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Hi Tow,
So if the miracles of the prophets were not true then the writings about anything they did is useless. So if one jot or tittle is evil the whole book is spoiled. Should we use the OT at all?Only if you want to. Freedom of choice. Like I said, it was written by humans, just like you. Is everything you write the truth? Did you ever feel 'inspired' and then act on that inspiration only to find out later that what you did was not of G-d?
I'm sure those that killed Jews felt inspired of G-d to do so. Therein lies the fallacy.
Because I can look out the window and view His creation? Because I can look at my children and know there is a G-d? That's all the proof I need.
Sorry, but I just happen to believe that the Tanakh is the closest writings we have to the real G-d. Still, it fails in so many ways because it was written by humans. We tend to be a fallable lot.
Hi Tow,
So none of the sacred writings speak from the heart of God to you.
I hope you do find a suitable god.As usual, Nick is in top form by changing things up. Or do you have a comprehension problem? Perhaps the reason you have more posts than anyone else: it takes you 5x as many responses to comprehend?
While I feel like a broken record repeating things to you (which explains much of why Jesus had to repeat himself often, must be in his followers), I merely said I do not attribute men's desire to kill and conquer to G-d. As stated so many times, if He has the power to create, He has the power to do things on His own, He would not need human pawns to carry out His dirty work. Therefore, the desire to conquer and slaughter is a human trait which some men claimed was driven by G-d. Hurrah for them. Again this explains the Christians killing Jews. But right you don't accept that they were Christians because they made your religion look like blood-thirsty savages.
Thus, as said so many times before, the Tanakh was written by fallible men. Therefore, it reflects their weaknesses and emotional states as well as times of goodness and mercy. Yet underneath there is still much more truth about the G-d of all flesh.
Welcome to humanity.
Hi Tow,
Where is your god written about or are you making it up?
You trust no writings anyway so I guess you do have to make it up.Hi Tow,
Speaking of fruit your only contribution here is godlessness and scriptural destructiveness
so what spirit is that the fruit of?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,00:41) Hi Tow,
Where is your god written about or are you making it up?
You trust no writings anyway so I guess you do have to make it up.
As usual Nick continues on his own path with words others write.It is quite obvious you have a learning disability because I have already stated on many occasions my beliefs about the Tanakh yet you choose to comprehend these statements in your own way. No wonder you you think Jesus was the Jewish Messiah even though the Tanakh proves this to be false.
If this is the way your 'spirit' teaches you then perhaps you should seek a refund?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,01:58) Hi Tow,
Speaking of fruit your only contribution here is godlessness and scriptural destructiveness
so what spirit is that the fruit of?
I'm not concerned about fruit. Was that not a GT teaching? In any case, my purpose is clear: to inform about the fallacy of Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. I do this because I do not like to see people say they are worshiping YHVH when they are really worshiping a dead man named Jesus. If they leave YHVH out of it then that would be fine. I don't care to point out the fallaciousness of other religions that worship other gods totally foreign to YHVH because that is their business. But Christianity tries to wrap YHVH into a book of fiction called the GT and therein lies the problem.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 21 2007,23:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,01:58) Hi Tow,
Speaking of fruit your only contribution here is godlessness and scriptural destructiveness
so what spirit is that the fruit of?
I'm not concerned about fruit. Was that not a GT teaching? In any case, my purpose is clear: to inform about the fallacy of Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. I do this because I do not like to see people say they are worshiping YHVH when they are really worshiping a dead man named Jesus. If they leave YHVH out of it then that would be fine. I don't care to point out the fallaciousness of other religions that worship other gods totally foreign to YHVH because that is their business. But Christianity tries to wrap YHVH into a book of fiction called the GT and therein lies the problem.
I agree with Tow Jesus wasn't the Jewish Messiah whose purpose would be a “racist” agenda of destroying the evil goyim and crowning the Jews the kings of the earth.Rather Jesus served another God. The Most high God who Melchizedek served. Jesus came to show men how we are slaves to the principalities and powers, the evil angels who govern this earth, and how we can break free.
Hi tow,
You saidQuote I do not attribute men's desire to kill and conquer to G-d. As stated so many times, if He has the power to create, He has the power to do things on His own, He would not need human pawns to carry out His dirty work. Therefore, the desire to conquer and slaughter is a human trait which some men claimed was driven by G-d. Hurrah for them. I agree with this totally. This puts me at odds with Christians that claim that the entire bible
was inspired by God and is His word spoken to us.
I think that the bible is a wonderful book that tells us some things about God. But it also contains a
lot of what was merely added by man. God expects us to be able to descern what is truly from
Him and what is added by comparing what is said to His character. If it doesn't fit a truly loving God,
then He did not command it, no matter what the bible says.Tim
Tim,
To be brutally honest, much of the GT has a great message in it. So while I believe it is mostly fiction, I do so because I believe that pagans took a very Jewish Jesus and inserted all sorts of lies borrowed from other pagan mystery cults into his life to make him more appealing. It was an unbeatable package: the monotheistic G-d of the Jews combined with bits and pieces of paganism.
The Romans and Greeks were fascinated with the Jewish religion because they had only known pantheons of gods. To imagine that the Jews served only one G-d? Very interesting indeed. Couple this with many of the Judaic observances that were foreign to them and they were interested indeed. Plus I'll bet the Jews were very organized while the pagans had a haphazard way of serving their gods.
Paul was a smart and crafty man. He knew this. So he took a Jewish man who probably did develop a following of sorts, inserted myths into his life about a supposed resurrection from the dead, virgin birth, drinking of his blood to gain eternal life, etc. and he had the ultimate package for pagans.
That is why Pauline Christianity survived and Jewish Christianity died: the Jewish Christians were but a heresy of Judaism and they were still having people convert to Judaism to be a part. Paul took Jewish Christianity, removed the mitzvot of Judaism, said grace was all you needed, and walah! He was reeling in Gentiles hook, line, and sinker. Now Gentiles could worship the Jewsih G-d without the need to convert or follow any of those bothersome Jewish commands!
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2007,01:47) Hi tow,
You saidQuote I do not attribute men's desire to kill and conquer to G-d. As stated so many times, if He has the power to create, He has the power to do things on His own, He would not need human pawns to carry out His dirty work. Therefore, the desire to conquer and slaughter is a human trait which some men claimed was driven by G-d. Hurrah for them. I agree with this totally. This puts me at odds with Christians that claim that the entire bible
was inspired by God and is His word spoken to us.
I think that the bible is a wonderful book that tells us some things about God. But it also contains a
lot of what was merely added by man. God expects us to be able to descern what is truly from
Him and what is added by comparing what is said to His character. If it doesn't fit a truly loving God,
then He did not command it, no matter what the bible says.Tim
Hi Tim4,
So some of the jots and tittles are not precious treasures after all? When will you offer your expurgated version ?I suspect it will be rather short.
No we should rather believe it and not you IMHO.Hi Tow,
You have denied the miracles of the prophets thus stealing their claims to be servants of truth and losing your own credibility on any matters relating to their words. Your new gospel will find a few believers but will not stand the test of time.Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2007,01:47) Hi tow,
You saidQuote I do not attribute men's desire to kill and conquer to G-d. As stated so many times, if He has the power to create, He has the power to do things on His own, He would not need human pawns to carry out His dirty work. Therefore, the desire to conquer and slaughter is a human trait which some men claimed was driven by G-d. Hurrah for them. I agree with this totally. This puts me at odds with Christians that claim that the entire bible
was inspired by God and is His word spoken to us.
I think that the bible is a wonderful book that tells us some things about God. But it also contains a
lot of what was merely added by man. God expects us to be able to descern what is truly from
Him and what is added by comparing what is said to His character. If it doesn't fit a truly loving God,
then He did not command it, no matter what the bible says.Tim
TimThen I suppose you would not believe that God would offer up his son for a sacrifice for sin then.
God gave him over to be beaten in the face, pull his beard out, spit on, whipped him with a cat of ninie tails, a whip with 9 strands having metal shavings at the end of them. They whipped him 39 times with it, put a crown of thorns on his head.
Then they crucified him, putting huge nails in his wrist and feet, and he hung on the tree for 6 hours in excruciating pain that we cant begin to imagine.
Our God sent Yeshua to die that horrible death spilling his blood, and then accepts his sons own blood on a mercy seat in heaven.
Yeshua calls twelve men, teaches them about the kingdom and with the exclusion of John, sent them off to die as martyrs. History says Peter was crucified upside down.
Our God of Love let this happen.
In the garden of Eden Adam and Eve through one single act brought sin and death into the human race.
God could have forgiven him, but instead abandoned him to his own demise by cursing the ground that man came from bringing human suffering to all of mankind, and to this day our God stands back and lets the suffering continue.
Liitle childred starving to death and dying of thirst being molested and raped. Women being raped and beaten to death.
Torture that we cant even imagine acted out on humans this very moment, while YHWH of the Hebrew scriptures and the GT stands by and watchs.
It was the blood that God repuired for sin. Little wonder that the unbeliever sees our God as a blood thirsty evil dictator.
However, we know that God is a God of Love but also is a God of justice and judgment.
Job came to understand this even though God let satan take everything he had including his health to try him.
Job 9:10
Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
11 Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
12 Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?Job 27:8
For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?Job understood that God is the Owner and Possesor of all things.
He is the potter and we are the clay. If God chooses to punish man then he will without explanation.
He drowned the first world woman and children and all even the inocent animals.
He rained fire and brim stone and destroyed two citys inocent woman children and babys.
Rom 11:33
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!Isa 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.How high is the heavens? So is Gods thoughts compared to our finite, puny little minds.
Romans 11:34
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.God takes full responsibility for his actions. In the end all of creation will marvel at his wonders. Now the angels stand in amazement as they watch our God at work in all of his creation.
All power is his. He rules in the affairs of men. His ultimate will is being accomplished for he is the Potter and we are the clay.
Jer 18:6
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.Rom 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,Who are we to question this infinite God of his doings?
God cannot commit sin! Not because he is perfect. But because there is no law against him. He is the creator of the Law. He is above the law.
Shall we as clay say to the potter why do you do this or that?
Shall we question his ways?
1 Kings 14:10
Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.If we believe God is only a big teddy bear of Love, without chatisement and punishment of sin, then we have denied his wrath and judgment against all sin and unrighteousness.
To say that God does not bring wrath on mankind then you would have to take out a huge part of the scriptures and IMO deny part of his nature.
Yes everything God does is for his purposes and by and through his Love which in his time he will show who only is worthy of all praise and honour and glory forever and ever.
Rom 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2007,04:36) Hi Tow,
You have denied the miracles of the prophets thus stealing their claims to be servants of truth and losing your own credibility on any matters relating to their words. Your new gospel will find a few believers but will not stand the test of time.
NHAmen to that!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,11:32) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 22 2007,01:47) Hi tow,
You saidQuote I do not attribute men's desire to kill and conquer to G-d. As stated so many times, if He has the power to create, He has the power to do things on His own, He would not need human pawns to carry out His dirty work. Therefore, the desire to conquer and slaughter is a human trait which some men claimed was driven by G-d. Hurrah for them. I agree with this totally. This puts me at odds with Christians that claim that the entire bible
was inspired by God and is His word spoken to us.
I think that the bible is a wonderful book that tells us some things about God. But it also contains a
lot of what was merely added by man. God expects us to be able to descern what is truly from
Him and what is added by comparing what is said to His character. If it doesn't fit a truly loving God,
then He did not command it, no matter what the bible says.Tim
Hi Tim4,
So some of the jots and tittles are not precious treasures after all? When will you offer your expurgated version ?I suspect it will be rather short.
No we should rather believe it and not you IMHO.
Jesus saidMat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Alright Jesus! Let's see if you REALLY mean what you say.
Lev 17:12 Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
Here's one of those commands, Jesus, let's see how you treat the 'Law' (Torah) in respect to what you say in Mat 5:18.
Joh 6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Whoops, I guess Jesus forgot that nothing had passed from the 'Law' (Torah).
So based on your own assertion that all must be perfect, Nick, or all will be in doubt, I guess you might as well throw the rest of Jesus' words away since he broke YHVH's Torah even though he said none of the Torah would pass until heaven and earth passed away.
Please, supply the apologetics.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,11:36) Hi Tow,
You have denied the miracles of the prophets thus stealing their claims to be servants of truth and losing your own credibility on any matters relating to their words. Your new gospel will find a few believers but will not stand the test of time.
Uh, please supply a passage from Tanakh where a prophet says he is a servant of truth. They were G-d's servants but that does not mean that they would not embellish from time to time. don't you remember, Jesus was supposedly the only sinless person to walk the earth.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 22 2007,05:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,11:36) Hi Tow,
You have denied the miracles of the prophets thus stealing their claims to be servants of truth and losing your own credibility on any matters relating to their words. Your new gospel will find a few believers but will not stand the test of time.
Uh, please supply a passage from Tanakh where a prophet says he is a servant of truth. They were G-d's servants but that does not mean that they would not embellish from time to time. don't you remember, Jesus was supposedly the only sinless person to walk the earth.
Is the New testament a New covenant?2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The God of the Old Testament is NO more! Not that God has changed BUT now God is dealing withe those who have been forgiven! Not those who are full of SIN!
Pentecost is the fulfillment of the Spirit of God coming to earth and pouring “HIMself” upon all flesh that will accept His Lamb!
There will always be TARES! Don't be chocked! OK?
God bless,
Ken
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