- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi WorshippingJesus,
You said,
Quote Tim Then I suppose you would not believe that God would offer up his son for a sacrifice for sin then.
God gave him over to be beaten in the face, pull his beard out, spit on, whipped him with a cat of ninie tails, a whip with 9 strands having metal shavings at the end of them. They whipped him 39 times with it, put a crown of thorns on his head.
Then they crucified him, putting huge nails in his wrist and feet, and he hung on the tree for 6 hours in excruciating pain that we cant begin to imagine.
Our God sent Yeshua to die that horrible death spilling his blood, and then accepts his sons own blood on a mercy seat in heaven.
Yeshua calls twelve men, teaches them about the kingdom and with the exclusion of John, sent them off to die as martyrs. History says Peter was crucified upside down.
Our God of Love let this happen.
you only partially understand what I am saying, I do not believe that importance lies in the fact that God offered up His Son for sacrifice.
I believe that what is important is that Jesus offered up Himself for that sacrifice.The last part of your statement is correct. “The God of love let this happen”, He did not command it.
Tim
Hi WorshippingJesus,
I am surprised that you can not see the difference between letting something happen and commanding it to happen.
God let satan torture Job. He did not command it.
But God was supposed to have commanded the Hebrews to slaughter every man woman and child in the cities that they conquered.
I fail to see how that is a God of love.Tim
Hi Nick,
Quote Posted: Dec. 22 2007,04:32 ——————————————————————————–
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2007,01:47)
Hi tow,
You said Quote
I do not attribute men's desire to kill and conquer to G-d. As stated so many times, if He has the power to create, He has the power to do things on His own, He would not need human pawns to carry out His dirty work. Therefore, the desire to conquer and slaughter is a human trait which some men claimed was driven by G-d. Hurrah for them.I agree with this totally. This puts me at odds with Christians that claim that the entire bible
was inspired by God and is His word spoken to us.
I think that the bible is a wonderful book that tells us some things about God. But it also contains a
lot of what was merely added by man. God expects us to be able to descern what is truly from
Him and what is added by comparing what is said to His character. If it doesn't fit a truly loving God,
then He did not command it, no matter what the bible says.Tim
Hi Tim4,
So some of the jots and tittles are not precious treasures after all? When will you offer your expurgated version ?How are the jots and tittles precious that teach us how to treat our slaves?
How about the jots and tittles that ban women on their period from the church?Are these precious treasures to you Nick?
Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2007,11:51) Hi Tim4,
Are you fit to judge the Scriptures?
I am fit to judge morality as I perceive it.
If it is not morally acceptable to me, or even acceptable by
the standards of decent humans, then it was not of God.
Whether Moses claimed it was or not.Sorry Nick, but I can't believe or accept that God is a
prejudicial, hypocritical homophobe merely because the bible
says that he is.I do however enjoy your responses, and am extremely happy that you have come back to this forum. You keep me searching myself as well as scriptures.
God bless you.
Tim
Quote Tim Then I suppose you would not believe that God would offer up his son for a sacrifice for sin then.
God gave him over to be beaten in the face, pull his beard out, spit on, whipped him with a cat of ninie tails, a whip with 9 strands having metal shavings at the end of them. They whipped him 39 times with it, put a crown of thorns on his head.
Then they crucified him, putting huge nails in his wrist and feet, and he hung on the tree for 6 hours in excruciating pain that we cant begin to imagine.
Our God sent Yeshua to die that horrible death spilling his blood, and then accepts his sons own blood on a mercy seat in heaven.
Yeshua calls twelve men, teaches them about the kingdom and with the exclusion of John, sent them off to die as martyrs. History says Peter was crucified upside down.
Our God of Love let this happen.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2007,10:45)
Hi WorshippingJesus,you only partially understand what I am saying, I do not believe that importance lies in the fact that God offered up His Son for sacrifice.
Hi Tim
I understand what you are saying however, the scriptures say that the Father sent Jesus and Gave his only begotten son.Quote
I believe that what is important is that Jesus offered up Himself for that sacrifice.Yes Jesus did agree to do the Fathers will.
The thing is Tim, I dont believe we have to oppologize for the Fathers actions.
God is infinitly higher than we are. Why should we as the clay question why he does such?
The Lord gives the Lord takes away. God cannot sin. He is above the laws that apply to us. If God kills someone he has not committed murder because he gave the life and can take it. He is all powerfull.
But you are right that Yeshua also had the power to lay down his life and to take it up agian.
Quote
The last part of your statement is correct. “The God of love let this happen”, He did not command it.
TimTim if God has all power in heaven and earth and he can stop the suffering of humanity and he does nothing, then God is responsible.
For instance God sees everything. Well there are little children in the world now that crimes are being committed against that we could not imagine, so sick that you and I would probably throw up if we were to witness it. Yet God who has the power to stop it, sees it all and stands by and lets it happen.
He is the creator and the possesor of all things, and makes no oppology for his actions, or the lack of action. We cannot now understand how this can be but we will see in the end that he is worthy and justified in all he did and did not do.
Therefore I believe we should not pick and choose what part of the Hebrew scriptures should be there or not based on our understanding of the nature of God. If we do then what do we have that is sure?
Our understanding should be based on what the scriptures say even though we do not understand. This is why people dont accept the Trinitarian theology, because they dont understand it, even though there are clear scriptures that say that it is true. Yes we do have the Holy Spirit, but if that was all we need then why did Yeshua and the Apostles make use and speak of the scriptures and teach from them?Blessings
Hi WJ,
You say
“Our understanding should be based on what the scriptures say even though we do not understand. This is why people dont accept the Trinitarian theology, because they dont understand it, even though there are clear scriptures that say that it is true. “So those who are ignorant do not see trinity taught in scripture.
Do any scriptures really teach there is a trinity ?
Does God need theologians?TimothyVI,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi WorshippingJesus,
I am surprised that you can not see the difference between letting something happen and commanding it to happen.
What is the difference Tim? If God has the power to stop some evil and he dosnt then he is responsible for it!Satan required all Job had and got permision fron God to take it all except the Lord said not his life.
Tim even our own laws say that if you or I was standing by and witnessing a young pretty girl being raped by three guys and we didnt do anything about it then we are an accessory, guilty.
Quote God let satan torture Job. He did not command it.
But God was supposed to have commanded the Hebrews to slaughter every man woman and child in the cities that they conquered.
I fail to see how that is a God of love.Tim
1 Sam 15:2
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.Saul disobeyed the command of the Lord above and kept the best of the sheep and the oxen and the lambs and didnt destroy all the people. Because of his rebellion the Lord toolk the kingdom from him and an evil spirit was to haunt him the rest of his days.
Yet out of that came a new King, David, who would be the liniage of Yeshua.
Would you take this story out of the bible? Again, we can not fully understand the Lord whos ways are as high above us as the heavens are above the earth.
Blessings
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 22 2007,12:20) Yet out of that came a new King, David, who would be the liniage of Yeshua.
Not according to your GT. Matthew and Luke said he was born of a virgin, thus not having the proper lineage. He was not of the seed of David through Solomon.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2007,04:11) Hi Tim4,
So Moses is not a man of God but you are?
Moses was a man of God that did not do what God said.
Why do you think that God made him wander the desert for forty years?I am a man of God, like Moses was, that does not do all that God has commanded. So I am wandering among the other confused Christians on Heaven Net.
Tim
Hi WJ,
You saidQuote The thing is Tim, I dont believe we have to oppologize for the Fathers actions. Nor do I. I don't believe that He even did the things that He is accused of. So no appology is necessary.
Tim
Tim,
You are a Christian with sensibility. You seem to be one that is after G-d's own heart. David was after G-d's own heart and he often questioned the practices of those who came before him as well.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 23 2007,05:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2007,04:11) Hi Tim4,
So Moses is not a man of God but you are?
Moses was a man of God that did not do what God said.
Why do you think that God made him wander the desert for forty years?I am a man of God, like Moses was, that does not do all that God has commanded. So I am wandering among the other confused Christians on Heaven Net.
Tim
Hi Tim4,
Moses was a man of God led by the Spirit and Christ is said in scripture to be like him.
His salvation is secure and he spoke with Jesus on the mountain.
Yet you can judge him?Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 23 2007,05:47) Hi WJ,
You saidQuote The thing is Tim, I dont believe we have to oppologize for the Fathers actions. Nor do I. I don't believe that He even did the things that He is accused of. So no appology is necessary.
Tim
TimYou are right we should not accuse God.
But simply believe what his word says about him.
Rom 9:10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived {twins} by one man, our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 for though {the twins} were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to {His} choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Rom 9:12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”
Rom 9:13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.”
Rom 9:16 So then it {does} not {depend} on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.”
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?”
Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?
Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Rom 9:22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
Rom 9:23 And {He did so} to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
Rom 9:24 {even} us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.Blessings
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 23 2007,05:48) Tim, You are a Christian with sensibility. You seem to be one that is after G-d's own heart. David was after G-d's own heart and he often questioned the practices of those who came before him as well.
David was a man of war and was probably guilty of killing more in his lifetime than any in the Tanakh.
And YHWH told him to do it. So I guess we need to throw David out now!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2007,07:04) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 23 2007,05:48) Tim, You are a Christian with sensibility. You seem to be one that is after G-d's own heart. David was after G-d's own heart and he often questioned the practices of those who came before him as well.
David was a man of war and was probably guilty of killing more in his lifetime than any in the Tanakh.
And YHWH told him to do it. So I guess we need to throw David out now!
David was a man of war and was probably guilty of killing more in his lifetime than any in the Tanakh.If David was guilty and Jehovah told him to do it then who by extension is also guilty?
Who told david to take a census? Satan or Jehovah?
It's a trivia question.
Lets see who gets it right.
Quote (Son of Light @ Dec. 23 2007,08:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 23 2007,07:04) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 23 2007,05:48) Tim, You are a Christian with sensibility. You seem to be one that is after G-d's own heart. David was after G-d's own heart and he often questioned the practices of those who came before him as well.
David was a man of war and was probably guilty of killing more in his lifetime than any in the Tanakh.
And YHWH told him to do it. So I guess we need to throw David out now!
David was a man of war and was probably guilty of killing more in his lifetime than any in the Tanakh.If David was guilty and Jehovah told him to do it then who by extension is also guilty?
Who told david to take a census? Satan or Jehovah?
It's a trivia question.
Lets see who gets it right.
Exactly.Guilt by association. But who are we to accuse God for his actions.
Shall the clay say to the potter, why do you do such and such?
David, though he killed many enemys at the command of YHWH was not guilty of murder or genicide because YHWH told him to.
If David was gulty of murder then YHWH would have punished him like he did for the murder of Urriah.
God is above his own law. The law is for us. He has no law. He cannot sin because there is no law against him.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 22 2007,14:04) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 23 2007,05:48) Tim, You are a Christian with sensibility. You seem to be one that is after G-d's own heart. David was after G-d's own heart and he often questioned the practices of those who came before him as well.
David was a man of war and was probably guilty of killing more in his lifetime than any in the Tanakh.
And YHWH told him to do it. So I guess we need to throw David out now!
No…we need to see David as a man under extreme pressure. One from G-d, one from his people, one from his own inner turmoil. David faced more than you ever will and yet he was still called a man after G-d's own heart. Do you have a similar claim to fame?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
