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Hi,
Are all the dead [but living souls]in Christ under the altar as shown in Rev 6.9 or are these only the martyrs for their preaching of the Word?Is this the place Jesus went to prepare for us [Jn 14.3]or not?1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
If you notice this verse, it says that God will brith with him those who sleep. It is the souls those who's bodies sleep in the grave.
Also, the most important thing I would like to mention is that it says in scripture that one must confess with his mouth unto salvation. Those who died prior to the time of Jesus who believed unto righteousness, could not make confession with their mouth while alive, because Christ had not yet defeated death. So when they died, they were still held under the bondage of death. They could not make confession with their mouths, for the event of Christ's death and resurrection had not taken place yet. It was not till Jesus died without sin, that he defeated death, and went and preached to the captive souls being held in death. It was then they made confession with their mouths unto salvation. This was the place referred to by our Lord as the bosom of Abraham.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Proof that the soul can speak and has a mouth can be found in 1 Samuel 28.
Please forgive the type errors. This live should read bring, not birth.
If you notice this verse, it says that God will bring with him those who sleep. It is the souls those who's bodies sleep in the grave.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 05 2006,16:43) 1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. If you notice this verse, it says that God will brith with him those who sleep. It is the souls those who's bodies sleep in the grave.
Also, the most important thing I would like to mention is that it says in scripture that one must confess with his mouth unto salvation. Those who died prior to the time of Jesus who believed unto righteousness, could not make confession with their mouth while alive, because Christ had not yet defeated death. So when they died, they were still held under the bondage of death. They could not make confession with their mouths, for the event of Christ's death and resurrection had not taken place yet. It was not till Jesus died without sin, that he defeated death, and went and preached to the captive souls being held in death. It was then they made confession with their mouths unto salvation. This was the place referred to by our Lord as the bosom of Abraham.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Proof that the soul can speak and has a mouth can be found in 1 Samuel 28.
Hi H,
It is indeed we seal our salvation by the words of our mouth as it is the good fruit of our lips as was the Spirit given confession of Peter.1Cor 12.3 tells in faith that us none can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit of God.
Unless men preach Jesus none can come to the faith that comes by hearing.
Again those saved in the sheep and goat judgement are saved because they helped those in Christ, BECAUSE they belong to Christ, and how can they know this unless we shine our light from the hilltops?
Again those saved in the sheep and goat judgement are saved because they helped those in Christ, BECAUSE they belong to Christ, and how can they know this unless we shine our light from the hilltops?
Nick, if you are referring to the dead, who died before Christ. They did not get saved until Jesus went and preached to them in the Bosom of Abraham. Is this what you are referring to when you say those of the sheep and goat judgement?
1 Pet. 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Hi H,
I was referring to Matt 25 31 f.
This is after the second resurrection and is the mercy judgement on those who have NOT already passed from death to life.
It is the judgement of the world and is according to their works done to those who are in Christ.31″But when (A)the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then (B)He will sit on His glorious throne.
32″All the nations will be ©gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, (D)as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;33and He will put the sheep (E)on His right, and the goats (F)on the left.
34″Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, (G)inherit the kingdom prepared for you (H)from the foundation of the world.
35'For (I)I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; (J)I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36(K)naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you (L)visited Me; (M)I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37″Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40″(N)The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, (O)to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41″Then He will also say to those on His left, '(P)Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the (Q)eternal fire which has been prepared for ®the devil and his angels;
42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44″Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45″Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46″These will go away into (S)eternal punishment, but the righteous into (T)eternal life.”
Thank you Nick. I had forgotten that part. Thank you for refreshing my memory.
Now, this is after the 1000 reign of Jesus and the saints on earth?
1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
If you notice this verse, it says that God will brith with him those who sleep. It is the souls those who's bodies sleep in the grave.
Also, the most important thing I would like to mention is that it says in scripture that one must confess with his mouth unto salvation. Those who died prior to the time of Jesus who believed unto righteousness, could not make confession with their mouth while alive, because Christ had not yet defeated death. So when they died, they were still held under the bondage of death. They could not make confession with their mouths, for the event of Christ's death and resurrection had not taken place yet. It was not till Jesus died without sin, that he defeated death, and went and preached to the captive souls being held in death. It was then they made confession with their mouths unto salvation. This was the place referred to by our Lord as the bosom of Abraham.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Proof that the soul can speak and has a mouth can be found in 1 Samuel 28.
Hi H,
You say“It is the souls those who's bodies sleep in the grave.”
Bodies rot and return to dust.
“Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust though shalt return”
Samuel was sleeping in the earth and when he was raised it was not a body that was seen but his soul being.
Paul was anxious to shed his weak tent and be with the Lord.
Those in the first resurrection arise in a new body.
Hi,
Acts 2:27
BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.Acts 2:31
he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.Revelation 1:18
and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
Matthew 16:19
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”So hades did not hold Jesus nor can hold us.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2007,19:52) ps They seem rather to be martyrs only.
The Altar is heaven and the earth according to many early Christians. However, just as in the Book of Enoch many believed that the martyrs were seperated from the non-martyr dead in some capacity. In some kind of greater glory.The dead in Christ are those from before
those awaiting his coming who saw the dust without promiseWe shall never be dead in Christ
never never never
for we are alive in Christ for ever
Don’t live under the old covenant of promise,
This is the cause of the setting up of another Christ to returnHe has done his work on earth
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