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Hi DK,
So you want to see resurrections and then you will believe scripture?
Taste and see…. the Lord is good.Hi DK,
The kingdom has less to do with knowledge than with power.
1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.Hi DK,
In fact those who deny power should check this verse.
2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,13:40) Hi DK,
So you want to see resurrections and then you will believe scripture?
Taste and see…. the Lord is good.
Nick…
You know thats NOT what I am saying…
What I am saying is that you are going to have bring me somebody freshly resurrected…to show that what Paul said would happen..hasn't happened yet….
If one gift is “dead” all of them are…
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,12:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,10:37) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,10:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,09:28) Hi DK,
1cor 13
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
So when did he say they would cease?
Opinion is no form of proof is it?If the dead are not now raised is it because there is no longer enough faith on the earth?
Luke 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
The dead are not raised now because those gifts would cease…you can't have some of the gifts “existing” and not them all…Believe Paul..Paul said they would cease
Hi DK,
When did he say these gifts would pass?
Next week or in 2000 years?God has not lost the ability to respond to faith
Those gifts ceasing…seem to have corresponded with the great apostacy..that Jesus said would arise…we know for a fact the apostles left no sucessors…and that the 1 century congregations were no more by 98 or so c.e.This things are exactly why we don't see those gifts anymore..Just as Paul said
Follow my scriptual reasoning on this Nick….Jesus said a “great apostacy” would arise…
Then he said the “wheat and tare” & “sheep and goat” would intermingle…
Paul said gifts would die out…..
Apostles left no sucessors…
Congregation…dissolved just as Jesus prophesied would happen when the “great apostacy” arose…
Which is why we no longer see..these gifts…
And another reason we don't see these gifts…especially prophesying and things of that nature is because we have this:
2 Timothy 3:16-18…16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I Believe Paul when he says this concerning these gifts and what there purpose WAS and what would happen to them…
1 Corinthians 13:13……. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
So Nick I advise you do this the next time your “gifts” manifest themselves..
1 John 4:1… 1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
and put this scripture in your pocket while you are at it…
2 Corinthians 11:14…14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Blessings
DK,
Again I think your reasoning is sad.
I personally have been given some pretty spectacular gifts from the LORD. Each have been used as he sees fit. They are used for good and not evil. They have been “verified” by those who benefit as being from the LORD and not from my imagination.
If a house be divided who could stand? If these gifts are promoting the kingdom than surely they are not satan/and or his demons “masquerading as angel's of light”? Right?
God's written word is inspired, no doubt. But God still inspires his children today. His inspiration didn't stop when the ink dried…..
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,17:29) DK, Again I think your reasoning is sad.
I personally have been given some pretty spectacular gifts from the LORD. Each have been used as he sees fit. They are used for good and not evil. They have been “verified” by those who benefit as being from the LORD and not from my imagination.
If a house be divided who could stand? If these gifts are promoting the kingdom than surely they are not satan/and or his demons “masquerading as angel's of light”? Right?
God's written word is inspired, no doubt. But God still inspires his children today. His inspiration didn't stop when the ink dried…..
Until you explain the gifts or events you are referring to I don't know how to answer…I am referring to these things…1 Corinthians 12…. 1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don't need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don't need you!” 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire[e] the greater gifts.
And now I will show you the most excellent way.Read this with an open mind and you will see why I say the things I say…pay attention to verse 8-13
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
What I am speaking of can be found in all the scriptures you have listed. There are many gifts and Jehovah gives them out as he wishes.
He has to equip his children for ministry. We are his hands, feet, mouth piece.
Simply put….we don't need these spectacular displays..to see and feel GOD's spirit..
29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,17:38) Read this with an open mind and you will see why I say the things I say…pay attention to verse 8-13 8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Yes, love is the ultimate goal and commandment.But all the gifts are still needed until we know……. we won't know all until Jesus returns.
Until then, we need tools to reach the lost. Gifts are given so that we may minister to one another and encourage one another. They are given as signs to unbeliever's. They are used in many wonderful ways as God sees fit.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,17:39) What I am speaking of can be found in all the scriptures you have listed. There are many gifts and Jehovah gives them out as he wishes. He has to equip his children for ministry. We are his hands, feet, mouth piece.
2 Timothy 3:16-18…16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,17:39) Simply put….we don't need these spectacular displays..to see and feel GOD's spirit.. 29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Perhaps we don't “need” them…..but when has anyone ever needed a “gift”.
The Father loves to give to his children.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,17:42) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,17:39) What I am speaking of can be found in all the scriptures you have listed. There are many gifts and Jehovah gives them out as he wishes. He has to equip his children for ministry. We are his hands, feet, mouth piece.
2 Timothy 3:16-18…16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
What you say is all true.But what about reaching out to a lonely senior? Can the word do that? Can the bible touch, feed, listen to a lonely soul?
God needs our abilities and our willingness to serve. In return he equips us with what we need to do the job. He gives us gifts.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,17:43) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,17:39) Simply put….we don't need these spectacular displays..to see and feel GOD's spirit.. 29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Perhaps we don't “need” them…..but when has anyone ever needed a “gift”. The Father loves to give to his children.
good point…But he gave us the greatest gift of all next to his son…i'll quote it again….
2 Timothy 3:16-18…16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
If you fully believe that scripture..and this one
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
…you will see why Paul prayed this to the Ephesus congregation..
Ephesians 3:14-19 …. 14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom his whole family[a] in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
I believe your quoted scriptures. But indeed being “filled to the measure of all the fullness of God” may include some pretty neat gifts along the way. True, love is the more excellent way. I believe Paul stressed that because if we have not love……we have nothing. Everything else is like a sounding “gong”.
If we have not love, how could we begin to minister to the family of God – even more to those who are waiting to join in? When they do join in we will need pastor's, teacher's, those with words of knowledge, and the list goes on. The bible is useful for everything you listed, however if no one is available to preach it OR teach it…..who will benefit?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,18:06) I believe your quoted scriptures. But indeed being “filled to the measure of all the fullness of God” may include some pretty neat gifts along the way. True, love is the more excellent way. I believe Paul stressed that because if we have not love……we have nothing. Everything else is like a sounding “gong”. If we have not love, how could we begin to minister to the family of God – even more to those who are waiting to join in? When they do join in we will need pastor's, teacher's, those with words of knowledge, and the list goes on. The bible is useful for everything you listed, however if no one is available to preach it OR teach it…..who will benefit?
Mandy! Did you ever think that right now is only a testing ground what really for those that will be teachers and Priests in the Millenium. Christ is teaching those right now, I believe. There is so much confusion about what the truth is, but when Jesus comes back He will have those with Him, the elect that will have the truth. When I read in Rev. 7 about the multitude of people from every tribe and every nation. The stand in front of the throne and the Lamb, clothed in white robes. They have washed their Robes white in the Blood of the Lamb. They that are alive will benefit from them. The truth will only be taught. It says that the truth will cover the earth like water covers the sea. So lets in Love go on and try to search out all truths, who knows if we one days be among those in Rev.7, that has always been a big Question for me. So onward Christians Soldiers……
IreneQuote (Irene @ June 27 2008,18:28) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,18:06) I believe your quoted scriptures. But indeed being “filled to the measure of all the fullness of God” may include some pretty neat gifts along the way. True, love is the more excellent way. I believe Paul stressed that because if we have not love……we have nothing. Everything else is like a sounding “gong”. If we have not love, how could we begin to minister to the family of God – even more to those who are waiting to join in? When they do join in we will need pastor's, teacher's, those with words of knowledge, and the list goes on. The bible is useful for everything you listed, however if no one is available to preach it OR teach it…..who will benefit?
Mandy! Did you ever think that right now is only a testing ground what really for those that will be teachers and Priests in the Millenium. Christ is teaching those right now, I believe. There is so much confusion about what the truth is, but when Jesus comes back He will have those with Him, the elect that will have the truth. When I read in Rev. 7 about the multitude of people from every tribe and every nation. The stand in front of the throne and the Lamb, clothed in white robes. They have washed their Robes white in the Blood of the Lamb. They that are alive will benefit from them. The truth will only be taught. It says that the truth will cover the earth like water covers the sea. So lets in Love go on and try to search out all truths, who knows if we one days be among those in Rev.7, that has always been a big Question for me. So onward Christians Soldiers……
Irene
AMEN!!Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,18:06) I believe your quoted scriptures. But indeed being “filled to the measure of all the fullness of God” may include some pretty neat gifts along the way. True, love is the more excellent way. I believe Paul stressed that because if we have not love……we have nothing. Everything else is like a sounding “gong”. If we have not love, how could we begin to minister to the family of God – even more to those who are waiting to join in? When they do join in we will need pastor's, teacher's, those with words of knowledge, and the list goes on. The bible is useful for everything you listed, however if no one is available to preach it OR teach it…..who will benefit?
The bible …says that all we need when they Join in..is GOD's spirit, his word the bible, and Love…The Reason? Those gifts would end…
But I guess lets just agree to disagree…
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