The Father of Lies

Participant

Hi SOL,
So we should believe you and your tangential views and not the bible?

December 21, 2007 at 6:04 pm#75747

kenrch

Participant

Quote (Son of Light @ Dec. 22 2007,01:10)

Colossians 2

8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in( promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

The verses above demonstrate these points:

That two sources exist for the Law. Human tradition and Element Spirits (angelic prinicipalities)

The Jewish Law specifically is being spoken of concerning New Moons and Sabbaths.

Those who follow these things are engaging in the worship of Angels.

The Angels are the ones who gave the Law at Sinai.

The angels are the Jehovah elohim or the Yahweh gods.

Matthew 10

16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Are these and the other Ten commandment laws of God are wrong?

What is wrong that we should not kill or steal est.

The God of the OT does seem to contradict the God of the NT. But the God of the OT was dealing with SIN. After the lamb of God had paid the price, sin is forgiven.

Jesus came and taught a spiritual Law and not the letter of the Law BUT still the basic Law that was given. A deeper law, a more strict law, was given than in the Old Testament.

We walk according to the Spirit and NOT the letter of the law!

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Were the OT people led by the Spirit of God when the Spirit did not come until Pentecost?

The people that God told to slaughter, were they “good” people?
Are were they people of Satan that were to spread evil…breaking God's Ten commandments?!

Things are not always and in the case of God never as they seem! His ways are NOT our ways! He knows the end from the beginning! If He tells you to do something it may not seem to make sense BUT HE knows the end from the beginning and all things work together for the good of God's people. Amen!

In this end time all sorts of things will come forth to deceive those who will be deceived according to scripture. I do NOT believe that “son of light OR MS” are whoever is absolutely wrong in everything he has said. But that is Satan's way to mix truth with lies.

Is Satan of God? I believe he is! He is the test that we must endure and only those who endure to the end will inherit eternal Life.

The cream of the crop! The cream of the crop is the elect! The saints. But most are the people of those saints:

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The meek shall inherit the earth. Flesh! If those days were not shortened then NO flesh would be saved! If everyone are to be spirit then why would flesh have to be saved?

Well that's enough; I've rattled on too much I'm sure!

God bless,

Ken

December 22, 2007 at 7:34 am#75816

Participant

SOL, am I right in believing you do not believe the Bible represents the truth?

Because the Bible does say that Jehovah is the Most High and thousands of times, we are specifically told that he is God. Literally, a thousand times. This is what the Bible plainly teaches.

If you do not believe it, then you believe the Bible is wrong.

Hence, I ask that you stop quoting from something you believe is false. It doesn't make sense for you to do this anyway. You only misrepresent the basic truth of the bible and you attempt to use the Bible to do this, when your message must be that the Bible is wrong.

Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind.

So, then, evil [as used in the Bible] is not always synonymous with wrongdoing.
Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the Flood of Noah’s day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt.
But these evils were not wrongs.
Rather, the rightful administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases.

December 22, 2007 at 7:45 am#75817

Participant

Quote

At this point we must ask
ourselves, can both good and evil spring forth from
the same God, a God who is Love personified?

Unfortunately, “evil” has become synonymous with Satan and wickedness.

Human dictionary:
adj 1: morally bad or wrong; “evil purposes”; “an evil influence”;
“evil deeds” [syn: wicked] [ant: good]
2: having the nature of vice [syn: depraved, vicious]
3: tending to cause great harm [syn: harmful, injurious]
4: having or exerting a malignant influence; “malevolent
stars”; “a malefic force” [syn: malefic, malevolent, malign]
n 1: morally objectionable behavior [syn: immorality, wickedness,
iniquity]
2: that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune: “the
evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft
interred with their bones”- Shakespeare
3: the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice:
“attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world”
[syn: evilness] [ant: good, good]

It's true, we usually think of “morally bad.” But that is not the only definition and it is not the biblical definition of “evil.”
Adj #3 or Noun #2 describe pretty well what Jehovah has done to some. It is an evil to them. I believe you have made the mistake of confusing Jehovah's use of righteous divine judgement (which “causes great harm” [[evil]] to those it is against) with the more common use of that word: “morally wrong.”

It is a mistake to do so. Everything in the Bible indicates that the judge of all the earth has the right to cast judgment against the wicked. This is in the long term “good” for his servants. Yet, you would call it “bad.”

Remember that scripture, about calling good bad and bad good? I believe you are grossly and blasphemously in violation of this to the utmost degree!

david

December 22, 2007 at 1:25 pm#75822

Participant

Fact: 1 John 5:7 was added to scripture

It is a forgery.

Jesus came to set us free from other forgeries of a Jewish kind.

That the Jews are worshipping a principality who has burdoned Israel. Beware the leaven of the Pharisees who are sons of the devil. The scribes pen.

God doesn't want or need us to sacrafice animals he wants us to be Good. Jesus didn't die on the cross as a human sacrifice to appease his blood thirsty Father he was killed by these principalities. But, he overcame them and set the captive spirits free who were detained in prison (hades).

Our New testament contains writings from multiple forms of early Christianity. Pauline / gnostic, Ebionite and proto orthodox forgeries. They are placed together in one volume. The Old testament was considered corrupted by the Essene Jews. Jesus was from their “kind” of Judaism, Nazarene Essene.

December 22, 2007 at 1:29 pm#75823

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2007,04:29)

Hi SOL,
So we should believe you and your tangential views and not the bible?

No believe Jesus.

Moses “saw” God. Don't try to get around this.

I repeat, scripture clearly says Moses saw God.

Jesus says “nobody” has ever seen the Father.

Let that sink in.

December 22, 2007 at 4:24 pm#75832

Participant

Quote

Fact: 1 John 5:7 was added to scripture

It is a forgery.

Yes, 1 John 5:7 was.

True.

And the answer to my question?

***

Also, the word from which the word “jealous” is translated….it is also often translated “zeal.”

But literally, “jealous.” Over and over, we are told things like Jehovah was jealous for the sons of Israel, etc. Most Bibl'es put the word “zeal” in that spot. Or Jehovah is jealous for zion. This is not the jealousy that you think of, but it is actually a zeal, despite being the word “jealous.”

SOL, you have not addressed anything I've said. This makes me wonder why.

December 22, 2007 at 5:34 pm#75841

Participant

Quote (Son of Light @ Dec. 23 2007,00:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2007,04:29)

Hi SOL,
So we should believe you and your tangential views and not the bible?

No believe Jesus.

Moses “saw” God. Don't try to get around this.

I repeat, scripture clearly says Moses saw God.

Jesus says “nobody” has ever seen the Father.

Let that sink in.

Hi SOL,
God, who is spirit is invisible, according to scripture, and thus cannot thus be seen by our eyes.
1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen

Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Hebrews 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible

However God has manifested Himself many times and many ways to men.

December 23, 2007 at 1:33 am#75916

Participant

Quote (david @ Dec. 22 2007,18:34)

SOL, am I right in believing you do not believe the Bible represents the truth?

Because the Bible does say that Jehovah is the Most High and thousands of times, we are specifically told that he is God. Literally, a thousand times. This is what the Bible plainly teaches.

If you do not believe it, then you believe the Bible is wrong.

The bible both old and new have interpolations, additions and subtractions. I do believe the bible holds truth but as a collective it is not true.

Example James and Paul disagree on works and faith. I am familiar with the arguements that demonstrate that they actually agree but have a different way of expressing the same thought. I personally think that it takes quite a bit of bending and twisting to “create” harmony between the two.

I believe Paul went off on his own and changed aspects of the Nazarene Way and combined it with roman mystery religions. Then later Pauline adherants forged later works like the pastoral epistles, hebrews and potentially ephesians, 2 thesalonians, and colossians.

In the same way we have much evidence both archeological uguritic (canaanite) writings that suggest YHWH was a son of the Most High God. We also have the Dueteronomy 32:8 passage as found in very early proto-masoretic, septuagint, sumaritan pentatuech and the Dead Sea Scrolls that state the same.

Scribes Changed Jehovah to “be” the Most High God. Jesus came to set the record straight. (see my signature)

December 23, 2007 at 1:52 am#75918

Participant

Hi SOL,
So if it is not truth are You?
The one who is truth said
“My word is truth”
I believe him.

December 23, 2007 at 3:36 am#75925

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2007,12:52)

Hi SOL,
So if it is not truth are You?
The one who is truth said
“My word is truth”
I believe him.

So do I.

The difference is you make Paul's words the same as Jesus's words. Including some works most likely not written by Paul but are later psuedopocrypha written in his name. Paul's doctrine is actually different than the doctrine spoken by Christ in the gospels. Jesus is pretty clear works matter. (Matthew 25)

You make the bible the word of God rather than Jesus.

You believe that the Catholics assemblied a perfect inerrent canon and reject the any evidence of Nazarene Ebionite or Gnostic scriptures that predate the Catholic canon.

December 23, 2007 at 4:37 am#75926

Participant

Hi SOL,
Sacred scripture is sacred scripture.
Paul did the same works of power as Jesus and spoke with the same wisdom.
He was a member of Christ's body and Christ was continuing the works of God to the frustration of Satan.

December 23, 2007 at 2:03 pm#75941

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2007,15:37)

What books are sacred? Which Canon?

Western Protestant, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Egyptian Coptic, Slavic, Ethiopic, Alexandrian?

What criteria do you use to determine the “true” sacred canon?

December 23, 2007 at 5:30 pm#75947

Participant

Hi SOL,
.I will bring up a thread.

December 24, 2007 at 9:20 pm#76033

Participant

Quote

I personally think it takes no bending in the slightest.

If you have true faith, you WILL have works. It's inevitable. But of course, it's not the works, but the faith that is the reason for the works that is so important.

“Faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.” (James 2:17)
Faith without works might not even really be faith.

Again, many would think or believe they had real faith, but wouldn't:
MATTHEW 7:21
““Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.”

Eph. 2:8, 9, RS: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast.”

(The entire provision for salvation is an expression of God’s undeserved kindness or grace. There is no way that a descendant of Adam can gain salvation on his own, no matter how noble his works are. Salvation is a gift from God given to those who put faith in the sin-atoning value of the sacrifice of his Son.)

Heb. 5:9, RS: “He [Jesus] became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.” (Italics added.) (Does this conflict with the statement that Christians are “saved through faith”? Not at all. Obedience simply demonstrates that their faith is genuine.)

Jas. 2:14, 26, RS: “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.” (A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith will have works to go with it—works of obedience to the commands of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and love. Without such works, his faith is dead.)

Acts 16:30, 31, RS: “‘Men, what must I do to be saved?’ And they [Paul and Silas] said, ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.’” (If that man and his household truly believed, would they not act in harmony with their belief? Certainly.)

December 24, 2007 at 9:35 pm#76034

942767

Participant

Quote (david @ Dec. 25 2007,08:20)

Quote

I personally think it takes no bending in the slightest.

If you have true faith, you WILL have works. It's inevitable. But of course, it's not the works, but the faith that is the reason for the works that is so important.

“Faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.” (James 2:17)
Faith without works might not even really be faith.

Eph. 2:8, 9, RS: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast.”

Amen. Even as born again Christians striving to obey the Word of God we make mistakes. Neither the Jew who was striving to obey God under the Law given to them through Moses nor we who are born again Christians have earned our salvation through perfect obedience to God's Eternal Law.

December 24, 2007 at 10:22 pm#76039

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Son of Light @ Dec. 23 2007,00:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2007,04:29)

Hi SOL,
So we should believe you and your tangential views and not the bible?

No believe Jesus.

Moses “saw” God. Don't try to get around this.

I repeat, scripture clearly says Moses saw God.

Jesus says “nobody” has ever seen the Father.

Let that sink in.

SOL

Then you should believe the words of Yeshua also…

KJV
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
King James Version 1611, 1769

NKJV – Jhn 6:46 – “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

NLT – Jhn 6:46 – (Not that anyone has ever seen the Father; only I, who was sent from God, have seen him.)
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

NIV – Jhn 6:46 – No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society

ESV – Jhn 6:46 – “not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles

NASB – Jhn 6:46 – “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

RSV – Jhn 6:46 – Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.

ASV – Jhn 6:46 – Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, he hath seen the Father.
American Standard Version 1901 Info

Young – Jhn 6:46 – not that any one hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath seen the Father.
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

Darby – Jhn 6:46 – not that any one has seen the Father, except he who is of God, he has seen the Father.
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

Webster – Jhn 6:46 – Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he who is from God, he hath seen the Father.
Noah Webster Version 1833 Info

HNV – Jhn 6:46 – Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father.

Let that sink in!!!

December 25, 2007 at 12:27 am#76049