time (Phil. 2:25-30) and Paul no longer had the gift of healing, and was no longer able to heal as he did only a few years earlier in Acts 28:9. The sign gifts were no longer operating at the time that Paul wrote the Prison Epistles.
Tongues in the Pastoral Epistles?In the 3 Pastoral Epistles, as in the prison epistles, we do not read of tongues or the gift of healing operating at this time. We do read of prophecies that had been made about Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:18 and 4:14 and 2 Timothy 1:6, but these were given years before. So far as we read in these three letters, we wouldn't even know that there had been a “gift of tongues.”
And, again, in places where we would have expected Paul to mention the sign gifts, he is silent. When Paul gives Timothy and Titus instructions regarding the choice of men to be elders in the churches, Paul says nothing about the desirability of these men having a gift such as prophecy, or healing, or other sign gifts (see Titus 1:6-9 and 1 Tim. 3:1-10). The gifts of tongues, prophecy, etc. were no longer in operation by the time Paul wrote the pastoral epistles.
It is clear that the gift of healing has ceased because, as in Philippians, Paul was no longer able to heal, even his co-workers. Timothy was suffering stomach problems and frequent infirmities (1 Tim. 5:23) and Paul can't heal him, doesn't recommend that he go to a healer in the church, doesn't send a prayer cloth or a bottle of anointing oil (remember the miracles of some 8 years earlier in Acts 19:11-12). Likewise in 2 Timothy 4:20, Paul has to leave behind his co-worker Trophimus who had fallen sick on the last journey. Paul's gift of healing (Acts 28:9) was no longer operating in Philippians 2:27, 1 Timothy 5:23 and 2 Timothy 4:20.
SummaryThe sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, the gift of healing, etc. were operating all through the Book of Acts, and these gifts are mentioned in the letters that Paul wrote during the Acts period. But when we turn to the letters written after the Book of Acts—the 4 Prison Epistles, and the 3 Pastoral Epistles, we find that the sign gifts either aren't mentioned at all or we see—as with the gift of healing—that they were no longer operating in Paul's life. What he could do in Acts 28, he could no longer do in Philippians, or in 1 and 2 Timothy. He could heal all the sick on the island in Acts 28:9, but he couldn't heal any of his closest co-workers—Timothy, Epaphroditus, Trophimus—after the close of the Book of Acts.
Arranging Paul's letters in the order that he wrote them allows us to see the pattern of truth that is found in the Word of God:
The sign gifts were operating in Acts and in all of the Acts Epistles: Galatians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians and Romans.
But in this time period, in 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, Paul tells us that the Lord had revealed to him that these gifts would cease some day. And they did, because in the letters written after the Book of Acts, the sign gifts had ceased, just as the Lord said that they would.
The pattern could not be clearer, and the contrast could not be sharper between the earlier letters and the later letters, between the time when all the sign gifts were operating, and the time when all the sign gifts had ceased.
We can now give a scriptural answer to the question that we started with: when did the sign gifts cease?
The answer: The sign gifts ceased at the end of the Book of Acts. There is no record in Scripture of any of the sign gifts operating in any of the letters that Paul wrote after the end of the Acts period, and it is clear that the gift of healing had ceased since Paul could no longer heal even his closest co-workers after the close of the Book of Acts. “
Hi DK,
We should not make assumptions and add words to scripture to make doctrinal statements.
None of the books you quoted say the gifts had ceased.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 16 2008,05:54) Hi DK,
We should not make assumptions and add words to scripture to make doctrinal statements.
None of the books you quoted say the gifts had ceased.
are you referring to my posts…or davids
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