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- January 7, 2009 at 9:45 pm#116876NickHassanParticipant
Hi Samual,
Jesus will return as saviour for the Jews and they will see him and mourn for him
Zech 12
8In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Rev19
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.Revelation 16:15-17
15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
January 8, 2009 at 9:53 am#116913samualParticipantNick… Greetings!
It appears that you are missing the Scriptural message that I have been pointing you to. The Natural Jews lost out when God ended their covenant because of their constant disobedience to their agreement in 70CE. That position was then given to another People; see what Jesus said:
Matthew 21:43 (New American Standard Bible)
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.”John 4:22-24 (New American Standard Bible)
“You worship what you do not know; we (Israel) worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”True to God’s promise to Abraham, there will always be an Israel; however, after 70CE the Nation has been made up of Both Natural Israel and Gentile, those that truly worship God in “spirit and truth.”
The Scriptures you quoted to support your belief that Israel of today will be spared from the battle of Armageddon does not comply with natural Israel, but to Spiritual Israel. As the Apostle Paul stated:
Romans 2:27-29 (New American Standard Bible)
“And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.”Galatians 3:28 (New American Standard Bible)
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”God bless!
January 8, 2009 at 5:32 pm#116923NickHassanParticipantHi Samual,
We are grafted into Israel and not vice versa. True Israel is saved and we can be one with them. It is still a time of opportunity for gentiles to share the blessings promised to Abraham till the number is fulfilled. The brash wasteful younger son has unearned forgiveness offered but the inheritance belongs to the older son.January 8, 2009 at 6:01 pm#116924NickHassanParticipantHi Samual,
Matthew 21:43 (New American Standard Bible)
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.”Access to Salvation by obedience to Law was closed when Jesus fulfilled the Law perfectly and then the standard was raised to perfection for them-impossible without the Spirit. A new priest was appointed, Jesus, replacing the access they had previously to forgiveness from God by their old priesthood. So from the time of Jesus they must walk with us to be true Israel and not what scripture refers to as the synagogue of satan.
But there will be the resurrection of Ez 37 and the blessing of Jl2.
January 8, 2009 at 7:39 pm#116927NickHassanParticipantHi Samual,
He shall return on the clouds in power to rescue the beseiged chosen people.
Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.January 8, 2009 at 7:49 pm#116928NickHassanParticipantHi samual,
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
This is when the warning about those in Judea being advised to flee is fulfilled.
The day is known only to God.January 8, 2009 at 8:26 pm#116930NickHassanParticipantHi,
Matthew 24:16
then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.Mark 13:14
“But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.Luke 21:21
“Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;Note the link to the abomination of desolation too.
January 9, 2009 at 12:50 am#116961TiffanyParticipantNick
Did you know that “mountain” means kingdom or nation? Fleeing into the mountains of Judea would not provide safety from the Romans, remember “Masada”?
And what link is there to the abomination of desolation?Georg
January 9, 2009 at 12:53 am#116963NickHassanParticipantHi Georg,
You are right-it may.But it may also mean mountain.
January 9, 2009 at 12:56 am#116965TiffanyParticipantNick , you still left my question unanswered.
Georg
January 9, 2009 at 1:14 am#116968NickHassanParticipantHi Georg,
Jesus links it to the time of fleeing from Judea.
God can protect those who obey Him.January 9, 2009 at 1:37 am#116977TiffanyParticipantNick
What does that tell me?
Georg
January 9, 2009 at 1:52 am#116979NickHassanParticipantHi Georg,
I do not know.
But this may help.Rev12
5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
January 9, 2009 at 2:28 am#116982TiffanyParticipantNick
Hear is were explaining scripture is important.
Rev. 12:5 refers to the woman/nation Israel which brought forth the man child, Jesus. Who, after his death and resurrection ascended to heaven.
Verse 6 speaks of another woman, the bride of Christ, the saints. The wilderness is this world, Satan's domain. The 1260 days are to be counted in years, they are the length of Antichrist rule.Georg
January 9, 2009 at 2:32 am#116983NickHassanParticipantHi Georg,
I agree with v 5But I think the woman in v 6 is the same woman, Israel.
January 9, 2009 at 2:55 am#116986TiffanyParticipantNick
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
That is the woman/nation Israel.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
That is the other woman/bride of Christ, notice the time of hear persecution.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
The flood is the false doctrine of Antichrist, with it he tried to destroy the bride/saints.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
The earth, meaning people, helped the woman/bride/saints. In 1517 Martin Luther started the great Reformation, that took the pressure of the saints since now the Antichrist had other enemies of the Catholic church.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This again is the first woman/nation Israel. After Satan was cast out of heaven, he went and persecuted the Jews all over the world, the remnant of her, the nation Israel, seed.
Georg
January 9, 2009 at 3:03 am#116988NickHassanParticipantHi Georg,
Thank you for your opinions.
Some may perhaps agree with them.January 9, 2009 at 3:20 am#116990TiffanyParticipantNick
You do see this is speaking of two different woman, do you not?
Georg
January 9, 2009 at 3:24 am#116992NickHassanParticipantHi georg,
No.January 9, 2009 at 10:46 am#117006TiffanyParticipantNick
Rev. 12 is speaking of the two brides of Christ. Physical Israel, the nation, of the OT; spiritual Israel, the saints, of the NT.
Georg
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