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The False Prophet; who and why
This letter is written to all Christians interested in Bible prophecy.
Originally, it was never meant to see the light of day. It was developed from a disagreement on Bible prophecy. I was resolved not to send it as I thought it was redundant. It seemed to be a repeat of the issues or a natural conclusion to the facts as stated in my previous letters. Finally, I decided that what I took for granted must be said. Most were either not convinced, or did not understand. Also, this subject matter lends support to my other writings on the end times…
I never know how to start these narratives. I do not comment on many topics, though I may have an opinion. I treat my words as Gold. I keep all my comments strictly on the end times and frequently asked questions. The main subject is always Satan and how he continues to twist the truth to his benefit…
Where prophecy is concerned, it always takes time for events to unfold and become easier to see. This was the case with my posts on prophecy . I never envisioned the six month truce happening between Israel and Hamas, brokered by Egypt. Therefore, events as I see them in my mind, are set back 6 months. A lot has happened though in those six months. The economy is a wreck, the stock market has dropped by nearly half, and oil has dropped to around 30 dollars. The only bright spot is cheaper gas prices, which also means that terrorists get less of our petrol dollars. It's really too bad that our economy is so reliant on oil from countries in the Middle East. These same people want to cut our throats. If we were dealing with any other group of people there would be very little problem, but Islam wants to dominate. It wants everyone in submission to it. Christianity and Islam are incompatible, neither one can accept the other. It has always been this way and will never change. When Islam feels threatened, it finds new and improved ways to subvert the masses. Ask yourself this. Why won't Saudi Arabia allow Christians? In the U.S. we call that discrimination, lacking tolerance or being politically incorrect. When they can't have what they want they use our own laws against us. If all else fails and sometimes not, they use the Jihad excuse. I have heard it said many times. This is just our natural response…
Back to the topic. I was going to keep this part to myself. I really saw no need to post it, but maybe I was wrong. You be the judge. This letter shall be in every place that has received previous posts by me. Therefore, all one has to do to get further explanation is to search out my screen name and all posts by me. This letter is a response to a question from a skeptic. Here we go…
First of all, I did not set any dates. Furthermore, I have never named the false prophet. I have never named him because I saw no reason to name him. I figured by naming the beast (Mahmoud Abbas) everyone could see who the false prophet was. Since according to you I have committed slander, let's take that one step further. I haven't named the false prophet until this very post. I will not keep silent anymore. Here he is.
The false prophet is Ismail Haniyeh.Most of you probably don't know who he is, so indulge me for a second. Ismail Haniyeh is the leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip. He shared power with Abbas for a short time during 2006 in the Unity Government.
When Hamas chose not to honor the image of the beast, the international community cut off support to Abbas and the Palestinians. The image of the beast is three items; honoring all prior Palestinian agreements, recognizing Israel's right to exist and a renunciation of terror. Hamas enters the picture in Revelation 13:11. They are one horn of the beast, just as Abbas is also a horn. A horn is a king. Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast Abbas and caused them to worship the first beast (Abbas).
How did Haniyeh cause them to worship the first beast?
Because Hamas would not honor or abide by any prior Palestinian agreements and continued to sponsor terrorism, he caused the whole world to honor the image of the beast (which was Abbas and his government without Hamas). By not honoring or worshipping the image, Hamas caused the whole world to reject Hamas. This is just exactly the opposite of what Christians are taught. Most believe the false prophet is supposed to lead worship of some manlike image. This is absolutely wrong. The image is the Palestinian Government prior to the arrival of Hamas as a part in it. Hamas caused the world to honor the image. An Image defined by the international community.
Strong's Concordance translates the word worship as honor. I wouldn't necessarily say the translators made a mistake by using the word worship instead of honor, but surely it confused the situation. BTW, this was by design. We are not supposed to understand until right before the end. Remember, the Lord spoke in parables. Not all are supposed to know…Michael777aka Ephraim
Quote (michael777 @ Dec. 23 2008,08:27) The False Prophet; who and why This letter is written to all Christians interested in Bible prophecy.
Originally, it was never meant to see the light of day. It was developed from a disagreement on Bible prophecy. I was resolved not to send it as I thought it was redundant. It seemed to be a repeat of the issues or a natural conclusion to the facts as stated in my previous letters. Finally, I decided that what I took for granted must be said. Most were either not convinced, or did not understand. Also, this subject matter lends support to my other writings on the end times…
I never know how to start these narratives. I do not comment on many topics, though I may have an opinion. I treat my words as Gold. I keep all my comments strictly on the end times and frequently asked questions. The main subject is always Satan and how he continues to twist the truth to his benefit…
Where prophecy is concerned, it always takes time for events to unfold and become easier to see. This was the case with my posts on prophecy . I never envisioned the six month truce happening between Israel and Hamas, brokered by Egypt. Therefore, events as I see them in my mind, are set back 6 months. A lot has happened though in those six months. The economy is a wreck, the stock market has dropped by nearly half, and oil has dropped to around 30 dollars. The only bright spot is cheaper gas prices, which also means that terrorists get less of our petrol dollars. It's really too bad that our economy is so reliant on oil from countries in the Middle East. These same people want to cut our throats. If we were dealing with any other group of people there would be very little problem, but Islam wants to dominate. It wants everyone in submission to it. Christianity and Islam are incompatible, neither one can accept the other. It has always been this way and will never change. When Islam feels threatened, it finds new and improved ways to subvert the masses. Ask yourself this. Why won't Saudi Arabia allow Christians? In the U.S. we call that discrimination, lacking tolerance or being politically incorrect. When they can't have what they want they use our own laws against us. If all else fails and sometimes not, they use the Jihad excuse. I have heard it said many times. This is just our natural response…
Back to the topic. I was going to keep this part to myself. I really saw no need to post it, but maybe I was wrong. You be the judge. This letter shall be in every place that has received previous posts by me. Therefore, all one has to do to get further explanation is to search out my screen name and all posts by me. This letter is a response to a question from a skeptic. Here we go…
First of all, I did not set any dates. Furthermore, I have never named the false prophet. I have never named him because I saw no reason to name him. I figured by naming the beast (Mahmoud Abbas) everyone could see who the false prophet was. Since according to you I have committed slander, let's take that one step further. I haven't named the false prophet until this very post. I will not keep silent anymore. Here he is.
The false prophet is Ismail Haniyeh.Most of you probably don't know who he is, so indulge me for a second. Ismail Haniyeh is the leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip. He shared power with Abbas for a short time during 2006 in the Unity Government.
When Hamas chose not to honor the image of the beast, the international community cut off support to Abbas and the Palestinians. The image of the beast is three items; honoring all prior Palestinian agreements, recognizing Israel's right to exist and a renunciation of terror. Hamas enters the picture in Revelation 13:11. They are one horn of the beast, just as Abbas is also a horn. A horn is a king. Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast Abbas and caused them to worship the first beast (Abbas).
How did Haniyeh cause them to worship the first beast?
Because Hamas would not honor or abide by any prior Palestinian agreements and continued to sponsor terrorism, he caused the whole world to honor the image of the beast (which was Abbas and his government without Hamas). By not honoring or worshipping the image, Hamas caused the whole world to reject Hamas. This is just exactly the opposite of what Christians are taught. Most believe the false prophet is supposed to lead worship of some manlike image. This is absolutely wrong. The image is the Palestinian Government prior to the arrival of Hamas as a part in it. Hamas caused the world to honor the image. An Image defined by the international community.
Strong's Concordance translates the word worship as honor. I wouldn't necessarily say the translators made a mistake by using the word worship instead of honor, but surely it confused the situation. BTW, this was by design. We are not supposed to understand until right before the end. Remember, the Lord spoke in parables. Not all are supposed to know…Michael777aka Ephraim
Greetings Mike…..Interesting spin and I must say”orderly and some what factual”….The problem here is the false prophet you speak of will probably come out of Europe and will be a church leader (Universal Church CC )this man will have power to perform miracles and will cause many to worship the beast..Israel and the middle east will be in a state of chaos and the forces of Jihad will probably be one of the first victims of this new world order coming out of Europe….Let us not forget that Jerusalem is the prize and Rome has great interest in its possession….Mike and Theodorej… Greetings!
It seems to me that many Bible Students connect this Scriptural passage with a single person playing the role as “False Prophet.” I doubt that to be true. The fact that this “person” is associated with the “beasts” of Revelation would suggest to me that it indicates political world powers, not any particular individual.
As any Student of Scripture will conclude, “beasts” and “horns” are always connected to World Powers. (see Daniel 7:1-8,15-25 and Chapter 8) Chapter 13 of Revelation focuses on the “beast from the sea” and the “beast from the Earth” and seems to connect the dots by their relationship to Daniel’s presentation.
Also of interest is the final beast, the one that goes off to destruction. (Revelation 17:8-13) According to Revelation 17:11, this final beast is “one of the seven” (preceding world powers) and has authority over the “ten horns… which are ten kings… for about an hour.” ( a short period of time.)
Now, if my memory is correct, most all of the past ruling world powers were associated in one way or another, either by political ties or through bloodlines. Either way, our current political system tracks itself back quite a ways.
One thing for certain; Babylon the Great is not in itself a political world power. She believes herself as a “queen” (Revelation 18:7) because of her successful dealings with the Political World Powers over the centuries, but eventually is destroyed by the “ten horns” and the “beast” as Revelation 17:16 relates.
I see no Hamas being involved within this Revelation account. Do let me know your thoughts.
God bless!
To all
Why is it that everyone thinks that the beast coming out of the sea, means water?
Daniel explained in chapter 7, the four beasts were four kings, verse 17. They are the four empires; Babylon, Media-Persian, Greek, and Rome; are you suggesting they came out of the ocean?
“Sea” means from all the kingdoms. “Earth” means from all the people.
Rev. 13:1 is the Roman beast, the different parts of the previous beasts show, Rome was as bad as the three before it put together.
The seven heads on the beast in Rev. 17:3, represent the seven world-ruling governments. When the western leg of Rome fell, that was the end of a world-ruling government; but the idea was never forgotten. Verse 10 talks about the seventh head/beast, when it comes it will only last a short time.
That beast was “the League of Nation”, the ten horns were all the nations that belonged to it, they gave their power to the beast. It only lasted from 1918 – 1946, a short time. But it says in verse 11, there is yet another beast to come out of the seventh, “even he is the eighth”.
When “the League of Nation” collapsed, out of it came “the United Nation”; it too will go into perdition.
It will be the last attempt to rule the world by one government, before Jesus Christ hakes over.
The false prophet so called because he teaches a false doctrine, is the pope, Catholic church.
The beast out of the earth, is the pope, because he came up from among he people; he conquered not by force, but by threats, and the superstition of the people.
The image of the beast is the pope because he structured himself after the beast/Rome.
Compare:
The emperor—the pope.
The senators—the cardinals.
The governors— the bishops.
The mayors—the priests and monks.
And no, the pope did not perform any miracles; but he did make many people wonder how a man of God could be so cruel to people.
One more thing; there will be no resurrection of the Roman empire.Georg
PS. theodorej, did you read my post on antichrist? It is posted on the Forum under “Truth or Tradition”. The one Meerkat started.Georg… Greetings!
There are sound Scriptural reasons for understanding why the Beast From the Sea (Revelation 13:1) is depicted in that manner. Look at how the Scriptures explains the matter:
Isaiah 57:20 (New American Standard Bible)“But the wicked are like the tossing sea,
For it cannot be quiet,
And its waters toss up refuse and mud.”Revelation 17:15 (New American Standard Bible)
“And he said to me, ‘The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.’”If you can see the symbolic nature of “sea” and “water” and how it so aptly portrays the restless nature of mankind, especially in these last days when radicals and fanatics run ramped across out globe, you can understand why those words were used by Holy Men of Old inspired by God’s Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:21)
God bless!
samual
You did notice that the beast in Rev. 13:1 was made up of parts of three other beasts?
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Now, compare them to the three beasts in the book of Daniel.
Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
Dan 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.The fourth beast was worth then all the others, the Roman beast.
Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
And the Bible explains what these beasts are.
Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Four kings or kingdoms, empires.
The beast in Rev. 13:1 is the fourth beast, the Roman beast.
The harlot sitting on the beast inRev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
is representing all false religion, -woman/church; the seven heads representing the seven kingdoms/empires of the Bible, showing that all kingdoms of the world were influenced by false religion.
Georg
Tifany… Greetings!
I do understand your point; however, the “beast from the sea” at Revelation 13:1 seems different than the “beast from the earth” at verse 11. In fact, according to verse 12, it assumes world dominance away from the “beast from the sea” but “exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence.”
I have to believe “in his presence” suggests that the first beast remains in the background while this takes place. But there is a marked change in the attitude of this “beast from the earth.” We see that this beast “had two horns like a lamb.” What I wonder is this: Jesus is the “Lamb of God.” Could this two horned beast have something to do with Christianity being involved with this “beast from the earth?”
Do let me know your thoughts. God bless!
Samual
A beast coming out of the sea; sea meaning from all the other kingdoms. In this instant, Rev. 13:1, it is Rome. Rome was stronger then the other kingdoms, and conquered them.
A beast coming out of the earth; earth meaning from all the conquered people.
Who ever rules over the people is the head of the beast, king.
The beast/ruler coming out of the earth, verse 11, is very much different. He tried to appear as the lamb of God, Christ, but he spoke as a dragon/devil; his doctrines were false. He is in fact the Antichrist. He is called a beast/ruler because after the western leg of the Roman empire collapsed he took full charge of it; until then however, he obeyed the first beast/Rome as did all other people.Georg
Tiffany… Greetings!
There are points that you make that I can see as logical and in sync with Scripture; however, Rome doesn’t quite fit the picture when you look closely at the things this last beast performs:
Revelation 13:13 (New American Standard Bible)
“He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.”When did the Romans ever bring “fire down from heaven?” You see, every prophecy must be plainly seen to comply with other Scriptural evidence. That’s the reason I see the current scene (since 1945 and the atomic/nuclear/ space age) as fitting the above description more so than ancient Rome.
That being said, of course, the connection with the beast of Revelation 13:13 must coincide with the following:
Daniel 7:7 (New American Standard Bible)
“After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.”Revelation 17:12 (New American Standard Bible)
“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.”The Scriptural evidence points to a Super World Power (the last Beast) that has (10 kings) representing all other kingdoms in subjection. That this last Beast has such power over the other kings is amplified for us in this next Scripture:
Revelation 13:15-17 (New American Standard Bible)
“And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.”These events have not yet taken place on a global scale as is suggested by the foregoing Scriptures. Yes, some African countries have used this method of subjecting their people under one banner, but Revelation portrays a much larger scale… global.
Much of the ancient Roman political system remains within the modern Democratic system. In that way, most likely, the words written at Revelation 17:11 that states the last beast “is himself also an eighth king, and one of the seven” comes into play.
As for the antichrist, I rather suspect this applies to religion not politics. However, if it does happen to involve Kings, then more likely it would represent an anti-religious aspect, much like communism verses democracy. That works quite well when you see the “ten kings” mourning over the loss of Babylon the Great (Revelation 18:1); strongly suggestive of the “ten kings” having been forced to destroy the great harlot rather than doing so willingly.
Much to reflect on here. Your thoughts are eagerly awaited. God bless!
Samual
Rev. 13:13 is not the same beast as in verse 1. Rev. 13:13 is the image of the first beast/Rome; he is the impostor/lamb. he is the beast out of the earth/people; he is the little horn in Dan. 7:8; he is the Antichrist, he holds all these titles.
No, the Romans never brought down any fire from heaven, neither did the Antichrist/pope. Fire were the fiery trials he put the saints though.1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
From heaven? heaven above is the place of all authority;; heavens on earth are places of religious authority; the popes heaven is the Vatican.
In the presence of men? public torture and execution.
Dan. 7:7 is the Roman beast. Ten is not a number of ten individuals, it is the number of completion, or total, meaning all included, as inDan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
The Roman empire lasted till the middle of the 15th century, and had over a 100 kings ruling it; the one that is diverse, is Antichrist.
Rev. 17:3 is yet another beast; it is made up of all the kings in verse 12. They all give their power to the beast and by doing so they all become strong; this beast is, or was, the “League of Nation”. It lasted only for a short time, 1918 – 1946. But out of it came the eighth, not really another beast, it had changed in name only, it is now the “United Nation”.
The image/pope/Antichrist/beast, gave himself the breath, power to rule. Anyone that would not worship the image, except his rule, would be killed.
Anyone who would not except his doctrine, right hand, would be killed.
Anyone who would not believe his doctrine, forehead, would be killed.
No one but the clergy was allowed to “by”, possess, a Bible.
No one but the clergy was allowed to “sell” a Bible to another clergy, he who had the mark of the beast/Rome; the mark of Rome is/was the cross.
If you were caught reading a Bible, any part of it, you were killed.
A name can also be a title; the pope has on his crown written in LatinV I C A R I V S – F I L I I – D E I
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1 = 666As you can see, some Latin letters have a numerical value; translated this means; “Vicar of the Son of God”, a title the pope gave himself. That is exactly what Jesus said.
John 5:43 “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive (believe) me not; if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive (believe).”
You are right, you ask much, and I answered much, so take your time reading through it.
Georg
Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 28 2008,09:58) Samual Rev. 13:13 is not the same beast as in verse 1. Rev. 13:13 is the image of the first beast/Rome; he is the impostor/lamb. he is the beast out of the earth/people; he is the little horn in Dan. 7:8; he is the Antichrist, he holds all these titles.
No, the Romans never brought down any fire from heaven, neither did the Antichrist/pope. Fire were the fiery trials he put the saints though.1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
From heaven? heaven above is the place of all authority;; heavens on earth are places of religious authority; the popes heaven is the Vatican.
In the presence of men? public torture and execution.
Dan. 7:7 is the Roman beast. Ten is not a number of ten individuals, it is the number of completion, or total, meaning all included, as inDan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
The Roman empire lasted till the middle of the 15th century, and had over a 100 kings ruling it; the one that is diverse, is Antichrist.
Rev. 17:3 is yet another beast; it is made up of all the kings in verse 12. They all give their power to the beast and by doing so they all become strong; this beast is, or was, the “League of Nation”. It lasted only for a short time, 1918 – 1946. But out of it came the eighth, not really another beast, it had changed in name only, it is now the “United Nation”.
The image/pope/Antichrist/beast, gave himself the breath, power to rule. Anyone that would not worship the image, except his rule, would be killed.
Anyone who would not except his doctrine, right hand, would be killed.
Anyone who would not believe his doctrine, forehead, would be killed.
No one but the clergy was allowed to “by”, possess, a Bible.
No one but the clergy was allowed to “sell” a Bible to another clergy, he who had the mark of the beast/Rome; the mark of Rome is/was the cross.
If you were caught reading a Bible, any part of it, you were killed.
A name can also be a title; the pope has on his crown written in LatinV I C A R I V S – F I L I I – D E I
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1 = 666As you can see, some Latin letters have a numerical value; translated this means; “Vicar of the Son of God”, a title the pope gave himself. That is exactly what Jesus said.
John 5:43 “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive (believe) me not; if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive (believe).”
You are right, you ask much, and I answered much, so take your time reading through it.
Georg
Greetings Georg……This is obviously your topic and I can see you have learned it well and it is a blessing to be able to communicate it as you do….There are many alpha numeric combinations that add up to 666…In support of your thesis the present pope fits the prototype better than any before for several reasons….He is continueing his predessors effort to unify the christian church..( Those that hold to the decree of Nicea)He will be sucessful in his efforts and then the focus will be on Jerusalem….His emergence is iminent and in partnership will be an organized Europe with Germany as its head..(return of the Assyrian,or the war man of the days of rome Germania)….The simbolic references to those that will accept the sign of the beast….could point to Sabbath keeping and working…We must not lose sight of the purpose of the Universal Church…And that is one that will entail Global acceptance of the doctrines of the church and the diefication of its self proclaimed infalible leader….Tiffany… Greetings!
I know that the WTS believes that the Beast that Was and the Beast that Is to be the League of Nations and the follow-up United Nations, and at this point of time, I have to accept that as a distinct possibility… with some reservation, as it has been labeled many times as being nothing more than a toothless tiger.
I also agree, in part, with your analysis of the “ten kings” as meaning “completion” or all of them. However, I do not accept that these verses relate strictly to the Roman Empire and the “100 kings” that you suggest. I have what I consider valid reasons for my conclusion.
First off, “beasts” and “horns” within Scripture have always represented Kingdoms and World Powers and never religious order. Babylon the Great, although she “says in her heart, ‘I sit as a Queen’” that in no way signifies her being symbolized as a “beast.” (Revelation 18:7) Remember, Babylon the Great is pictured “sitting on a scarlet beast” and sitting on something does not imply being a physical part of what is beneath, no more than a man is part of a chair he sits on. (Revelation 17:3)
Looking back through history, it isn’t very difficult to understand what Babylon the Great gains from “sitting on a scarlet beast.” You, yourself, made mention of it:
“Anyone that would not worship the image, except his rule, would be killed.
Anyone who would not except his doctrine, right hand, would be killed.
Anyone who would not believe his doctrine, forehead, would be killed.
No one but the clergy was allowed to “by”, possess, a Bible.
No one but the clergy was allowed to “sell” a Bible to another clergy, he who had the mark of the beast/Rome; the mark of Rome is/was the cross.
If you were caught reading a Bible, any part of it, you were killed.”Look how the Jewish religious leaders used the Roman Power of the day to kill the Son of God! (Matthew 26:59; 27:20) Babylon the Great uses the Political Beastly Powers to carry out their dirty work thereby sitting or riding (influencing) the beast, but in no way is she a symbolic beast herself.
Although I am impressed by your Roman Numeral analysis of the title the pope gave himself: V I C A R I V S – F I L I I – D E I
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1 = 666 I cannot agree that either beast, the one from the sea nor the one from the earth, represent the Pope.
But I do recall that after World War one and the League of Nation was formed; then, when World War Two began and ended the League’s existence, they followed up with the United Nations. That scenario does fit the events described in Revelation 13:11-14. Also of interest is this: If the above scenario is true (which I can believe is so at this point of time), then verses 15-17 of Chapter 13 is yet future. Would this not issue in the “great Tribulation” that Matthew 24:21 and Revelation 7:9 relates? Keep in mind, “there will be a great tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.”I await your response. God bless!
Samual
The label “beast” was given to these empires because that is how they behaved when they conquered other nation. The seven heads on the three beasts in Rev. 12, 13, and 17, represent the seven empires of the bible. So why are there only four animals/beasts mentioned in Dan. 7; Lion, Bear, Leopard, and the terrible one, when there are seven? By the time Daniel received the vision, two of the heads/empires, Egypt and Assyria, had already come and gone. The seventh head, your toothless tiger, did not try to conquer by force, he just wants to rule the world.
The woman sitting on the beast in Rev. 17:3 symbolizes religion/church. Sitting on the seven heads/governments shows that religion has influenced all governments.
The pope is the Antichrist of the Bible, he did everything that Rev. 13 said he would do. He is the image of the beast/Rome; he caused the image to speak/rule; he made war with the saints, persecuted them for 1,260 years. He began to rule in 565 AD, and was dethroned by Napoleon in 1813 AD.Dan 11:36 And the king (Napoleon) shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god (ruler), and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods (ruler of rulers, the pope), and shall prosper till the indignation (humiliation) be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Napoleon imprisoned the pope in 1809 and made him sign a document, turning the Papal states and other powers over to him, the pope was then released in 1813.
Everything in Rev. 13 has come to pass.
Mat.24:21 speaks of the greatest tribulation the Jews ever had endure; it happened during the reign of Adolph Hitler, and had Germany won the war, there would be no flesh/Jew alive today.
The same tribulation is spoken of inJer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
and in
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
There can only be one greatest tribulation.
Rev. 7:9 is a vision for John, showing him that there will be saints from all nations in the spiritual kingdom of God, the result of preaching the gospel into all the world.Georg
Tiffany… Greetings!
It is true that religion has influenced Kings for millenniums, but they have never been termed “beasts” within Scripture. I can, however, consider you remarks about the succession of Popes representing the “man of lawlessness” or the “antichrist” as being logical seeing that they have taught their followers outright lies, all of which, can be Scripturally challenged. But the Scriptures prove to me that the Popes “sit on a scarlet beast,” they are not the beast itself. (Revelation 13:3)
Your rendition of how Napoleon imprisoned the Pope in his day is very well orchestrated. And as for the tribulation that the Jews endured during World War Two was indeed a tribulation for them. However, the “great Tribulation” spoken of at Revelation 7:9,14 speaks of yet a final tribulation, not one brought about by mankind and their quest for world domination, but a tribulation brought against mankind by God Himself. (Revelation 16:13-16)
Jesus Christ spoke of this day:
Luke 17:26-27 (New American Standard Bible)
“And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.”Revelation 19:19-21 (New American Standard Bible)
“And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.”This day remains on the horizon. No greater Tribulation will ever occur on the earth than what looms ahead of us. You can imagine these events as having happened already, but you will have misread both the signs and the times.
God bless!
Samual
What lies ahead is the wrath of God on all nations; if you referred to that as the greatest tribulation, then you're right. The tribulation Jesus spoke of in Mat. 24:21,22 was a prophecy for the Jewish people, it did happen as I said.
What John saw in Rev. 7:9,14, were all the saints that had given, and would be given their life for Jesus as a testimony of their faith; persecuted, and executed first under the Romans, and then under the Antichrist. That too happened as I said.
What you say I orchestrated, Napoleon and the pope, you can find in history books. That too happened as I said.
Now, this may come as a shocker to you, Rev. 16:1-21; those bowls have already been emptied.
In reference to the three frogs, they are unclean/evil spirits. The dragon is Satan the devil, the beast are all the governments of the world; the false prophet are all the religion of the world.
Look at the world, and I do mean the world; I don't know how old you are, but if you could go back just fifty years, you would think you were in a different world. Yes, Satan is getting the world ready for the final battle, but it wont happen the way most people think.Georg
Tiffany… Greetings!
Actually, I am three score and six years old and I have witnessed much of world events over that time. I agree with you that today’s world is radically changed over that many years. And I also agree with you that much of what Jesus related at Matthew 24:1-21 did occur in 70CE; but not all!
Considering Scriptural accounts from the Apostles, for example, I see no evidence that verse 5 and 23-24 having fulfillment prior to 70CE. Nor do I see verse 21 having been much worse than the Babylonian conquest in circa 607 BCE although its ramification (70CE) remains in evidence to this very day.
The most crucial evidence, in my opinion, that at least part of Jesus’ prophecy pointed into the future, is found in verses 29-31:
Matthew 24:29-31 (New American Standard Bible)
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.”Can you really claim that these verses were fulfilled in 70CE? Did “all the tribes of the earth… mourn” at this time? How about “His angels” that “gather together His elect from the four winds?” Did that actually take place during the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Army? What these verses tell me is that the Angels gathering of the elect was far more refined than what the Roman Army inflicted on the Jewish Nation. Sorting out the bad guys from the good guys just doesn’t seem compatible with Roman technique. Their swords didn’t really care who was good or bad and spilled both guilty and innocent blood without consideration for either.
The Scriptures contain much metaphoric expression, symbolic language that requires divine interpretation. I am not saying that what you have detailed regarding Napoleon or the Pope did not occur, just that it may not be associated with what the Divine Author intended. Recall what the Apostle Paul warned:
1 Corinthians 8:2 (New American Standard Bible)
“If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know.”I keep that verse in mind whenever I consider that I know something that others have missed. I also apply it to others that think their interpretation is without error. If we are to fully grasp Scriptural Truth without error, we must listen to what the Spirit says. Jesus gave us the modus operandi at John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13. I am certain that you agree to the importance of following this procedure in our Bible study.
Revelation 16 contains symbolic expression that require Divine interpretation to understand. The WTS believes they have the full understanding of most, if not all, of the Revelation account. I suspect they don’t. After all, Jesus said it was His angels that collected the Elect from the four winds; not once does the Scriptures mention they were collected to Brooklyn, New York.
One other point of interest: You mentioned that Armageddon wouldn’t happen they way most people think. Would you mind elaborating further on the remark? I await your response. God Bless!
Samual
Well, I have five years on you, and hear is what I have on the Olivette prophecy.
Jesus Christ predicted three tribulation periods for God’s people, the Israelites or Jews, in what is known as the Olivette prophesy.
The first, as it is recorded in
Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”
The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple occurred in AD 70, by the Romans; it not only brought an end to animal sacrifices, but it was also the end of the Jewish nation, also called the house of Judah. Jesus had just spoken of their destruction in
Mat. 23:38 “Behold, your house (nation) is left unto you desolate.”
Those that survived the slaughter were carried into all the world, just as Ezekiel prophesied they would while they were still in their Babylonian captivity.
Eze. 22:15 “And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee.”
The second tribulation period was during Hitler’s reign.
Mat. 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Hitler had a hatred for the Jews that had he won the war; there would be no flesh – Jew – alive today, but for the elects’ – Jews – sake, those days were shortened; Germany lost the war.
Mat. 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect sake those days shall be shortened.”
Jeremiah and Daniel also spoke of this particular tribulation.
Jer. 30:7 “Alas! For that day (time) is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s (Israel’s) trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.”
Dan. 12:1 “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered…”
The fact that all three books mention the worst time ever for the Israelites, and in each prophecy they were to be saved out of it, is prove that they all point to the same tribulation. The worst time in Jewish history was during the reign of Adolf Hitler. God chose the Israelites as his special people and they still are.
Deut. 7:6 “For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God; The Lord thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.”
Rom. 11:28 “As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes; but as touching the election, the are beloved for the Fathers’ sakes.”
The third tribulation period is just ahead. Jesus mentions it only by saying what will happen after it
Mat. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days (our days) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.”
This will not only be a tribulation for the Israelites, but for the rest of the world as well. All religious powers and governments hear on earth will be shaken up. What we see on TV now and read in News Paper almost every day is exactly what Zechariah said would happen over 2000 years ago.
Zech. 12:2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”
v. 3 “And in that day (our time) will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”
What we are witnessing today is Satan’s desperate attempt to destroy mankind, with any means possible.
Rev. 16:13 “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.”
This is to say that the dragon, which is Satan the Devil, has the beast/government, and the false prophet/religion, under his control, and with that the entire world.
v. 14 “For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”
They are the spirits of demons, and what they have done to the minds of people is nothing short of a miracle. Satan is working overtime in the minds of world leaders, and in his churches. Blaming the Israelites for the attacks of terrorists, and pressuring the Israeli government to give up land for peace, while the whole world knows, the sons of Ishmael don’t want peace, they want the sons of Jacob, Israel, dead. But Satan is also working in the minds of the people. Can you ever remember a time when people in our country behaved the way they do now? If you go back as little as 50 years, you would think you were in a different world. There is not a night going by were you don’t hear of shooting, murder, rape, or child molesting. Satan has managed to blind the eyes and stop up the ears of people, even those that call themselves Christians. They have allowed God and Jesus to be removed from this country. And is our government and learning institutions doing anything about it? NO, in fact, they lead the parade. This nation, and the rest of the world for that matter, has become so advanced with all sorts of technology; and everybody struggles to keep up, no matter what the cost. The problem with all that is, the more people have, the less they care.
How may people understand that we are living in the last decade of “this generation” that would not pass away till all things be fulfilled?I will share with you my study on “the seven trumpets, and the seven bowls” under a new thread, on “Biblical Prophecy”.
Georg
Tiffany… Greetings!
What you say about the comparison of 50 years ago is quite correct. The more people have the less they care, especially about Godly things, better known as Spiritual matters. And there’s no question about the tribulations the Jews have experienced since their house was abandoned, left desolate.
As I watch the news of the slaughter going down over in Gaza each day, I can’t help but believe a disaster is about to fall on Israel. I think that many Students of the Bible believe Israel received back their land in 1948 and that God had returned favor on them. I don’t happen to be one of them.
The reason I say this is because of what Paul said about what constitutes God’s Holy People since 70CE. Take a look:
Romans 4:1-3 (New American Standard Bible)
“What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? ‘ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.’”Romans 2:28-29 (New American Standard Bible)
“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.”Ephesians 2:11-16 (New American Standard Bible)
“Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands– remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.”And Jesus supported Paul’s thoughts by saying:
John 4:22-24 (New American Standard Bible)
“You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”Natural Israel lost out as a nation of God’s Holy People in 70CE. But Spiritual Israel began. Like Abraham, Spiritual Israel exercises Faith in the Son of God and needs not rest on their being of flesh and blood descendents of Abraham. Both believing Jews and Gentiles now make up the Israel of God, the same spiritual makeup as was Abraham in his pre-circumcised state. That is why I know the slaughter and mayhem in the middle east does not favor either Jew nor Palestinian, that the impending great tribulation will include this entire planet, just as Jesus predicted:
John 3:16 (New American Standard Bible)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”Whether Jew or Gentile, belief in Jesus is the key to survival through this upcoming great tribulation. Do not expect a happy ending to the Middle East Conflict nor the short-term salvation of Jerusalem. I may be wrong, but the Scriptures say I’m not.
God bless!
Samual
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Jer 32:37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:
Jer 32:38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.
God never brakes a promise.
Georg
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