- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Adam,
About the preexistence of the Messiah. I believe it was in the plan of our ABBA that Yahushua would be born in the Appointed Place at the Appointed Time according to Torah. Because YHWH ELohim keeps HIs promises we can have faith, or believe that this one would come so much so that we could say it has already be done. Abraham knew that He could believe the promise YHWH ELohim gave him, and i believe that the Messiah will come again to reign as King, therefore the kingdom of heaven does exist and the Messiah is King in that kingdom which will come at YHWH's Appointed Time. So i am like Abraham who is looking forward to that place and i depend on that promise. Therefore i know it, just as if i have already seen it with my own yes. That is how much i trust the Word and the promise of the covenant given thousands of years ago.About the death of Yahushua Messiah…
Yahushua said He came only for the Lost Sheep of the ouse of Yisra'el. Looking at the TeNaK i saw how Yisra'el was divided, and how the Northern kingdom was “divorced” from the covenant because they broke it, they did not keep their covenant vows they made at Mt. Siani.YHWH gave laws for “the adulterous bride.” This includes His bride, His assembly who “whored after the mighty ones of the gentiles/nations/goyim.
According to Torah the adulterous bride could NEVER return to her “first love” after she had been with another, after her separation from her first love.
The only way to end that “original covenant” is for the “death of the covenanted one.”
15 And because of this He is the Mediator of a renewed covenant, so that, death having taken place for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, those who are called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, it is necessary for the death of the covenanted one to be established. 17 For a covenant over those dead is firm, since it is never valid while the covenanted one is living. 18 Therefore not even the first [covenant] was instituted without blood. 19 For when, according to Torah, every command had been spoken by Mosheh to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which Elohim commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled with blood both the Tent and all the vessels of the service. 22 And, according to the Torah, almost all is cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23 It was necessary, then, that the copies of the heavenly ones should be cleansed with these, but the heavenly ones themselves with better slaughter [offerings] than these.So all this is about “dying to self” and “returning in repentance” and the “grace and mercy” offered to those who believe the Word was confirmed by the life and death and assention of Yahushua Messiah, for all thos propecies are and will be fulfilled (given full meaning) through the belief and knowledge of the Father and the Son, not as two who are equal, but as two who proove one thing, that YHWH is ELohim, and His Word is truth, and He is an ELohim trustworthy of our esteem.
Without the Messiah's death “according to the Torah of Passover and other spring Feast requirements,” there can be no proof and therefore no Elohim, and we could all be our own elohim, deciding right from wrong and becoming as powerful as possible with no thought or care for others but ourselves. We would believe anything any heathen false priest would teach us as long as it pleased our flesh!
The truth is we are supposed to follow the Messiah's example to the death if need be, loving others and working to share truth with whomever will listen, for the truth does set us free, and it is not the keeping of the commands, and walking in Torah that brings death, BUT sin alone is separation from a Father Who will not dwell in an unclean place which was not set-apert to Him.
Yahushua Messiah “took the curse of the adulterous bride, Yisra'el” and when we believe that we can see that we too need to die to the selfish lusts of this world, be immersed in clean flowing water, which represents a watery grave, and we become born “renewed creatures” who have made our vows to keep that covenant and allow YAH's Qadosh Ruach (Set-apart Spirit) to write it on our hearts so that we will be able to “walk in Torah” which was His will from the beginning.
The Torah is not bad. The Torah is good, it is a light, it is a love letter and it is a covenant between YHWH ELohim and His children. His Son died because the rest of us were selfish and hateful, He loved us none-the-less to set an example. His shed blood was necessary, and His blood is the covering, and when we are under it, we are under favor.
Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 09 2010,10:18) Adam,
About the preexistence of the Messiah. I believe it was in the plan of our ABBA that Yahushua would be born in the Appointed Place at the Appointed Time according to Torah. Because YHWH ELohim keeps HIs promises we can have faith, or believe that this one would come so much so that we could say it has already be done. Abraham knew that He could believe the promise YHWH ELohim gave him, and i believe that the Messiah will come again to reign as King, therefore the kingdom of heaven does exist and the Messiah is King in that kingdom which will come at YHWH's Appointed Time. So i am like Abraham who is looking forward to that place and i depend on that promise. Therefore i know it, just as if i have already seen it with my own yes. That is how much i trust the Word and the promise of the covenant given thousands of years ago.About the death of Yahushua Messiah…
Yahushua said He came only for the Lost Sheep of the ouse of Yisra'el. Looking at the TeNaK i saw how Yisra'el was divided, and how the Northern kingdom was “divorced” from the covenant because they broke it, they did not keep their covenant vows they made at Mt. Siani.YHWH gave laws for “the adulterous bride.” This includes His bride, His assembly who “whored after the mighty ones of the gentiles/nations/goyim.
According to Torah the adulterous bride could NEVER return to her “first love” after she had been with another, after her separation from her first love.
The only way to end that “original covenant” is for the “death of the covenanted one.”
15 And because of this He is the Mediator of a renewed covenant, so that, death having taken place for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, those who are called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, it is necessary for the death of the covenanted one to be established. 17 For a covenant over those dead is firm, since it is never valid while the covenanted one is living. 18 Therefore not even the first [covenant] was instituted without blood. 19 For when, according to Torah, every command had been spoken by Mosheh to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which Elohim commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled with blood both the Tent and all the vessels of the service. 22 And, according to the Torah, almost all is cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23 It was necessary, then, that the copies of the heavenly ones should be cleansed with these, but the heavenly ones themselves with better slaughter [offerings] than these.So all this is about “dying to self” and “returning in repentance” and the “grace and mercy” offered to those who believe the Word was confirmed by the life and death and assention of Yahushua Messiah, for all thos propecies are and will be fulfilled (given full meaning) through the belief and knowledge of the Father and the Son, not as two who are equal, but as two who proove one thing, that YHWH is ELohim, and His Word is truth, and He is an ELohim trustworthy of our esteem.
Without the Messiah's death “according to the Torah of Passover and other spring Feast requirements,” there can be no proof and therefore no Elohim, and we could all be our own elohim, deciding right from wrong and becoming as powerful as possible with no thought or care for others but ourselves. We would believe anything any heathen false priest would teach us as long as it pleased our flesh!
The truth is we are supposed to follow the Messiah's example to the death if need be, loving others and working to share truth with whomever will listen, for the truth does set us free, and it is not the keeping of the commands, and walking in Torah that brings death, BUT sin alone is separation from a Father Who will not dwell in an unclean place which was not set-apert to Him.
Yahushua Messiah “took the curse of the adulterous bride, Yisra'el” and when we believe that we can see that we too need to die to the selfish lusts of this world, be immersed in clean flowing water, which represents a watery grave, and we become born “renewed creatures” who have made our vows to keep that covenant and allow YAH's Qadosh Ruach (Set-apart Spirit) to write it on our hearts so that we will be able to “walk in Torah” which was His will from the beginning.
The Torah is not bad. The Torah is good, it is a light, it is a love letter and it is a covenant between YHWH ELohim and His children. His Son died because the rest of us were selfish and hateful, He loved us none-the-less to set an example. His shed blood was necessary, and His blood is the covering, and when we are under it, we are under favor.
Hi Laurel,
Thanks for your good response on my queries to you. I agree with you on non-literal preexistence of Messiah in the purpose and plan of God even before he created this world. But I can't agree with you on Christian New Covenant.First of all I don't agree with you on blaming any Christian sect for not following TANAK. The reason is very simple the Christian scriptures especially the N.T deviated from the true religion of Yahweh Elohim which had caused havoc among Christian groups. For example let me take your example of human sacrifice of Jesus for establishment of New Covenant as quoted by you from Heb 9; No where in the Hebrew scriptures it is told that the Covenant maker that is God Himself should die to establish it. The writer of Hebrews alleges that Jesus was the covenant maker/mediator who died to establish the so called 'Will” of New Covenant. This is what you quoted above
“The only way to end that “original covenant” is for the “death of the covenanted one.”
This is nothing but blunder of Christian writers who made the doctrine of Trinity. The writer of Hebrew is also a Trinitarian if you see his quotes on Jesus as God like Heb 1:
“2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.”
8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.10 He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord (God), you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”What more evidence you need to reject this follower of Paul who was also a Trinitarian. I don't agree with such biased doctrines of N.T.
No where in the O.T it is said that human sacrifice is necessary for sin redemption where only God allowed animal sacrifices along with other non-blood offerings for sin atonement. It is purely the invention of Christian writers of N.T to fit Jesus' political death as sacrifice for sin atonement. I don't agree with such logics.
I am sorry to say that.
Peace to you
AdamAdam,
Didnt God command Abraham to scrafice his Son? yet God provided a lamb for the scrafice instead.
This is the same with Jesus.
Hi Laurel,
This is the allegation on the writer of Hebrews;I noticed the difference between Jer. 32:31 and Heb. 8:9. (Bible verses are from Young’s Literal Translation.)
Not like the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day of My laying hold on their hand, To bring them out of the land of Egypt, In that they made void My covenant, And I ruled over them — an affirmation of Jehovah. Jer 31:32 (YLT)
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day of My taking [them] by their hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt — because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them, saith the Lord, — Heb 8:9 (YLT)
In J31:32b we read: “In that they made void My covenant, And I ruled over them”, but in H8:9b the text reads: “because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them”. First notice the differences in 32b, it says “they [the Jews] made void My covenant” while in 9b, it says: “because they did not remain in My covenant”. This is significant from a theological and doctrinal standpoint. If the Jews voided the covenant as in Jeremiah, then there is no offense against the deity, for the covenant is simply voided. Distinctively different is Hebrews, where “they [the Jews] did not remain in My covenant” means the Jews were liable and culpable for offense against the deity since the covenant was still in effect.
Secondly, in Jer. 31:32b the text says: “…And I ruled over them…”, but Heb. 8:9b reads as: “…and I did not regard them…”. In the former, Yahweh is still sovereign and the Jews are still his people; however, in the later, Yahweh has abandoned the Jews by no longer regarding them. It appears the Hebraic author cooked the books to make a foundation of lies upon which to build Christianity’s doctrine that its believers are the replacements for the Jews as the chosen people.
The author of Hebrews purposefully and knowingly changed the text of Jeremiah 31:32 in order to make these subtle distinctions.
ADAM. Ypu make it sound “as if” there are two Torah's, two covenants, and two Elohim. Therefore i can not midrash with you, as it would be pointless, because you can't see what i see.
Here is some advise. Set your heart on the “written Torah given by Mosheh” then “listen to the man Yahushua the Messiah's words.”
FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE! This is the ROCK, and if you build your house any other way, it will be washed away by high wind, and roaring waves.
I'd like you to PM me privately if you wish to continue. TODA.
LaurelAdam,
I went to the trouble of explaining that it is the “same covenant” and how Yisra'el could get back to it,, through the Messiah, and this hold true when we look at the srecords of Yahushua the Son of Nun, and with every generation that re-entered the covenant through the process of keeping the Spring Feasts which were a shadow picture of Spiritual things, and shalom.Instead of hearing those truths, you rejected them, embrasing the will of MEN, and missed the whole point of the Hebrews which i quoted to proove that there is ONLY ONE COVENANT. You have twisted “as if” to say there are two covenants. See i can not open your eyes, you need to pray about this. Therefore i will leave you and you alone with this blessing.
YHWH bless you and keep you. May you esteem YHWH to His face, YHWH lift up His countenance upon you that He bless you with perfect understanding and shalom. AMEN AMEN
Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 10 2010,01:25) Adam,
I went to the trouble of explaining that it is the “same covenant” and how Yisra'el could get back to it,, through the Messiah, and this hold true when we look at the srecords of Yahushua the Son of Nun, and with every generation that re-entered the covenant through the process of keeping the Spring Feasts which were a shadow picture of Spiritual things, and shalom.Instead of hearing those truths, you rejected them, embrasing the will of MEN, and missed the whole point of the Hebrews which i quoted to proove that there is ONLY ONE COVENANT. You have twisted “as if” to say there are two covenants. See i can not open your eyes, you need to pray about this. Therefore i will leave you and you alone with this blessing.
YHWH bless you and keep you. May you esteem YHWH to His face, YHWH lift up His countenance upon you that He bless you with perfect understanding and shalom. AMEN AMEN
Hi Laurel,
Thanks for your concern on me as your brother. I am sorry for upsetting you. I don't see any thing new in your approach. It is just like another Unitarian Christian statement of faith which I have already gone through in this forum from brothers Kerwin and Gene. There are not two New covenants or two Yahweh Elohim but only the subtle interpretation of Christian writers in the N.T which caused havoc among Christian churches and denominations. I don't blame them for such strange ideas as they draw all these doctrines from the same source of fabricated scriptures.I am thankful to you for your concern and love towards me.
I wish the same blessing to you from one and only Yahweh Elohim who alone created this universe. I still await the coming of true Messiah foretold in the Hebrew scriptures.Shalom
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Dec. 10 2010,14:14) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 10 2010,01:25) Adam,
I went to the trouble of explaining that it is the “same covenant” and how Yisra'el could get back to it,, through the Messiah, and this hold true when we look at the srecords of Yahushua the Son of Nun, and with every generation that re-entered the covenant through the process of keeping the Spring Feasts which were a shadow picture of Spiritual things, and shalom.Instead of hearing those truths, you rejected them, embrasing the will of MEN, and missed the whole point of the Hebrews which i quoted to proove that there is ONLY ONE COVENANT. You have twisted “as if” to say there are two covenants. See i can not open your eyes, you need to pray about this. Therefore i will leave you and you alone with this blessing.
YHWH bless you and keep you. May you esteem YHWH to His face, YHWH lift up His countenance upon you that He bless you with perfect understanding and shalom. AMEN AMEN
Hi Laurel,
Thanks for your concern on me as your brother. I am sorry for upsetting you. I don't see any thing new in your approach. It is just like another Unitarian Christian statement of faith which I have already gone through in this forum from brothers Kerwin and Gene. There are not two New covenants or two Yahweh Elohim but only the subtle interpretation of Christian writers in the N.T which caused havoc among Christian churches and denominations. I don't blame them for such strange ideas as they draw all these doctrines from the same source of fabricated scriptures.I am thankful to you for your concern and love towards me.
I wish the same blessing to you from one and only Yahweh Elohim who created alone this universe. I still await the coming of true Messiah foretold in the Hebrew scriptures.Shalom
Adam
To my own shame i must be horrible at explaining my belief. Unitarianisim is NOT what i believe, as that would be claiming that Yahushua Messiah is YHWH ELohim and I DO NOT believe that.No one is equal to Yahuweh ELohim, no one! Also YHWH is a Spirit being, and Yahushua Messiah was flesh.
Big difference. The way i see it, there is no difference between Trinitarian or Unitarin beliefs, both are wrong.
Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 10 2010,14:31) Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 10 2010,14:14) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 10 2010,01:25) Adam,
I went to the trouble of explaining that it is the “same covenant” and how Yisra'el could get back to it,, through the Messiah, and this hold true when we look at the srecords of Yahushua the Son of Nun, and with every generation that re-entered the covenant through the process of keeping the Spring Feasts which were a shadow picture of Spiritual things, and shalom.Instead of hearing those truths, you rejected them, embrasing the will of MEN, and missed the whole point of the Hebrews which i quoted to proove that there is ONLY ONE COVENANT. You have twisted “as if” to say there are two covenants. See i can not open your eyes, you need to pray about this. Therefore i will leave you and you alone with this blessing.
YHWH bless you and keep you. May you esteem YHWH to His face, YHWH lift up His countenance upon you that He bless you with perfect understanding and shalom. AMEN AMEN
Hi Laurel,
Thanks for your concern on me as your brother. I am sorry for upsetting you. I don't see any thing new in your approach. It is just like another Unitarian Christian statement of faith which I have already gone through in this forum from brothers Kerwin and Gene. There are not two New covenants or two Yahweh Elohim but only the subtle interpretation of Christian writers in the N.T which caused havoc among Christian churches and denominations. I don't blame them for such strange ideas as they draw all these doctrines from the same source of fabricated scriptures.I am thankful to you for your concern and love towards me.
I wish the same blessing to you from one and only Yahweh Elohim who created alone this universe. I still await the coming of true Messiah foretold in the Hebrew scriptures.Shalom
Adam
To my own shame i must be horrible at explaining my belief. Unitarianisim is NOT what i believe, as that would be claiming that Yahushua Messiah is YHWH ELohim and I DO NOT believe that.No one is equal to Yahuweh ELohim, no one! Also YHWH is a Spirit being, and Yahushua Messiah was flesh.
Big difference. The way i see it, there is no difference between Trinitarian or Unitarin beliefs, both are wrong.
You are wrong on Unitarians they don't believe Jesus as Yahweh Elohim but as human being created in the womb of Mary with no literal preexistence. Here is one of such statement of faith:Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 10 2010,14:57) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 10 2010,14:31) Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 10 2010,14:14) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 10 2010,01:25) Adam,
I went to the trouble of explaining that it is the “same covenant” and how Yisra'el could get back to it,, through the Messiah, and this hold true when we look at the srecords of Yahushua the Son of Nun, and with every generation that re-entered the covenant through the process of keeping the Spring Feasts which were a shadow picture of Spiritual things, and shalom.Instead of hearing those truths, you rejected them, embrasing the will of MEN, and missed the whole point of the Hebrews which i quoted to proove that there is ONLY ONE COVENANT. You have twisted “as if” to say there are two covenants. See i can not open your eyes, you need to pray about this. Therefore i will leave you and you alone with this blessing.
YHWH bless you and keep you. May you esteem YHWH to His face, YHWH lift up His countenance upon you that He bless you with perfect understanding and shalom. AMEN AMEN
Hi Laurel,
Thanks for your concern on me as your brother. I am sorry for upsetting you. I don't see any thing new in your approach. It is just like another Unitarian Christian statement of faith which I have already gone through in this forum from brothers Kerwin and Gene. There are not two New covenants or two Yahweh Elohim but only the subtle interpretation of Christian writers in the N.T which caused havoc among Christian churches and denominations. I don't blame them for such strange ideas as they draw all these doctrines from the same source of fabricated scriptures.I am thankful to you for your concern and love towards me.
I wish the same blessing to you from one and only Yahweh Elohim who created alone this universe. I still await the coming of true Messiah foretold in the Hebrew scriptures.Shalom
Adam
To my own shame i must be horrible at explaining my belief. Unitarianisim is NOT what i believe, as that would be claiming that Yahushua Messiah is YHWH ELohim and I DO NOT believe that.No one is equal to Yahuweh ELohim, no one! Also YHWH is a Spirit being, and Yahushua Messiah was flesh.
Big difference. The way i see it, there is no difference between Trinitarian or Unitarin beliefs, both are wrong.
You are wrong on Unitarians they don't believe Jesus as Yahweh Elohim but as human being created in the womb of Mary with no literal preexistence. Here is one of such statement of faith:
There must be more than one sect of Unitarian believing people because the ones i know say that Yahuhsua is Yahuweh.good grief!
Too much confusion in the religions of the world.
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 01 2010,16:08) Hi Irene and all, Can anyone prove with scripture that the Holy Spirit isnt a seperate being ?
It says…
“I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you — to the age;” John 14:16
It says ANOTHER COMFORTER and HE will remain.
I could find more similar scripture.
Look at these scriptures,Paul always gives thanks to the Father.
Rom. 1:8 “First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all…”
1 Cor. 1:4 “I thank my God always on your behalf…”
Phil. 1:3 “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you.”
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
1Thes. 1:2 “We give thanks to God always for you all…”My point is this; considering what the Holy Spirit does for us, would he not deserve some thanks too?
Now look at this scripture.2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If you were the Holy Spirit, would you not feel left out?
Think about it.
Georg
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
