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Sure, DK we can agree to disagree.
You quoted 1 Cor 13:13 (and these three remain…) but I've noticed that chapter 14 is on the gifts of prophecy and tongues – go figure.
Keep in mind Paul also said:
1 Cor. 1:7
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for the our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.The Lord has not been revealed yet. We still need these gifts so that we can remain strong until the end.
Quote (Irene @ June 27 2008,18:28) Did you ever think that right now is only a testing ground what really for those that will be teachers and Priests in the Millenium.
I definitely believe we are in training for something.But I'll be happy just to keep the gardens in the new World.
Hi Many,
Denying the gifts of Holy Spirit is the old misconception again, Jesus' ministry and all the Apostles' ministry was accompanied by the manifestation of gifts of the Spirit. God has promosed in Joel 2 that He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh..your sons and daughters will prophesy. If anybody misses these great gifts he can not be a part taker of God's power in his life.
Love to you
AdamAdam,
We are also told we will do greater things than they did! If they had the gifts and did great things, it only stand to reason that we would still have the gifts and do greater things through them. If we follow DK's line of logic, we can only do greater things because we now have the scriptures, however they also had scriptures back then (the OT AND Pauls letters).
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2008,04:16) Adam, We are also told we will do greater things than they did! If they had the gifts and did great things, it only stand to reason that we would still have the gifts and do greater things through them. If we follow DK's line of logic, we can only do greater things because we now have the scriptures, however they also had scriptures back then (the OT AND Pauls letters).
The greater things we shall do are related to the preaching work…not individual displays of gifts..just my 2 cents
Yes, but also the preaching work included miracles and displays of God's power.
Jesus was attributed to us by these things as he preached. We will follow and do greater?
“My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the Spirit, but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God.”—1 John 4:1, Today’s English Version.
“Beloved ones . . . test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.” (Acts 17:11; See also 1 Thes 5:20,21)
Even in the first century, the apostle Paul was compelled to write the congregation in Corinth to correct their view of why the gift of tongues was given to early Christians. Seemingly, some had become fascinated with the gift of tongues, and they were acting like little children, spiritually immature. Too much importance was being attached to “tongues.” (1 Corinthians 14:1-39) Paul emphasized that not all Christians in the first century spoke in miraculous tongues. It was not necessary to their salvation. Even back then when it existed, the gift of tongues was secondary to miraculous prophesying. Speaking in tongues was not, and is not, a requirement for Christians to gain everlasting life.—1 Corinthians 12:29, 30; 14:4, 5.
Among those ‘speaking in tongues’ today are Pentecostals and Baptists, also Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and Presbyterians, and a few others such as Nick.SOME QUESTIONS TO PONDER for people who like to ponder:
In the first century, the miraculous gifts of the spirit, including the ability to “speak in tongues,” verified that God’s favor had shifted from the 1500 year old Jewish system of worship to the newly established Christian congregation. Is that not what Hebrews 2:2-4 says? Since that objective was accomplished in the first century, is it necessary to prove the same thing again and again in our day?
In the first century, the ability to “speak in tongues” gave impetus to the international work of witnessing that Jesus had commissioned his followers to do. (Acts 1:8; 2:1-11; Matt. 28:19) It was a practical means to spread the good news on an international scale in a short time, contributing to the numerical growth and upbuilding of the infant congregation of Christians. Is that how those who “speak in tongues” use that ability today?
In the first century, when Christians ‘spoke in tongues,’ what they said had meaning to people who knew those languages. (Acts 2:4, 8) Today, is it not true that ‘speaking in tongues’ usually involves an ecstatic outburst of unintelligible sounds?
In the first century, the Bible shows, congregations were to limit the ‘speaking in tongues’ to two or three persons who might do that at any given meeting; they were to do it “each in turn,” and if there was no interpreter present they were to keep silent. (1 Cor. 14:27, 28, RS) Is that what is being done today?
THESE QUESTIONS DESERVE MORE THAN A CURSORY ANSWER. Why? Because we want our worship to have God’s approval and blessing. We must make sure we are not deceiving ourselves or being deceived. We must therefore put what the Bible says ahead of our personal experience, as hard as that is to do.
ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS TODAY IDENTIFIED BY THE ABILITY TO “SPEAK IN TONGUES?”
John 13:35: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”
Love is the primary fruitage of God’s holy spirit; the others are “joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.” (I’ve wondered how self-controlled a person is when they are knocked off their chairs and shout in different tongues. And I wonder who is controlling them? Sometimes, it looks more like they’re almost being attacked to me. Is that God’s spirit in action?)1 Cor. 13:1, 8: “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal. Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease.”
JESUS SAID THAT HOLY SPIRIT WOULD COME UPON HIS FOLLOWERS and that they would be witnesses of him to the MOST DISTANT PART OF THE EARTH. (Read Acts 1:8) He instructed them to “make disciples of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19) He also foretold that ‘this good news of the kingdom would be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all nations.’ (Matt. 24:14) In harmony with what Jesus said, should we not look for this as an evidence that a group has holy spirit?
DOES NOT Mark 16:17, 18 (KJ) SHOW THAT THE ABILITY TO “SPEAK WITH NEW TONGUES” WOULD BE A SIGN IDENTIFYING BELIEVERS?
It should be noted that these verses refer not only to ‘speaking with new tongues’ but also to handling serpents and drinking deadly poison. Are all who “speak in tongues” also encouraging these practices?
It should also be noted that these verses are not accepted by all Bible scholars.
These verses appear in certain Bible manuscripts and versions of the fifth and sixth centuries C.E. But they do not appear in the older Greek manuscripts, the Sinaiticus and Vatican MS. 1209 of the fourth century. Dr. B. F. Westcott, an authority on Bible manuscripts, said that “the verses . . . are no part of the original narrative but an appendage.” (An Introduction to the Study of the Gospels, London, 1881, p. 338) Bible translator Jerome, in the fifth century, said that “almost all the Greek codices [are] without this passage.” (The Last Twelve Verses of the Gospel According to S. Mark, London, 1871, J. W. Burgon, p. 53) The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) says: “Its vocabulary and style differ so radically from the rest of the Gospel that it hardly seems possible Mark himself composed it [that is, verses 9-20].” (Vol. IX, p. 240) Tregelles, a noted nineteenth-century Bible scholar, states: “Eusebius, Gregory of Nyssa, Victor of Antioch, Severus of Antioch, Jerome, as well as other writers, especially Greeks, testify that these verses were not written by St. Mark, or not found in the best copies.”
There is no record that early Christians either drank poison or handled serpents to prove they were believers.
But even if these words were part of Mark’s inspired writings (although the bulk of evidence shows they are not) there is nothing in them contrary to the Scriptural evidence that tongues would pass away following the death of the apostles. (See below.)CAN THE ABILITY TO “SPEAK IN TONGUES” COME FROM A SOURCE OTHER THAN THE TRUE GOD?
Of course. But we all know this, so let’s be brief:
The Bible itself warns that Satan and his demons are able to influence people and control their speech. (Acts 16:17, 18) Jesus acted against a demonic spirit that had moved a man to shout and fall to the floor. (Luke 4:33-35) Paul warned that ‘Satan would transform himself into an angel of light.’ (2 Corinthians 11:14) We are warned that Satan would use “every powerful work and lying signs and portents.”—2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10. (See also 1 John 4:1; Mat 7:21-23)
Did you know that speaking in tongues was a part of certain pagan religions of Greece in Paul’s day? Their rites mixed speaking in tongues with practices such as the cutting of the flesh and frenzied nude dancing. Such historical examples clearly show that speaking in tongues can occur under influences that are most unholy.
A joint statement by the Fountain Trust and the Church of England Evangelical Council admitted: “We are also aware that a similar phenomenon can occur under occult/demonic influence.” (Gospel and Spirit, April 1977, published by the Fountain Trust and the Church of England Evangelical Council, p. 12) The book Religious Movements in Contemporary America (edited by Irving I. Zaretsky and Mark P. Leone, quoting L. P. Gerlach) reports that in Haiti ‘speaking in tongues’ is characteristic of both Pentecostal and Voodoo religions.—(Princeton, N.J.; 1974), p. 693; see also 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10.IF THE SPEAKING IN TONGUES THAT WE SEE TODAY WAS FROM GOD, WOULDN’T IT BE VERY SIMILAR IN APPEARANCE AND PURPOSE
TO THE SPEAKING IN TONGUES THAT WAS SEEN IN THE FIRST CENTURY?NICK writes on Oct 1, “It seems very common to deny the power of God among God's people. . . .God has not changed or changed His mind about His blessings given to help man.”
Then why is the speaking in tongues of today so different in purpose and appearance? God does not change. But speaking in tongues has changed. What does this tell us? (Mat 7:22,23)WHY THE GIFT OF TONGUES?
First of all, the apostle Paul explains at Hebrews 2:2-4 that the miraculous gifts, which would include the gift of tongues, were given to the first-century Christians to verify that God’s favor had shifted from the old Jewish arrangement for worship to the newly established Christian congregation. The shift of divine favor was well established by the latter part of the first century, while some of the apostles of Jesus Christ were yet alive.
That the gift of tongues also served another purpose can be seen from Jesus’ words to his disciples shortly before his ascension to heaven in 33 C.E.
He said:
“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and . . . to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)
Notice that he thus gave indication of just how this monumental witness work would be accomplished—with the assistance of the holy spirit.
When Jesus said the words quoted above in Acts 1:8, the small group of disciples did not include persons who spoke the languages of every part of the earth. But, true to Jesus’ promise, about 10 days later, on the festival day of Pentecost, the holy spirit was poured out on about 120 of his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem. The result? They “started to speak with different tongues” and so could proceed immediately to carry out the assigned work of witnessing.—Acts 2:1-4.
Modern communication technology that enables us to send messages earth wide in many languages did not exist back then. The good news had to be spread primarily by word of mouth, and in this the miraculous gift of speaking in foreign tongues would prove very helpful. Such was the case as first-century Christians preached to Jews and proselytes in Jerusalem at Pentecost 33 C.E. Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Cretans, Arabians, inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, and the district of Asia, as well as sojourners from Rome, heard “the magnificent things of God” in their own language and understood what was said. Three thousand quickly became believers.—Acts 2:5-11, 41Why The Gibberish? WHY THE GIBBERISH?
WHY?
When those disciples gave a witness in Jerusalem at the festival of Pentecost, Jews and proselytes who had come from faraway places for the festival were heard to say:
“How is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? . . . we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:8-11)
It is obvious that the tongues mentioned here were known languages, not unintelligible speech. And notice that the gift was used in harmony with the purpose for which Jesus said the spirit would be given, namely, to witness to others. It notably served that purpose, for “on that day about three thousand souls were added.”—Acts 2:41.
In the first-century, stress was laid on the need to interpret clearly the message conveyed in tongues so that it could be understood by all and result in the edification of many. (1 Corinthians 14:26-33) Paul admonished: “Unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.”—1 Corinthians 14:9.
While the spirit of God granted early Christians the gift of tongues, it did not cause them to speak unintelligible or untranslatable gibberish. In harmony with Paul’s counsel, the holy spirit provided speech that resulted in the good news being more quickly “preached in all creation that is under heaven.”—Colossians 1:23.
As in the first century, all creation must hear the message of the Kingdom. (Mk 13:10) This is possible because the Bible has now been translated, in whole or in part, into almost 2,000 LANGUAGES. The same spirit that infused early Christians to speak boldly and courageously is now supporting this wondrous preaching work today. By word of mouth and by using modern printing technology to make available Scriptural truth by the printed page this message is going out to over 230 countries and islands of the sea.Again, Reasons for speaking in tongues:
1. In the infancy of the Christian congregation this gift assisted the limited number of disciples to instruct foreigners about “the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:5-11)
2. The gift of tongues served as a visible evidence of God’s favor upon this new Christian organization. (1 Cor. 14:22)“WHETHER THERE ARE TONGUES, THEY WILL CEASE”–WHEN?
In Corinthians 13, Paul goes on to show them the lowly position of tongues as compared with more important matters, especially the “surpassing way” of love. Even those blessed with the gift of tongues “become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal” if they do not exercise love, he explained. (1 Cor. 12:31; 13:1) And to emphasize the importance and permanence of love as compared to the miraculous gifts of the spirit, he wrote: “Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Cor. 13:8.
On the basis of Paul’s words here, there should be no question that the miraculous gifts of the spirit were to pass away. But when? It is argued by some that, since Paul said that ‘tongues are a sign to the unbelievers,’ they would not pass away until unbelievers passed away, that is, until there were no longer any unbelievers. (1 Cor. 14:22) But is that the point Paul is making in this thirteenth chapter? No, it is not. In this chapter he does not associate the cessation of tongues with unbelievers, but, rather, he is comparing the temporariness of the gifts of the spirit with the permanence of love; and he links the transitoriness of these gifts, not with unbelievers, but with the infancy of Christianity.
So after declaring, in verse 8, that the miraculous gifts of prophesying, tongues and knowledge are to be done away with, Paul shows that they were a feature of the babyhood of the Christian congregation. These special gifts of God were an identifying feature of Christianity in its infancy, but, as an adult does away with the traits of a babe, so the Bible shows that these special gifts, too, were to pass away. (1 Cor. 13:8-11)
In its infancy such miraculous gifts were needed to identify in a spectacular way that God’s favor had shifted from the Jewish nation and was now upon this new congregation of Christians. But, as Paul explained, when a man reaches adulthood he does away with “the traits of a babe.” So when the Christian congregation grew to adulthood, that is, reached maturity by becoming a recognized, established organization, these miraculous gifts passed away. Yet faith, hope and love remained as the distinguishing mark of true Christianity.—1 Cor. 13:9-13.
Regarding the transitoriness of the miraculous gifts M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia, Volume 10, page 484, says: “It thus appears that the miraculous gifts of the first days bestowed upon the Church for a definite purpose were gradually but quickly withdrawn from men when the apostles and those who had learned Christ from their lips had fallen asleep.”“THE SPIRIT WAS GIVEN”–How? And what does this tell us?
Acts 8:18 reveals that the gifts of the spirit were received “through the laying on of the hands of the APOSTLES.”
The Bible record reveals that when any miraculous gift of the spirit was transmitted, at least one of the 12 apostles or the apostle Paul was present. Read for your
self the reported cases when the gift of tongues accompanied the outpouring of holy spirit: Acts 2:1-4, 14; 10:44-48; 19:6. You will notice that in every case one or more of the apostles of Jesus Christ were present. The first of three recorded instances of speaking in tongues occurred among 120 of Jesus’ disciples gathered in Jerusalem at Pentecost 33 C.E. (Acts 2:1-4) Three and a half years later, while a group of uncircumcised Italians were listening to Peter preach, they received the spirit and began “speaking with tongues and magnifying God.” (Acts 10:44-48) And 19 years after Pentecost, about 52 C.E., Paul spoke to a group in Ephesus and laid his hands upon 12 disciples. They too “began speaking with tongues and prophesying.”—Acts 19:6.
Evidently, then, in accord with Acts 8:18, with the death of the last apostle, the passing on of the gifts of the spirit would stop—including speaking in tongues. Hence, when those who had received these gifts from the apostles also passed off the earthly scene, the miraculous gift would cease. By then the Christian congregation would have had time to become well established and would have spread to many lands. The gift of tongues had served its purpose. It had been well established that the Christian congregation had God’s favor and backing. Moreover, Christians had grown in number and had been dispersed to many lands, carrying the “good news” with them. ( Compare Col 1:23) Such a view agrees with the purpose of those gifts as stated at Hebrews 2:2-4.TODAY WE HAVE THE BIBLE
Some claim that God uses this gift when he wants to give a direct message to the people. But what message from God do we need today that Jesus Christ and the apostles did not supply for us? (2 Tim 3:16,17) The apostle Paul cautioned:: “Even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond [“at variance with,” The New English Bible] what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8) Now, if an apostle or an angel should not go beyond the good news recorded in the Bible, is a charismatic personality today authorized to do so?
Now that the Bible is complete and widely available, we have what we need in the Word of God. It allows us to gain an accurate knowledge of Jehovah and his Son that leads to everlasting life.—John 17:3; Revelation 22:18, 19.SOME LIKE TO POINT OUT THIS SCRIPTURE: 1 CORINTHIANS 14:2
Let’s look at it closely. There, Paul said: “For he that speaks in a tongue speaks, not to men, but to God.”
First of all, it should be noted that Paul is not here discussing private prayer but, rather, the use of the gift of tongues at a congregational meeting. (See 1 Corinthians 14:23.) Moreover, Paul’s words are in complete harmony with both the purpose for which the gift of tongues was given and the description of the gift given in the book of Acts. If you read the entire 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians, you will notice that
(1) the tongues referred to were known languages, not unintelligible speech, and
(2) the gift was to be used, not privately, but for the benefit of unbelievers.
Let us read verse 2 in its entirety. It states:
“FOR HE THAT SPEAKS IN A TONGUE SPEAKS, NOT TO MEN, BUT TO GOD, FOR NO ONE LISTENS, BUT HE SPEAKS SACRED SECRETS BY THE SPIRIT.”
The Greek word translated “tongue,” glōossa, is the same word as that used at Acts 2:4, 11, where it obviously has reference to known languages. The Greek word translated “listens” can denote hearing something without understanding what is stated. This can be better understood in the light of verses 13, 16 and 17 of 1 Corinthians, chapter 14, where we read:
“Therefore let the one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may translate. Otherwise, if you offer praise with a gift of the spirit, how will the man occupying the seat of the ordinary person [or, unbeliever; see verses 22-25.] say ‘Amen’ to your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? True, you give thanks in a fine way, but the other man is not being built up.”
SIMPLY PUT, THE ONE SPEAKING IN A TONGUE SPEAKS TO GOD RATHER THAN TO MEN IF THE MEN WHO ARE LISTENING DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HE IS SAYING. Paul had in mind not unintelligible speech but foreign languages that potentially COULD BE UNDERSTOOD BY OTHERS. But if, in fact, none of those present could understand the language and if there were no interpreters present, then the one who spoke the tongue should pray that he might translate it and thus build up others, especially the unbelievers. If there was no one to translate, then, as the scripture says, it would be better for him to keep silent.—1 Cor. 14:28.IS ‘SPEAKING IN TONGUES’ TO CONTINUE UNTIL THAT WHICH IS “PERFECT” COMES?
At 1 Corinthians 13:8 reference is made to several miraculous gifts—prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Verse 9 again refers to two of these gifts—knowledge and prophecy—saying: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” (KJ) Or, as RS reads: “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect.” Then verse 10 states: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (KJ) The word “perfect” is translated from the Greek téleion, which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. Ro, By, and NW here render it “complete.” Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be “imperfect,” “in part,” or partial. That is said of “prophecy” and “knowledge.” In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God’s purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God’s purpose would be accomplished, then “that which is perfect,” or complete, would come. So, this is obviously not discussing how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would continue.In researching this I found the…borean bible society…. has put together the best explanation on showing when the gifts of the spirit ceased…research them…here is an excerpt
“The sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, the gift of healing, etc. were operating all through the Book of Acts, and these gifts are mentioned in the letters that Paul wrote during the Acts period. But when we turn to the letters written after the Book of Acts—the 4 Prison Epistles, and the 3 Pastoral Epistles, we find that the sign gifts either aren't mentioned at all or we see—as with the gift of healing—that they were no longer operating in Paul's life. What he could do in Acts 28, he could no longer do in Philippians, or in 1 and 2 Timothy. He could heal all the sick on the island in Acts 28:9, but he couldn't heal any of his closest co-workers—Timothy, Epaphroditus, Trophimus—after the close of the Book of Acts.
Arranging Paul's letters in the order that he wrote them allows us to see the pattern of truth that is found in the Word of God:
The sign gifts were operating in Acts and in all of the Acts Epistles: Galatians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians and Romans.
But in this time period, in 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, Paul tells us that the Lord had revealed to him that these gifts would cease some day. And they did, because in the letters written after the Book of Acts, the sign gifts had ceased, just as the Lord said that they would.
The pattern could not be clearer, and the contrast could not be sharper between the earlier letters and the later letters, between the time when all the sign gifts were operating, and the time when all the sign gifts had ceased.
We can now give a scriptural answer to the question that we started with: when did the sign gifts cease?
The answer: The sign gifts ceased at the end of the Book of Acts. There is no record in Scripture of any of the sign gifts operating in any of the letters that Paul wrote after the end of the Acts period, and it is clear that the gift of healing had ceased since Paul could no longer heal even his closest co-workers after the close of the Book of Acts.”
Hi DK,
Good guess, but has God lost his powers to work though men?
The gift of the Spirit is promised through all the generations.
The Spirit remains a Spirit of Power. Are men the problem?Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,14:33) Hi DK,
Good guess, but has God lost his powers to work though men?
The gift of the Spirit is promised through all the generations.
The Spirit remains a Spirit of Power. Are men the problem?Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
The free gift of the holy spirit…is different from the “giftS of the holy spirit”Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,14:33) Hi DK,
Good guess, but has God lost his powers to work though men?
The gift of the Spirit is promised through all the generations.
The Spirit remains a Spirit of Power. Are men the problem?Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Men are not the problem…as I stated we do not need those gifts because we have all the things we need to complete us as Christians..those things areThe spirit
Love
The bible….
Thats why Paul said they would cease
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 28 2008,16:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,14:33) Hi DK,
Good guess, but has God lost his powers to work though men?
The gift of the Spirit is promised through all the generations.
The Spirit remains a Spirit of Power. Are men the problem?Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
The free gift of the holy spirit…is different from the “giftS of the holy spirit”
Hi DK,
Yes.
Paul said we should seek the gifts.
1Cor 12
31But covet earnestly the best gifts: ….Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,17:13) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 28 2008,16:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,14:33) Hi DK,
Good guess, but has God lost his powers to work though men?
The gift of the Spirit is promised through all the generations.
The Spirit remains a Spirit of Power. Are men the problem?Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
The free gift of the holy spirit…is different from the “giftS of the holy spirit”
Hi DK,
Yes.
Paul said we should seek the gifts.
1Cor 12
31But covet earnestly the best gifts: ….
The best of these that remain is love according to Paul at 1 cor 13:13Hi DK,
Agreed.
But why ignore all of the gifts on offer?
You may need them in the effective service of God.DK,
Even our faith is a gift from God.
Eph. 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God…….Quote Good guess, but has God lost his powers to work though men? I don't think anyone is saying he has nick?
Has God lost the power to create floods Nick? No. Yet, I don't see a flood out there. The flood had a purpose. The gift of the tongues, speaking in other languages had a definite purpose and was needed at that time.
Not denying God's power. He could make people speaks in tongues today if he wanted, or he could do whatever he wants.
Reasons for speaking in tongues:
1. In the infancy of the Christian congregation this gift assisted the limited number of disciples to instruct foreigners about “the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:5-11)
2. The gift of tongues served as a visible evidence of God’s favor upon this new Christian organization. (1 Cor. 14:22)“How is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? . . . we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:8-11)
At that time, there definitely was a need for this, to spread the word.Today, the word is being preached in many nations, tribes, and tongues, all over the world.
In the first century, when Christians ‘spoke in tongues,’ what they said had meaning to people who knew those languages. (Acts 2:4, 8) Today, is it not true that ‘speaking in tongues’ usually involves an ecstatic outburst of unintelligible sounds? Why the difference?
“WHETHER THERE ARE TONGUES, THEY WILL CEASE”
Quote Hi DK,
Agreed.
But why ignore all of the gifts on offer?
You may need them in the effective service of God.I know a lot of people that are learning Chinese for the sole purpose preaching the good news in manderin. There's a fairly large chinese population where I live. How will they be helped to hear the good news?
Is it by babbling gibberish that no one can understand? We also have special missionaries that are sent out, even to here, who speak fluent chinese. Classes are started. People learn the language.“How is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? . . . we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:8-11)
Back then, in the first century, they were speaking languages. If it was a language no one there understood, what was the point? But they were languages. Today, I don't really know of anyone what does or can do that. They just babble. It sounds like singing and it's not in understandable speech. It's not the same. It almost sounds demonic.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 29 2008,05:38) Indeed..I am talking about the things at 1 Cor ch 12 tho..those things have disappeared
Hi DK:You may believe that they have disappeared because you have not seen these gifts in operation in the church, but I can assure you that no, they have not disappeared, and they will not until the Lord comes back for the church.
During the church age these spiritual gifts are essential to the salvation of God's children. The gift of tongues is a prayer language which helps to edify that person when he does not know what he should pray. God can also speak to the church in a tongue in conjuction with an interpreter.
I have had God speak to me through prophets relative to ministry that God has for me and also about the salvation of my family. These prophecies help me to hold on to my faith when things are not going so well because I know that God's promises are true. He has forseen everything and so he can tell me of things to come.
Many will be saved when they see a healing miracle or when a prophet speaks to them something that only they know.
Here some scriptures that may help:
Quote 1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries Quote 1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Quote 1Cr 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Cr 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.These spiritual gifts are used to edify the church:
Quote 1Cr 14:26 ¶ How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
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