- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Kerwin
Look at it this way.
We know there are 2 resurrections.The first one at the coming,
and the next one after the 1000 years.All get the same reward,
but some receive it first, and some last.Matthew 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
It doesn’t matter who comes in at the last hour before Christ returns, because all will be in that first resurrection and together they will meet the Lord in the air.
So Christ is not speaking about that for together they will be raised at the coming.
So it can only mean one thing.
The first ones that were called (Israel)
will be raised last (after the thousand years, final judgement)The last ones that were called (gentiles)
will be raised first (at the coming, 1000 yrs before final judgement)Israel provoked God to jealousy, so he will provoke them to jealousy,
and this jealousy will come when they see the gentiles in the kingdom, (raised at the resurrection, now spirit)
and they are still flesh.Make sense?
Wakeup and Journey,
The first one at the coming,
and the next one after the 1000 years.Jesus spoke of two resurrections, the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:29Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Except for the mention in Revelations that I believe I know of no other mention of two resurrections in Scripture. Because of the similarity of the two I was lead to think were the speaking of the same two resurrections but if the righteous die during the thousand years then clearly they are not.
Jews and Christians are not mentioned as separate religions in Scripture though it seems that they each accused the other of being heretics. The AV of the KJV uses sect or heresy though today we would say denomination.
There are several passages about the first being last and the last being first and I only looked as one and that one did not mention resurrection directly nor did is mention either Jews or Christians. At that time Jesus was speaking to the sheep of Israel, which are of the group we call Jews.
First and last are used in Scripture to mean many different things including the first works and the last works of a king. When God is called the first and the last in the OT he means he is the only one. The objection of the earlier workers is they felt it was unfair that they received equal rewards for their longer period of labor to those who labored but a little. Equal sound like the same type of use of the words first and last as when God uses the terms to mean he is the only one.
Except for trying to understand how terms are used in relationship to one another in Scripture I did not go outside of the parable being addressed.
The only place the Jews are mentioned first is in relation to Gentiles. In those associations the Jew received the gospel, are rewarded, and are punished first and the Gentiles come afterwards in all three, Romans 1:16 and Romans 2: 9,10.
Journey,
I acknowledge that words differ from wakeup’s as you have the relationship of Jews to Gentiles instead of the relationship of Jews to Christians he used. I was addressing his wording and not yours in the above post. Look at Romans 1:16 and Romans 2: 9,10 which clearly seem to reveal that the Jews will be rewarded first. Please note if anyone needs to be brought up to speed it would be those who looked forward to the Christ and not those that have him.
Kerwin.
First of all you should understand, that Jesus parable was to His followers.
It is a very simple parable, and yet not understood by some, or maybe the many.
This makes me to shudder. It is unbelievable.
The vail of Moeses has not been removed; this is what I see.wakeup
Except for the mention in Revelations that I believe I know of no other mention of two resurrections in Scripture.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Kerwin.
The White Throne judgement consists of both, the souls who will thrown into the lake of fire, and the souls who will be saved because The book of life is there also.Do you understand the purpose of the Millennium?
Are you aware that future generations will get a chance to know Christ when knowledge covers the earth during that time?
The ones that do come to him, will take part in that 2nd resurrection.Look at Romans 1:16 and Romans 2: 9,10 which clearly seem to reveal that the Jews will be rewarded first.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Kerwin
“To everyone that believeth” The Jews were preached the gospel of Christ First, they were shown the power of salvation First, then the rest of the world were shown.
Besides the few Jews who were chosen, the majority of Israel rejected their Messiah until this day.
They put a curse on themselves for murdering their Messiah. To this day they do not accept him, therefore they do not accept his teachings.The Jews “who believed” will be in the First resurrection with the christian gentiles. There is no difference in that resurrection whether Jew or Gentile.
Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Kerwin
The same judgement for all. Those who do not follow Christ, whether Jew or Gentile will not be in that 1st resurrection. Simple.
But after that 1st resurrection when the kingdom is set up, the Jews will be given mercy. This is God’s promise to Abraham and his plan to finish what he started with Israel for his names glory. Only the Jews according to election will be selected. Not every single Jew that lived. Do you understand?
Out of all the Jews who ever lived, amongst them many will be chosen from all generations, and together they will make up the house of Israel. It will be a new Israel, with their eyes opened and given light. Not the same as the old Israel.
God will not chose wicked Israelites to be a part of that kingdom.Hi J42,
Those who believed have passed from death to life prophetically.
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
But the lake of fire is only for the dross of humanity who are not found to be sheep at the final judgement
Thus it is the second death
Journey,
Do you understand the purpose of the Millennium?
Are you aware that future generations will get a chance to know Christ when knowledge covers the earth during that time?
The ones that do come to him, will take part in that 2nd resurrection.No, but if it fulfills the Psalms I read just recently it will be a time when the Jews rule the Gentiles, Heathen according to the AV of the KJV.
Journey,
The Jews “who believed” will be in the First resurrection with the christian gentiles. There is no difference in that resurrection whether Jew or Gentile.
Unbelievers are unbelievers and I doubt they will change just because the literally see Jesus.
The ignorant that have it in them to be believers are a different thing but I believe they come from all nations including the Jews. I see a possible need for them to have Christ as those that have received the Spirit have learned to mature in Christ. If it is possible that there are those that have received the Spirit but perished before becoming fully mature then they too would benefit from a life of being made perfect if God knows that is needful.
The 144,000 that are saved from the earth are called Jews and they come first in Scripture the multitude that worship before the throne are said to come from the nations and they come second. I do not know where or if it fits in but since it fits the formula of Jews first I felt I should mention it.
k
Ro 4:13 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
Ro 4:14 For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
Ro 4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Ro 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
Ro 4:17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
Ro 4:18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”Do you understand the purpose of the Millennium?
Are you aware that future generations will get a chance to know Christ when knowledge covers the earth during that time?
The ones that do come to him, will take part in that 2nd resurrection.Journey,
No, but if it fulfills the Psalms I read just recently it will be a time when the Jews rule the Gentiles, Heathen according to the AV of the KJV.Kerwin
Do you mean no, you are not aware of two resurrections, but….according to what you read in psalms, you see something? Is that what you are trying to say? What verse would that be, lets take a look at it?
The Jews “who believed” will be in the First resurrection with the christian gentiles. There is no difference in that resurrection whether Jew or Gentile.
Unbelievers are unbelievers and I doubt they will change just because the literally see Jesus.
Kerwin
What does this mean? unbelievers and unbelievers?
You doubt the Jews will change just because they literally see Jesus?
Why? wouldn’t you? When they see him coming in all his glory with power, you think that will have no effect on them?The ignorant that have it in them to be believers are a different thing but I believe they come from all nations including the Jews. I see a possible need for them to have Christ as those that have received the Spirit have learned to mature in Christ.
The Jews are not coming to Christ because they have matured in the spirit, they are far from it.
but will come to Christ because he will take that veil off their eyes, and they will see him.
Because of “Mercy” at the appearing of the Lord, they will be forced to see who they have rejected. I am speaking of the “remnant” of the last days.
They are not the only ones. There are many from generations before them also, of Israel.If it is possible that there are those that have received the Spirit but perished before becoming fully mature then they too would benefit from a life of being made perfect if God knows that is needful.
Can you be more specific please? Who are those you are speaking of perishing before coming fully mature? the gentile christians?
If they are not fully mature, then they have to go through tribulation to have their robes washed white.
Do you know what this means? This means they will be tested when the mark of the beast comes. They can take it to save their lives,…but lose their souls, or they can refuse it to lose their lives (death) and save their souls….
The big test is coming for us of the last generation.The 144,000 that are saved from the earth are called Jews and they come first in Scripture the multitude that worship before the throne are said to come from the nations and they come second. I do not know where or if it fits in but since it fits the formula of Jews first I felt I should mention it.
It says the 144,000 are numbered out of the 12 tribes of Israel.
There are no tribes today.
We christians who believe are automatically “adopted into Israel”. We are the wild olive branches grafted on to that tree.
The same God who promised Israel an “inheritance” has promised that same inheritance to us also.
The inheritance is divided between the 12 tribes. If we are included in that inheritance, then we are numbered with them also.Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Israel rejected Christ, therefore their inheritance goes to the gentiles who received Christ.
It’s as simple as that. We are counted for their seed.Ezekiel 47:23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.
Journey,
Kerwin
Do you mean no, you are not aware of two resurrections, but….according to what you read in psalms, you see something? Is that what you are trying to say? What verse would that be, lets take a look at it?
I meant no, I do not understand the purpose of the Age of Christ.
Now that I think of it I do know more than I was thinking as it is only after that Age that has placed all things under the feet of the Arch High King Jesus. Death will be last and we all know that Death and hell, the land of the dead, will be tossed into hell, the lake of fire; Revelations 20:14.
So the overall purpose is to put those things under his feet that have not yet been put under his feet as of the beginning of the Millennium.
When I spoke of the Heathen, aka Gentiles, being ruled by the Jews it is spoken of in Psalms 2 but Psalms 47 was the one I read.
Journey,
What does this mean? unbelievers and unbelievers?
You doubt the Jews will change just because they literally see Jesus?
Why? wouldn’t you? When they see him coming in all his glory with power, you think that will have no effect on them?I misspoke as I meant unbelievers are unbelievers. If you hear thee true gospel and you understand it but fail to respond then there is nothing in your that responds to it. You are infertile soil. There are other types of soil the seed falls on but only one that the seed takes rood and grows to maturity. If you are not that soil then no you will not believe even if you see Jesus coming in the clouds for your soul is like that of the demons and loves darkness. Such men, be they Jew or Gentile, will not come into the light.
The truly ignorant who hunger and thirst for righteousness, whether they be Jew or Gentile, will believe when they hear and understand the gospel whether Jesus is their or not. Such people do not need physical proof unless Satan has cursed them with limited understanding as the gospel is the food and drink their inner self desires.
So, yes unbelievers will like believers come to believe that there is a God and that Jesus is the Christ but like demons they will not want the gift that they obtain from God through faith in Jesus Christ. James speaks of such as do others.
Journey,
If it is possible that there are those that have received the Spirit but perished before becoming fully mature then they too would benefit from a life of being made perfect if God knows that is needful.
My ignorance, as in involuntary lack of knowledge, leads me not to know whether or not it is possible for a person that persists in believing that promise of righteousness to die the first death before they actually receive the fullness of that promise and so become like Christ in true righteousness and holiness. If it is possible for them to die before becoming fully mature then I do know God will credit them with becoming like Christ in true righteousness and holiness.
These individuals will either be dead by the Age of the Beast or will die during it. I believe some will become captives during the Age though that is only so they will be purified and so become fully mature.
Since it written that God will put all things under Jesus feet then it seems that it is plausible that God has not put all the sins of such unfortunate individual under Jesus feet as yet and they will be resurrected for that to be done. I am not sure but I believe The Thousand Years come after the age of Tribulations.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
