The cross&#8230;.not the correct symbol for adoration

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 04 2010,17:27)

You try to make a big thing out of offering your book for free; who wants it?
I had my book published the only way I knew, self publisher; little did I understand what they are. I have to by ten copies to get the price down to $15.00, I offered you that price, I don't think that is considered making money; that is referring to my next remark.

Georg

Hi Georg,

Do You want to know haw many people I have given the free e-book to?

How many people have bought your book?

Ed J

February 5, 2010 at 1:32 am#175784

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 04 2010,17:27)

Now, before I put down my next remark that you quoted let me just say this; I meant, and I still do mean every word I said there,
but then I want you to look at what I ask “you”, and then point me back to were you answered those questions since I must have mist that.

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Quote (banana @ Dec. 17 2009,07:34)
Ed
Yes I got your email, after installing the Adobe Reader, I was able to read your book.
I read for about 15 minutes, then my eyes got blurry from all the numbers.
So let me ask this, in plain English, and without any numbers, what do you believe?
Is God one, two or three? Is Jesus equal to the Father or not?
When Jesus was here on earth, was flesh, spirit, or both?
You know, just a few questions to start with.

Georg
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I guess you didn't figure this post would bite you in the but either, did you?
You see how quick you are to accuse me of something which in fact you're doing? Not only that, now you claim I do it to others, you need a bigger sheep skin, you have out grown this one, your true colors are showing.
1) You can still answer those questions, “I am” still waiting.

Georg

Hi Georg,

1) Those answers are in the book; Read it!

Are you demanding me to personally explain something you you have no intention of reading?
Is your intention for me to personally work to present the information in the book to you on your terms?
If I was to comply to such a request, would you NOT just accuse me of being wrong after all my efforts?
This is “Truth”, something you seem to have trouble swallowing. The use of satan's 'title'(i am) in your demand is PROOF of my words!

If you REALLY want those answers, read the book.

Ed J

February 5, 2010 at 1:35 am#175786

seekingtruth

Participant

I think Georg deserves an atta-boy for putting his money down to further truth by providing his insights to others or if nothing else to provoke someone to search to prove him wrong. I applaud his efforts, it is not a money making venture the best he can do is contain his costs. However I do not have a problem with making money as the scriptures say you have that right although I believe there is a special blessing to those who spread the gospel on their own nickel, I have not read his book but I assume from his posts here it would not be far from the truth, publishing your own book is certainly more than many of us do. Thanks Georg

My opinion, Wm

February 5, 2010 at 1:45 am#175789

Participant

Thank you William, I do appreciate that.
I know the Bible says, freely you have received, freely therefore give; that is what I try to do on this forum.

Georg

February 15, 2010 at 2:51 pm#178017

Franky T

Participant

Hello. there, fellow christian brothers and sisters! Well, I'm going to have to agree with you, terraricca, after all wouldn't be a little akwared for a believer to be wearing an electric chair on your necklace if Jesus happened to have died in the 21 century? Or hey, I know, how about we all go around sporting an I.V.(in case your not catching it, to represent lethal injection)??? what? I bet it would catch on if you seen the pope wearing one! Just kidding if your reading this too, Pope!

February 17, 2010 at 6:08 am#178550

david

Participant

Quote (Franky T @ Feb. 16 2010,01:51)

I know if my brother died from a stabbing in an attempt to save my life, I'd make a replica of the knife and hang it around my neck. Sometimes, I'd kiss it. Wait! Does that make any sense?

Nope!

March 3, 2010 at 6:28 am#181655

Participant

Exactly right, david.

Georg

March 3, 2010 at 9:43 pm#181729

Participant

You are thinking about the cross as if that was the weapon. I think of the cross as if that was the altar that held the final and perfect sacrifice. If you detest the cross, maybe you are looking at the malice and wickedness of the crucifixion instead of the love and sincerity of the truth that what happened on the cross was a sacrifice. So, one perspective of the cross we can focus on malice and wickedness and another perspective of the cross, we can focus on the love of the sacrifice.

I do think that when someone thinks highly of the cross and even wears it as a reminder looks at the love of the sacrifice instead of the wickedness of the crucifixion. There are always two ways to look at things.

Do a study of what God has in the holy of holies and you will find an altar. Do a study about what happened on an altar and that the sacrifice was a pleasing aroma to the Lord.

Can anyone find what God's perspective was regarding an altar on which a sacrifice was given Him as an act of worship? I would guess that it is not the same as many here consider the altar of the cross.

1 Cor 5:7-8
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
NASU
The people that wear a cross just might be celebrating something that is pleasing to the Lord.

My opinion,
Kathi

March 3, 2010 at 10:40 pm#181746

Participant

Kathi! Do you even know how that cross was used in Ancient History? If the cross becomes an object of worship which in the Catholic Church it is, it is against God's commandment. Someone told me once that She needed the Cross in order to pray to God. Also a Catholic Priest who was a friend of mine, told me that he needs the cross to remind him of Jesus. All very wrong. In Spirit and in Truth you shall worship Me.
You know if a person even believes in the trinity what does Scripture tell you. And most that do wear a cross around their neck, or on the Wall in their Home, believe in the trinity doctrine.
Math. 15:9 “In vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.”
God has opened our minds and we should at least try to convince others of that truth. But I have to say also with some, God has to open their minds.
Was the cross not the weapon that killed our Savior? It was all so cruel. Even when we belonged to the Catholic Church I don't remember ever wearing a cross around my neck, even though we had it hanging on our Bedroom wall….That is a lifetime ago….
Peace and Love Irene

March 3, 2010 at 10:47 pm#181749

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2010,12:31)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 04 2010,17:27)

Georg

Hi Georg,

Do You want to know haw many people I have given the free e-book to?

How many people have bought your book?

Ed J

Ed! Go and pad yourself on your shoulder…You did so good…you are so great…
Give me a break…
Irene

March 3, 2010 at 10:57 pm#181751

Participant

Irene,
The cross isn't anymore a weapon than an altar is. The weapons were the nails, the hammers, the whips, and the people that used them were bad. I don't see anyone wearing the nails, hammers or whips around their neck in reference to Jesus' death. The cross was not the weapon.

If someone got stabbed to death while tied to their chair, is the chair the weapon?? NO!! The chair is just a chair. Now if someone picked up a chair and beat someone over the head with the chair, then the chair is the weapon. Do you see the difference?

The cross was not the weapon. Christ was not beaten with a cross. He was beaten while carrying a cross and while hung on a cross and especially before He saw a cross but the cross was not the weapon.

An altar is not a weapon either. The altar that Solomon had in the temple was covered with bronze…it was a special piece of furniture. On that altar killing took place, yet it was highly decorated.

I have told you over and over that I don't think anyone should worship the cross or any altar but I also don't think anyone should detest the cross or an altar of the Lord's.

Granted some altars are for idol worship, satan worship, etc. and that we should hate and detest.

Love,
Kathi

March 3, 2010 at 11:31 pm#181755

Participant

Kathi

(((Do a study of what God has in the holy of holies and you will find an altar. Do a study about what happened on an altar and that the sacrifice was a pleasing aroma to the Lord.)))

Show me a Jew that has a mini altar hanging around their neck.
The cross is the “MARK” of the beast/Rome.

Georg

March 4, 2010 at 2:02 am#181786

Participant

Georg,
Read this:

Quote

Josh 22:21-29
21 Then the sons of Reuben and the sons of Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh answered and spoke to the heads of the families of Israel.
22 “The Mighty One, God, the Lord, the Mighty One, God, the Lord! He knows, and may Israel itself know. If it was in rebellion, or if in an unfaithful act against the Lord do not save us this day!
23 “If we have built us an altar to turn away from following the Lord, or if to offer a burnt offering or grain offering on it, or if to offer sacrifices of peace offerings on it, may the Lord Himself require it.
24 “But truly we have done this out of concern, for a reason, saying, 'In time to come your sons may say to our sons, “What have you to do with the Lord, the God of Israel?
25 “For the Lord has made the Jordan a border between us and you, you sons of Reuben and sons of Gad; you have no portion in the Lord.” So your sons may make our sons stop fearing the Lord.'
26 “Therefore we said, 'Let us build an altar, not for burnt offering or for sacrifice;
27 rather it shall be a witness between us and you and between our generations after us, that we are to perform the service of the Lord before Him with our burnt offerings, and with our sacrifices and with our peace offerings, so that your sons will not say to our sons in time to come, “You have no portion in the Lord.”'
28 “Therefore we said, 'It shall also come about if they say this to us or to our generations in time to come, then we shall say, “See the copy of the altar of the Lord which our fathers made, not for burnt offering or for sacrifice; rather it is a witness between us and you.”'
29 “Far be it from us that we should rebel against the Lord and turn away from following the Lord this day, by building an altar for burnt offering, for grain offering or for sacrifice, besides the altar of the Lord our God which is before His tabernacle.”
NASU

This tells about an altar being built as a copy of the altar of the Lord at Shiloh. It's purpose was to be a witness to future generations that the altar of God is part of their history and to be honored.

People use the cross for their witness to others that the altar which the Lord was sacrificed on is an important part of their history and a symbol of connection with other believers.

When I go to a museum and look at the portraits of people that have lived hundreds of years ago and I see a cross around their neck, there is a connection. Of course, the cross has been mishandled but the Lord knows the hearts and intentions.

I disagree with you that the cross is the mark of the beast. Satan worshippers use an upside down cross and that is of course awful.

Kathi

March 4, 2010 at 4:22 pm#181842

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 04 2010,13:02)

Georg,
Read this:

Quote

People use the cross for their witness to others that the altar which the Lord was sacrificed on is an important part of their history and a symbol of connection with other believers.

I disagree with you that the cross is the mark of the beast. Satan worshippers use an upside down cross and that is of course awful.

Kathi

Kathi! The Altar was not used to hang a Human Being, while the cross killed our Savior. It is the instrument for that purpose in those days like the Electric Chair is today. Remember that two Thief's were next to Christ. One repented and Jesus told Him that He would be in Paradise, and the other did not. Why would anyone want to put an instrument of torture and death around their necks…It is so sad to me that some will do so. Not only sad, but I just can't understand why? Ask yourself what purpose it is to do so? Is it because you want to be reminded of Jesus? If that is the case then that makes it idolatry. In Spirit and in truth we shall worship God, and not with an object of torture. And BTW some do like I mentioned before….
Irene

March 4, 2010 at 8:44 pm#181874

Participant

Irene,
Do you see anywhere in scripture that God is against a cross? Maybe you can show me.

Many people hang a cross around their neck to show a witness to their faith…that is not idolatry, it is a witness.

March 5, 2010 at 11:03 pm#182059

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2010,07:44)

Irene,
Do you see anywhere in scripture that God is against a cross? Maybe you can show me.

Many people hang a cross around their neck to show a witness to their faith…that is not idolatry, it is a witness.

Hi Lightenup,

I can show you many verses, starting with this one…
Read Zech.5:1-4.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 5, 2010 at 11:17 pm#182061

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2010,18:03)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2010,07:44)

Irene,
Do you see anywhere in scripture that God is against a cross? Maybe you can show me.

Many people hang a cross around their neck to show a witness to their faith…that is not idolatry, it is a witness.

Hi Lightenup,

I can show you many verses, starting with this one…
Read Zech.5:1-4.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ,
There is no mention of a cross here:

Zech 5:1 Then I turned to look, and there was a flying scroll! 5:2 Someone asked me, “What do you see?” I replied, “I see a flying scroll thirty feet long and fifteen feet wide.” 1 5:3 The speaker went on to say, “This is a curse 2 traveling across the whole earth. For example, according to the curse whoever steals 3 will be removed from the community; or on the other hand (according to the curse) whoever swears falsely will suffer the same fate.” 5:4 “I will send it out,” says the Lord who rules over all, “and it will enter the house of the thief and of the person who swears falsely in my name. It will land in the middle of his house and destroy both timber and stones.”

March 6, 2010 at 12:11 am#182067