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Because of Cubes comment I thought we should expand this topic.
Paul spent quite a lot of time and energy writing about this subject. He seemed to suggest it was valuable to him and he wished all to share the blessing.
It is one of the signs that follow believers and this was evidenced throughout the book of Acts.
It is my view that there are false gifts too, and misuse of the gifts.
I have heard that there are two kinds of tongues and it seems reasonable:
1. One for edification of the self in prayer so that it needn't be public and in fact, ought to be private since noone else understands it or is edified by it. I believe Paul makes that point.
2. Then there is the Acts 2 occurrence which led to the salvation of 3000 because they heard their own languages. This is a sign to others, especially the unbeliever as Prophecy is…in the context Paul explains it.
I would expect both of these signs to be spontaneous, untaught and not something to practice. Since I have not had either of these experiences, I don't consider myself to speak in tongues.
I have heard testimonies of #2 though not many, and have heard others speaking in what they believed to be tongues.
Hi cubes,
Paul strongly valued his gift of tongues. He wanted all to share it's benefits.
As it says in 1Cor 14 and Rom 8 it is for communicating directly to God for needs we do not know we have. That is handy. It takes our spiritual situation out of our intellectual and mental control and frees the Spirit to build us up in areas we need help in [as Jude says]. Obviously without this gift we would not have this big advantage. We never see things even about ourselves entirely as God does.
Yes it is also a sign for others but should not be used out of order in group prayer as many do[as Paul warned in 1 Cor].Seek it in prayer cubes. It is helpful.
Hi, I am new to this site, so please forgive me if my comments are merely repeating someone elses thoughts previously.
The apostle Paul did speak of the value of speaking in tongues – but only if someone was available to translate.
1 Cor 13: 8 also tells us that the gift of speaking in tongues would cease.
1 Cor 14: 13 says that if someone is going to speak in tongues – let there be a translator present.
At Pentecost 33CE – the first recorded instance of anyone speaking in tongues in the bible – the 120 gathered there that received holy spirit then began to speak in tongues.
This was to the benefit of the many people gathered there at the time of the festival from various lands. The bible tells us in the book of Acts that these ones were impressed to hear the word of God being spoken in their own language.
Thus, the whole point of speaking in tongues in bible times was to spread the message to people who spoke languages other than Greek or Hebrew.
Speaking in tongues today is not necessary, as the Bible is translated in an enormous number of languages. The Bible is God's word, and that is the only message we need today, wouldn't you agree?Welcome nicki,
I agree with what you say about the public use of tongues. But the gift is essentially for private use. In 1 Cor 14.2 we are told it is for communicating with God and for edifying ourselves. Has that become unnecessary? I think not.Rather I think it is even more useful as our minds struggle to grasp heavenly things but the Spirit understands those things and knows our needs better than we know them our selves. The Spirit is able to speak for us to God about those needs.
Jude tells us to build ourselves up with such prayer and such exhortations are not limited but apply now too.
As for all the Spirtual Gifts they are not to be expected in the newborn babes that are on the milk. However, on the day of Pentacost the reason that the Apostles had these Gifts is because they were no longer on milk. The Gift couldn't be given or used in vain. I believe everyone can have these Gifts and desire so but only for doing the Will of the Father in Heaven which is told to us for the edification of the Church and to support the ministry. Like a father would not expect a child to have the responsibility to drive a car we shouldn't expect a newborn in the Family of God to have such Gifts. Now the Apostles were experienced after being taught by the Master such that the day of Pentacost is unlike any other since that is when the Comforter came upon the learned.
Paul
Hi ,
The gift of tongues was one of the signs that follow believers spoken of in Mk 16.16. It was poured out on the gathered disciples at Pentecost and also on new believers in Acts. I see no evidence that is only given to the mature in Christ. God pours out His Spirit to achieve His purposes and we have to learn to manage these wonderful gifts and that is why Paul explained so much about the Gifts in 1Cor 12-14-“the spirits of prophecy are subject to prophets”[1 cor 14.32].
Yes we are exhorted not to be children in our thinking with regard to the use of these gifts[1Cor14.20]but God wants these gifts available to all.
“Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues”1Cor 14.5I can only speak from my experience so that is what I will do. I have had only ONE tongues experience, the second kind as listed by Nick; the kind experienced by those on the Day of Pentecost. It was in a United Pentecostal Church (one of the most POWERFUL churches in the world, I might add, speaking in terms of the Holy Spirit). Of course, I knew nothing of this church and their beliefs and it was only through supernatural means that I found myself within its walls.
The UPC believes that one MUST be filled with the Holy Spirit and the sign is that of speaking in tongues. They tend to want to 'coerce' those who have repented (at the altar) into speaking in tongues and work very hard towards this goal. For this reason, I suspect that many otherwise sincere individuals have faked speaking in tongues. Of course, in many other denominations, fake tongues is quite common, an attempt to show holiness. I could not do so, however, as it just isn't in my nature. I have NEVER felt compelled to 'fit in' or be a follower. I have, in fact, always been a lone wolf, a rebel, a trailblazer, an eccentric. A word I have heard a lot is “weird”. Another nicer word I have been called is “different”. Therefore, I'm right at home being a 'heretic'.
Nevertheless, there was no tongues for me at the altar (though perhaps a 'forced' stammering of lips was acheived). I felt a washed over feeling, as being cleansed, and felt better about myself. However, I left town and state the next day, to go back to work on the pipeline (and back to my old worldly ways). Bad (and strange) things happened and I found myself making a vow to God. I went back home and proceeded to go back to this church. I decided 'out of the blue' that I would do a three day total fast (highly recommended!) beginning on Thursday and ending after services on Sunday. I also put my name in for a 3 hour prayership at the church that ended just as the evening services were beginning. Basically, I was just trying to show God my sincerity in trying to live for Him. Suprisingly, the three day fast was easy (just a couple sips of water during that time) but the 3 hours of praying were impossible. I found myself constantly dozing off and not knowing who or what to pray for (I ran out after about five minutes).
Services began and the hymn books were opened for the first couple of songs. I sound worse than a frog with laryngitis so I tried to sing along SOFTLY. Then, they began to sing a song that was not in the hymnal (one everyone is supposed to know). I'm sure that everyone has experienced this where you listen and try to sing along guessing what the next words will be. At any rate, all of a sudden it was as if a dam had broken inside of me and words began to gush out of their own accord. I could best describe the feeling as an artesian well bubbling forth from within me. Equally amazing, I was singing in FRENCH! Now, I'm of French descent and had even taken a year of French in high school so I recognized the language, but I could hardly write a short simple sentence let alone speak one. But here I was singing words that I did not understand (I assume that they were the words to the song but I have no way of knowing). It was not the words that impressed me, however, but the indescribable joy that flowed over me. To this day, I have yet to experience this kind of joy ever again. How glorious a feeling, one that lingers vividly in my memory even this 30 some odd years later.
Has tongues ceased? NO WAY, NO HOW! They may have ceased for me, but that gift is just as much a promise from God NOW as it was in the beginning. If you never experience this incredible joy, you'll never know just how much joy God wants you to have.
Immediately after this event, I KNEW that I was saved! I KNEW that I was a child of God. He LITERALLY filled me up…to OVERFLOWING! God made a life-long believer out of me. Though I burn in hell for my wickedness, I could NEVER blaspheme the Holy Ghost. No matter what anyone else believes, I am a sure-fire TESTAMENT to the Lord…He lives and His fire is UNQUENCHABLE!
Concerning gifts of the Holy Ghost, I was given several. The scariest one was the DISCERNING OF SPIRITS. It was scary because I found myself KNOWING when someone was working for the Lord and when someone was working for the devil. I was the kind who never really wanted to JUDGE someone and yet now found myself able to do so, albeit unwillingly (or, at least, uneasily). To see someone standing at the altar, arms raised, pretending to pray for a potential convert who had heeded the altar call, and KNOWING that he was working AGAINST this person being filled with the Holy Ghost was, as I said, a very scary GIFT…and one not particularly desirable.
Of course, this gift has helped me make right decisions several times in my life. I thank God that He found me worthy to entrust this precious gift to me.
I also believe that I have been given the gifts of faith, wisdom, and knowledge. The last two are perhaps the most dangerous. When humility is required to serve the Lord, we must take care not to become 'puffed up' with too much knowledge or wisdom. I surely don't want to come off as a “know-it-all” and I will be the first to tell you that I DON'T (know it all) but when you have been given wisdom and/or knowledge it is hard just to ignore it. Solomon is someone I can relate to but I fear what the final fate of Solomon was: did too much wisdom cause him to stray from the Lord? I pray that Solomon was found worthy (though scripture remains unclear on this matter) because it gives me hope if he was. God forgave David his egregious sins so I suspect that if Solomon asked for forgiveness, he received it, as well.
I don't know that tongues are a requirement for being filled with God's Spirit but I know that they are DESIRABLE and I know why Paul wanted everyone else to experience them.
Bic,
Thank you for this helpful post.“For the gifts and and the calling of God are irrevocable” Rom 11.29
Hi,
This is an amazing gift that shows us the reality of the Spirit living in us. You have to ask for and receive the gift but when you do it teaches you to release the Holy Spirit to control us and use us for God's purposes.
Jude 20
” But you, beloved, building yourself up on your most holy faith;praying in the Holy Spirit;”Hi,
I find this gift very helpful when I am uptight and stressed and find it brings back a sense of peace and freedom. I believe it is essentially for private use. What do others find?WHY THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES WAS GIVEN
First of all, the apostle Paul explains at Hebrews 2:2-4 that the miraculous gifts, which would include the gift of tongues, were given to the first-century Christians to verify that God’s favor had shifted from the old Jewish arrangement for worship to the newly established Christian congregation.
The shift of divine favor was well established by the latter part of the first century, while some of the apostles of Jesus Christ were yet alive.That the gift of tongues also served another purpose can be seen from Jesus’ words to his disciples shortly before his ascension to heaven in 33 C.E. He said:
“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)The small group of disciples did not include persons who spoke the languages of every part of the earth. But, true to Jesus’ promise, about 10 days later, on the festival day of Pentecost, the holy spirit was poured out on about 120 of his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem. The result? They “started to speak with different tongues” and so could proceed immediately to carry out the assigned work of witnessing.—Acts 2:1-4.
When those disciples gave a witness in Jerusalem at the festival of Pentecost, Jews and proselytes who had come from faraway places for the festival were heard to say:
“How is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? . . . we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 2:8-11)It is obvious that the tongues mentioned here were known languages, not unintelligible speech. And notice that the gift was used in harmony with the purpose for which Jesus said the spirit would be given, namely, to witness to others.
It notably served that purpose, for “on that day about three thousand souls were added.”—Acts 2:41.Another instance when the outpouring of holy spirit was accompanied by the gift of tongues is reported on at Acts 10:44-46. If you read the account you will notice that when God’s spirit fell upon the Gentile Cornelius and his household, they, too, began “speaking with tongues.” Commenting on what he had observed on that occasion, the apostle Peter said:
“But when I started to speak, the holy spirit fell upon them just as it did also upon us in the beginning.”So, according to Peter, the gift of tongues bestowed on that occasion was the same gift received several years previously at Pentecost—a miraculous ability to speak foreign languages. The Bible shows that the gift of tongues given to Cornelius and his household convinced Peter and those with him that God was now accepting uncircumcised Gentiles into the congregation. God was now using the Christian congregation.—Acts 11:15-18.
NICK pointed out 1 Corinthians 14:2. Did not Paul say, “For he that speaks in a tongue speaks, not to men, but to God”?’
First of all, it should be noted that Paul is not here discussing private prayer but, rather, the use of the gift of tongues at a congregational meeting. (See 1 Corinthians 14:23.) Moreover, Paul’s words are in complete harmony with both the purpose for which the gift of tongues was given and the description of the gift given in the book of Acts. If you read the entire 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians, you will notice that
(1) the tongues referred to were known languages, not unintelligible speech, and
(2) the gift was to be used, not privately, but for the benefit of unbelievers.Let us read verse 2 in its entirety. It states: “For he that speaks in a tongue speaks, not to men, but to God, for no one listens, but he speaks sacred secrets by the spirit.”
The Greek word translated “tongue,” glossa, is the same word as that used at Acts 2:4, 11, where it obviously has reference to known languages. The Greek word translated “listens” can denote hearing something without understanding what is stated. This can be better understood in the light of verses 13, 16 and 17 of 1 Corinthians, chapter 14, where we read:“Therefore let the one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may translate. Otherwise, if you offer praise with a gift of the spirit, how will the man occupying the seat of the ordinary person [or, unbeliever; see verses 22-25.] say ‘Amen’ to your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? True, you give thanks in a fine way, but the other man is not being built up.”
Simply put, the one speaking in a tongue speaks to God rather than to men if the men who are listening do not understand what he is saying. Paul had in mind not unintelligible speech but foreign languages that potentially could be understood by others. But if, in fact, none of those present could understand the language and if there were no interpreters present, then the one who spoke the tongue should pray that he might translate it and thus build up others, especially the unbelievers. If there was no one to translate, then, as the scripture says, it would be better for him to keep silent.—1 Cor. 14:28.
What about today? Would not gifts such as tongues be necessary to ‘indicate the presence of the holy spirit’ in a person?
A PART OF CHRISTIANITY TODAY?
The Scriptures show that the miraculous gifts given to first-century Christians were only temporary in nature.
“Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease.” (1 Cor. 13:8)Does the Bible give any indication as to when the gifts would cease? YES, it does.
Read for yourself the reported cases when the gift of tongues accompanied the outpouring of holy spirit: Acts 2:1-4, 14; 10:44-48; 19:6. You will notice that in every case one or more of the apostles of Jesus Christ were present.
According to Acts 8:18, “through the laying on of the hands of the apostles the spirit was given.”
Logically, then, with the death of the apostles, the transmitting of the gifts of the spirit, including the gift of tongues, ceased.The gift of tongues had served its purpose. It had been well established that the Christian congregation had God’s favor and backing. Moreover, Christians had grown in number and had been dispersed to many lands, carrying the “good news” with them.—Compare Colossians 1:23.
‘But if the gifts have ceased, then what accounts for modern-day manifestations?’ some may ask.
Could it be possible that the modern-day gift of tongues is not from God? Admittedly, accepting this may be difficult for those who claim to have the gift. Of the 5,000,000 adult Americans who claim to speak in tongues, 33 percent do not even believe that the Devil is a personal being and that he can influence others. Well, then, how can you know for sure from what source modern-day manifestations come?
david.
How different the apostle Paul is from the modern sects that claim to be able to speak in tongues. They are not at all interested in having their hearers understand what they babble but merely want them to be impressed by their unintelligible speech.
The gift of speaking in different tongues was given to the early Christians for a purpose, to spread the message to people of different tongues (languages) and to give proof that divine favor now rested with the Christians.Quote (david @ Sep. 29 2005,19:31) How different the apostle Paul is from the modern sects that claim to be able to speak in tongues. They are not at all interested in having their hearers understand what they babble but merely want them to be impressed by their unintelligible speech.
The gift of speaking in different tongues was given to the early Christians for a purpose, to spread the message to people of different tongues (languages) and to give proof that divine favor now rested with the Christians.
Yes david,
These ideas are certainly popular today among those whose minds are closed and who prefer not to see the power of God at work lest it challenges their comfortable ideas about religion. Men love to be in control and the Spirit challenges that thought.Somehow, I doubt it's the power of God that makes people babel sounds that aren't understandable by anyone.
THERE WAS A REASON THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES WAS GIVEN.
Did you read the post above the one you quoted and read all the scriptures and look at the simple line of reasoning and logic?
I know it's impossible (faith shattering) for someone who believes they actually have a gift from God to come to the understanding that they don't. So of course, I don't expect you to change your mind.
Nick, what does the Bible indicate was the reason for the gift of speaking in different languages? I would like scriptural quotations to back up the idea that babeling sounds that aren't words is what the scriptures are referring to.
did you read any of the post above?
Nick,
You said,
Quote Men love to be in control and the Spirit challenges that thought. Nick, Paul addressed this in ( 1 Cor.12-Chapter 14) and he said, “” And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets( 1 Cor.14:32), and also note ( 1 Cor.14:22).
Nick, I cannot have a discussion with you, as you will twist what I say to mean wrongfully about me, then accuse me wrongfully, so I will only quote scriptures to you, and see if you will twist them to mean wrong too.
Quote (david @ Sep. 30 2005,01:07) Somehow, I doubt it's the power of God that makes people babel sounds that aren't understandable by anyone. THERE WAS A REASON THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES WAS GIVEN.
Did you read the post above the one you quoted and read all the scriptures and look at the simple line of reasoning and logic?
I know it's impossible (faith shattering) for someone who believes they actually have a gift from God to come to the understanding that they don't. So of course, I don't expect you to change your mind.
Nick, what does the Bible indicate was the reason for the gift of speaking in different languages? I would like scriptural quotations to back up the idea that babeling sounds that aren't words is what the scriptures are referring to.
did you read any of the post above?
Hi david,
Did you read all the scriptures I posted? The answers are in there.
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