The divider of Christians

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,21:40)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 21 2013,23:39) Of course the Son is not the Father! And who does scripture says is our only God? 1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father…….. Paul says our one God IS the Father.

Been down this road.

If this scripture means that only the Father is God then it must also mean only Jesus is Lord!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,21:08)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2013,00:36) So if at 10:am you have 100 groups of three gathered in his name how could he be “IN THE MIDST” OF THEM IF HE IS NOT Omnipresent or GOD? Let me use your scriptural reference to make my point, Keith: If Jesus is ONLY in the midst of groups of three or more who are presently gathered in his name, then there are thousands of places where he ISN'T at that very time. If this was not true, then it would have been utterly useless for him to say he'd be there WHEN three or more are gathered in his name.  That implies that he is not ALWAYS there, right?

Once again you are trying to understand spiritual truths with the carnal mind. Are you saved Mike?

You can't see the forest for the trees. Mike Jesus is already present in the disciples before they gather. Is he not in you or are you reprobate? 2 Cor 13:5

Jesus dwells in the hearts of millions of people all over the world! He said he would never leave us. He said we are in the palm of his hands! He said the hairs of our heads are numbered.

God is everywhere but makes himself known by opening spiritual hearts and eyes. The Bible teaches his eyes sees all things and all things are in his hands.

You serve such a little God. Do you know him?

The Bible says by him (Jesus) all things consist! Chew on that!

The problem is you cannot see that God lives in another dimension than this physical universe. He created it all by his finger tips Mike. When you understand that his coming and going and the word pictures of his hands and feet are merely God manifesting himself from another dimension into this one then you will begin to understand. God can be in all dimensions at the same time.

Your Jesus and your God is too small Mike!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,20:56)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 21 2013,23:39) That would mean that they are sons of God as equally as Jesus, is that what you believe? Absolutely – with the exception that Jesus was the FIRST son God ever created, and all the other spirit sons of God were created BY God and THROUGH His FIRST son, Jesus.

Oh that's right like the JWs you believe Jesus is an angel like the seraphim or something.

Well Mike then you do not believe that Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” and that would mean you are not saved.

If Jesus nature is as an angel then show me a scripture where an angel can be in more than one place at the same time!

Show me a scripture where an angel can dwell in the hearts of millions of souls all over the world.

Show me a scripture where an angel can hold millions of his people in their hand.

Show me an angel that can say to all of Gods people “I will never leave you nor forsake you”.

The angels can't do this because their nature is not “the exact representation of Gods”.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,20:56)

God is spirit, Keith.  So is Jesus.

True and Jesus like the Father can be in more than one place at a time. Show me an angel that can do that! 

Goodnight!  

WJ

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,16:46)

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2013,04:04) It doesn't change the meaning of the word 'representation'. If something represents a hammer, then is it that hammer? Actually, the Greek word usually translated as “representation” is “charakter”.  A “charakter” is the engraving tool that stamped an image into metal.  They used to show one at the end of certain movies – a big hand with a hammer stamping the studio's logo into a piece of metal. But not only is the tool itself called a “charakter”, the engraving left from the tool being hammered into the metal is likewise the “charakter”. In other words, the image made on the metal FROM the tool is the “exact representation” (charakter) of the tool that made the image.  But the image on the metal isn't actually the tool itself.

Thanks for that.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,22:27)

Been down this road. If this scripture means that only the Father is God then it must also mean only Jesus is Lord! WJ

Did it ever occur to you that God is perhaps greater than Lord.

After all, there are many lords. Landlords, warlords, the lord of the manor, The house of lords, and the one whom God made Lord of all, Jesus.

Just because God made Jesus Lord does not mean that God is less than Jesus or even equal to him. God is greater.

Thus Jesus being Lord does not mean that he is greater than God.

Playing with the word Lord as you do is just your way of attacking the scriptures that are teaching us that there is one God the Father, and one Lord the Lord Jesus Christ.

You obviously oppose this and you don't even hide this fact. Thus we know you are wrong because you go against scripture. Although this is evident, it is not to you. I call that blindness.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,16:13)

Okay, let's follow that reasoning for a minute.  Let's say that God's Spirit IS what quarks are made of.  Now we have two choices: 1.  The quarks are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, meaning the electrons are subsequently made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, and the atoms are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, which means WE are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit.  That means WE are God. 2.  The quarks are made PARTLY of God's Spirit.  In that case, there are parts of the quarks with AREN'T made of God's Spirit, which means God is NOT everywhere all the time. At whichever level you decide that humans are made of something OTHER THAN God, you have also decided that God is not everywhere, IMO. My belief is that God CAN BE anywhere He wants to be at any particular time.  But He is not “everywhere all the time” (omnipresent).   Zechariah 1:8-11 speaks of beings who go about the earth and report what they find back to God.  Why the need for the reports? And Jesus speaks about the angels of little children, who report to the face of God on a daily basis.  (Matthew 18:10)  Why would these little ones need angels to report back to God about how they were being treated? There are of course, other scriptural examples such as these.

Hi Mike.

I replied here rather than diverge from this topic.

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=4593

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,22:44)

Jesus dwells in the hearts of millions of people all over the world! He said he would never leave us. He said we are in the palm of his hands! He said the hairs of our heads are numbered. God is everywhere but makes himself known by opening spiritual hearts and eyes. The Bible teaches his eyes sees all things and all things are in his hands. You serve such a little God. Do you know him? The Bible says by him (Jesus) all things consist! Chew on that! The problem is you cannot see that God lives in another dimension than this physical universe. He created it all by his finger tips Mike. When you understand that his coming and going and the word pictures of his hands and feet are merely God manifesting himself from another dimension into this one then you will begin to understand. God can be in all dimensions at the same time. Your Jesus and your God is too small Mike! WJ

WJ, it is because Jesus ascends higher than all the heavens, he is able to fill the whole universe.

And saying that Mike's God is small is foolish because Mikes God is YHWH. Yours is the Trinity. So you call YHWH small.

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,13:45)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,21:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2013,14:28) No, Jesus is not the Father but Jesus nature is God! Didn't you just say “God” was a “title”?  Explain to me how “God” is a “nature”, Keith. Nature a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence Examples: Dog is a title. A dogs nature is dog! Men that have an “evil nature” means they are evil! Back to the basics! WJ

wj

that is funny ,

Nature of a dog = dog

nature of man = man

a dog in his nature can be more than just a dog ;carnivore,

so a wolf and a shiatsu have the same nature

so Satan and his servants have the same nature than Christ and the saints

so all cakes are the same ,so it is the NAME THAT MATTER NOT THE REAL NATURE OF THINGS right

is not the essence the very specifics of every individual

and the common just the structure of it ;like man his flesh and all men are flesh ,

and dogs are animal and so all dogs are animal but all dogs do not bit their master .

it seems that your basic are not basic at all ,but corruption

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,11:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,13:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,21:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2013,14:28) No, Jesus is not the Father but Jesus nature is God! Didn't you just say “God” was a “title”?  Explain to me how “God” is a “nature”, Keith. Nature a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence Examples: Dog is a title. A dogs nature is dog! Men that have an “evil nature” means they are evil! Back to the basics! WJ so Satan and his servants have the same nature than Christ and the saints

Why don't you ask Mike because that is what he believes.

Whats a matter, you won't challenge your peer?

Mike Believes Jesus nature and the angels nature is the exact same as the Fathers nature because they are spirits.

Well so are satan and demons spirits!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 23 2013,04:29)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,22:27) Been down this road. If this scripture means that only the Father is God then it must also mean only Jesus is Lord! WJ Did it ever occur to you that God is perhaps greater than Lord.

Yep he is….

“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;” 1Tim 6:15

But guess what the Father is Lord and God and so is Jesus…

“And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” Rev 19:16

WJ

[kerwin]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,01:57)

I agree with you William and I am glad that we agree together on the Nicene Creed and both understand the word 'catholic' as meaning universal and not Roman Catholic. I'm not sure, but I think that there are currently maybe four of us active here on HN that agree with the Nicene Creed. Maybe there should be another poll about it. Thanks for answering my question.

Kathi and all others,

If my memory is correct the Nicene creed is not just Trinitarian as I do not believe it takes a stand on whether or not the Spirit is a separate person that is part of Yawheh.

The teaching that Yawheh is multiple persons that is one individual sounds more like a disorder than reasonable discovery/revelation. It is a break in the teaching that Jesus is God and God's Word cannot be broken.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 23 2013,04:29)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,22:27) Been down this road. If this scripture means that only the Father is God then it must also mean only Jesus is Lord! WJ Playing with the word Lord as you do is just your way of attacking the scriptures that are teaching us that there is one God the Father, and one Lord the Lord Jesus Christ.

“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;” 1Tim 6:15

So are you saying Paul was teaching there is more than one Lord?

Are you now claiming that this scripture is Jesus and not the Father?

You should believe all scripture t8 and not just a select few that fit into your doctrine!

WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote

So the dog(nature) Spot(identity) begets the dog(nature) Rover(identity). Is Rover less Dog than Spot? That is as easy as I can make it Mike. Can't help you see it more than that.

Yes Keith, that is pretty easy to understand! Nice one!!

[Lightenup]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,12:32)

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,01:57) I agree with you William and I am glad that we agree together on the Nicene Creed and both understand the word 'catholic' as meaning universal and not Roman Catholic. I'm not sure, but I think that there are currently maybe four of us active here on HN that agree with the Nicene Creed. Maybe there should be another poll about it. Thanks for answering my question. Kathi and all others, If my memory is correct the Nicene creed is not just Trinitarian as I do not believe it takes a stand on whether or not the Spirit is a separate person that is part of Yawheh. The teaching that Yawheh is multiple persons that is one individual sounds more like a disorder than reasonable discovery/revelation.  It is a break in the teaching that Jesus is God and God's Word cannot be broken.

Hi Kerwin,
I think you need to reread the Nicene Creed. It doesn't mention the Holy Spirit as a person nor does it teach that YHVH is one individual.

Here it is in the traditional wording:

I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God,
begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost
of the Virgin Mary,
and was made man;
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried;
and the third day he rose again
according to the Scriptures,
and ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
and he shall come again, with glory,
to judge both the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Life,
who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
who with the Father and the Son together
is worshipped and glorified;
who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,23:22)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,11:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,13:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,21:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2013,14:28) No, Jesus is not the Father but Jesus nature is God! Didn't you just say “God” was a “title”?  Explain to me how “God” is a “nature”, Keith. Nature a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence Examples: Dog is a title. A dogs nature is dog! Men that have an “evil nature” means they are evil! Back to the basics! WJ so Satan and his servants have the same nature than Christ and the saints Why don't you ask Mike because that is what he believes. Whats a matter, you won't challenge your peer? Mike Believes Jesus nature and the angels nature is the exact same as the Fathers nature because they are spirits. Well so are satan and demons spirits! WJ

WJ

what do you not know that ; dogs,horses,hypos;cows.cats.ect are all animals ???in their nature ,but in their identity they are

dogs,horses,cows,cats ect

and because the affection men as toward them he give them a personal name do you like dogs WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,14:09)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,23:22) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,11:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,13:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,21:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2013,14:28) No, Jesus is not the Father but Jesus nature is God! Didn't you just say “God” was a “title”?  Explain to me how “God” is a “nature”, Keith. Nature a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence Examples: Dog is a title. A dogs nature is dog! Men that have an “evil nature” means they are evil! Back to the basics! WJ so Satan and his servants have the same nature than Christ and the saints Why don't you ask Mike because that is what he believes. Whats a matter, you won't challenge your peer? Mike Believes Jesus nature and the angels nature is the exact same as the Fathers nature because they are spirits. Well so are satan and demons spirits! WJ WJ what do you not know that ; dogs,horses,hypos;cows.cats.ect are all animals ???in their nature ,but in their identity they are dogs,horses,cows,cats ect

No, the dog does not have the nature of a cat!

Men are mammals but do men have the same nature as a cow?

Men beget men, dogs beget dogs, cows beget cows etc etc etc.

Is this too hard for you?

Back to the drawing board!

WJ

[Lightenup]

Right on Keith. Last I looked, men do not have the same nature as a cow. The term 'cow' is an identity of sorts but within the cow barn, Old Betsie the cow is a different identity than Old Maggie, another cow, yet they are equally both cows. They both have the same strengths and weaknesses, generally speaking if they are both healthy. They both give white milk and they both jump over the moon…and the little dog laughed to see such a site.

Just kidding about the cows jumping over the moon, in case you were wondering. Some reader is going to take that literally…just watch.

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 24 2013,03:24)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,14:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,23:22) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,11:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2013,13:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,21:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2013,14:28) No, Jesus is not the Father but Jesus nature is God! Didn't you just say “God” was a “title”?  Explain to me how “God” is a “nature”, Keith. Nature a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence Examples: Dog is a title. A dogs nature is dog! Men that have an “evil nature” means they are evil! Back to the basics! WJ so Satan and his servants have the same nature than Christ and the saints Why don't you ask Mike because that is what he believes. Whats a matter, you won't challenge your peer? Mike Believes Jesus nature and the angels nature is the exact same as the Fathers nature because they are spirits. Well so are satan and demons spirits! WJ WJ what do you not know that ; dogs,horses,hypos;cows.cats.ect are all animals ???in their nature ,but in their identity they are dogs,horses,cows,cats ect No, the dog does not have the nature of a cat! Men are mammals but do men have the same nature as a cow? Men beget men, dogs beget dogs, cows beget cows etc etc etc. Is this too hard for you? Back to the drawing board! WJ

WJ

Ge 2:19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
Ge 2:20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

Ge 1:24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
Ge 1:25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good

So do you think that Adam would call a dog ,or a cow any thing else ? that what what it make him feel it should be according to him of Cause God says that he created all the ANIMAL AND THAT HE LET ADAM GIVE THEM NAMES ,

only men during the years as multiplied the name by dividing and redividing the animals world,

those are facts

[Proclaimer]

There is a lot of misinformation here.

God made Jesus Lord of his creation. We know this because it is written. That means that the Father is in effect the Lord even over Jesus and guess what, it is us who have been saying this all along, while you guys try to make Jesus an equal part of the Trinity pie.

In addition, we know that God has given all things to him so that they can be redeemed and when we are told that Jesus will give them back to the Father once all is under his feet. This is part of the process of redemption.

If Pharaoh made Joseph lord of his kingdom, then the Pharaoh is still lord over Joseph in the affairs of his kingdom is he not. After all, the Pharaoh could remove Joseph from his position. Except of course that Joseph's God is the Most High, but that is another thing entirely.

It is plain that you guys do not believe that the Father is the only true God as it is clearly declared to us in scripture and that Jesus is the one whom God made Lord over all that is of God as that is written.

You guys continue to blur the lines between God and his son. And it is the distinction of who the son is is the foundation for the Church.

If you attack the foundation of the Church and then claim to be part of the Church, then what manner of persons are you. Whether you understand it or not, you are an enemy if you attack the foundation.

We declare that God made Jesus Jesus Lord of creation and no other. He is the son of God. He is the messiah. He is the firstborn from the dead. We also declare that the God of Jesus is the Father and he is our God too.

If you guys continue in this apostasy, then that is your decision. I myself have decided to come out of that, and drink no more of that doctrine that has made many drunk.

I just see a bunch of plonkers spouting off things that they have little understanding of.

[Proclaimer]

Prepare yourselves Church.

The Binitarians and Trinitarians are attacking us again.

Bring out the Word of God.

[Author]

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