- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi.
My Neighbours are Mormans. They are really nice. I have always had a curiosity about Mormanism, and am interested in finding out more about them, and their beliefs.
Mormanism is supposed to be a restoration of 1st century Christianity
From what I know, some thing's they believe in…
God and Christ have tangible bodies like us.
The Holy Spirit is an individual.
We are all spiritual children of God.
We all pre-existed as spirits before here.
We are all here to learn.
Marriage if sealed in a temple is eternal into the next life.
They baptise on behalf of the dead.
Satan and Jesus are brothers,And that's just some of it.
Some of their beliefs are really unusual. But even so there are alot of Mormans.This is their official site.
Mormanism – Godhead not Trinity
God the Heavenly Father
Unlike Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Christianity, Mormonism does not include belief in a Trinity, in which the one God consists of three persons. Instead, Mormons believe that the “Godhead” is made up of three distinct beings who are “one in purpose” but not in being.
Like most monotheistic religions, Mormons regard God as the all-powerful, all-good ruler of the universe who also loves and cares for humans. Mormonism is unique, however, in its belief that God has a physical body. This belief is based on several biblical passages – such as those in which Moses speaks to God “face to face” or Stephen sees Jesus standing at the right hand of God – as well as divine revelation to Joseph Smith. Mormons commonly refer to God the Father as “Heavenly Father,” because “he is the Father of our spirits.”
Jesus Christ
Mormon faith centers on Jesus Christ. Mormons hold many beliefs about Christ in common with Catholics and Protestants, such as Christ as Son of God, Christ as Savior of humanity, Christ's existence before his birth, Christ predicted by prophets before his birth, the Virgin Birth, the reality of the Crucifixion, and the bodily Resurrection of Christ.
However, Mormons do not agree with mainstream Christians that Jesus is the eternal Word of God or God himself. In Mormon belief, Jesus was a created spirit and “son of God” before being given a physical body, just like all humans. In the Mormon text “Book of Moses,” Satan and Jesus contend for the privilege of taking a body of flesh in order to become the redeemer, with Jesus winning the contest. The spirit of Jesus was then given a body through the Virgin Birth to Mary in Bethlehem.Holy Spirit
For Mormons, the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) is the third person of the Godhead whose special mission is to guide and teach, testify to God, and comfort and sanctify human souls. In these affirmations, Mormonism is in agreement with mainstream Christianity.
Mormonism departs from mainstream Christianity, however, in teaching that the Holy Spirit is a “one in purpose with the Father and the Son, but is a separate being” rather than an aspect of God or part of a Trinity.
Unlike God and Jesus, who have physical bodies, the Holy Spirit is pure spirit and has no body. Joseph Smith wrote that God revealed to him that “the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”
http://www.religionfacts.com/mormonism/beliefs/godhead_not_trinity.htm
Shimmmer, most Churches have in common that they all believe in the trinity doctrine….like the Mormons however there are Churches who do not. However that they believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate being, makes them almost like other Churches….The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, and not a separate being IMO….Irene
Hi Irene and all,
Can anyone prove with scripture that the Holy Spirit isnt a seperate being ?
It says…
“I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you — to the age;” John 14:16
It says ANOTHER COMFORTER and HE will remain.
I could find more similar scripture.
“I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you — to the age”. – John 14:16
“And the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you”. – John 14:26
'And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father — the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me”. -John 15:26
'But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you” John. – 16:7
Jesus asks the Father
The Father will give the Holy spirit in Jesus's name
He will remain to the age
He teaches all things.
He testifies of Jesus
Jesus says again of the comforter “I will send HIM to you”Hi Shimmer,
I bumped a post for you to look at and think about as you ponder the question about the Holy Spirit being a separate person.
You can find it here:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….y275286Recently YHWH ELohim has blessed me with the company of Mormons.
For the past few weeks i have invited them into my home for the purpose of learning what they believe, and my hope is that they will also seek to learn my beliefs. My hope is that we can find some common ground in order that we may all come to the same belief.So far i have learned that the Mormons today do not follow the words of their own prophets. They are in a state of dillusion when it comes to knowing YHWH Elohim who they believe is seprate from His Ruach Qodesh, His Spirit.
I was given the Book of Mormon and i have been examining it from the perspective of a learned talmud, or in other words, a taught one of the Messiah Yahushua. Because my belief is founded ONLY on Him, i can see things about the Mormons.
The three who come here are very polite, very kind, and very thoughtful towards me. They seem to care about my salvation somewhat, but mostly they wish that i would convert and be baptized to their religion.
As a group of individuals coming together to find common ground, we have not had any strong words towards one another, but as time goes by, i see that will be inevitable. One of them, their elder, will come down on me eventually and then i will have shown them the true Messiah, who they can see with their eyes, but do not know intimately as of yet.
It is not my hope that i would change them, but i do hope to shine the light of Yahushua Messiah in my house, so that they can see for themselves and know Him for themselves.
No religions on the planet are pure and set-apart to YHWH ELohim. His assembly is the one made without hands.
Hi Laural.
The neighbors I have are new neighbors, it's me who is new in the neighborhood. They come over to see me, we talk alot….the husband is sick and receiving treatment for a serious condition, even so, he smiles and you wouldn't know. So as time went on I finally found out just the other day they are Mormons, which is funny because I have never had Mormon neighbors before and I have prayed a few times and asked about Mormonism.
When I prayed and asked years ago I woke to find my young son had placed a flower, a letter, and the book of Mormon on the table for me, He had fished out the book from amongst many others.
I was in a bad relationship at the time since when I was young and I learnt that in Mormonism marriage is forever and into the next life where you continue to have spirit children…I thought 'No way'! and it put me off them, despite what had happened. Eternal Marriage ? No thank you ! This is bad enough !
But I have since discovered that this is not true. It's only if you have a temple Marriage that it's eternal like that. OK. So now my previous relationship has ended. So now I'm not so bad with that. Not all relationship's are bad and true love can exist.
There are some things in Mormonism, which seem strange and don't seem scriptural, such as God having a body and being just like us….etc.
There are beliefs they also have which I do believe or I could believe. I am always open to learn.
So this is something I will continue to ponder.
But even so, learning of what they believe is helpful, there are many Mormons ! And as you say Laural with the people you know you are learning too, and hoping to help them….thats good.
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 02 2010,06:11) Hi Laural. The neighbors I have are new neighbors, it's me who is new in the neighborhood. They come over to see me, we talk alot….the husband is sick and receiving treatment for a serious condition, even so, he smiles and you wouldn't know. So as time went on I finally found out just the other day they are Mormons, which is funny because I have never had Mormon neighbors before and I have prayed a few times and asked about Mormonism.
When I prayed and asked years ago I woke to find my young son had placed a flower, a letter, and the book of Mormon on the table for me, He had fished out the book from amongst many others.
I was in a bad relationship at the time since when I was young and I learnt that in Mormonism marriage is forever and into the next life where you continue to have spirit children…I thought 'No way'! and it put me off them, despite what had happened. Eternal Marriage ? No thank you ! This is bad enough !
But I have since discovered that this is not true. It's only if you have a temple Marriage that it's eternal like that. OK. So now my previous relationship has ended. So now I'm not so bad with that. Not all relationship's are bad and true love can exist.
There are some things in Mormonism, which seem strange and don't seem scriptural, such as God having a body and being just like us….etc.
There are beliefs they also have which I do believe or I could believe. I am always open to learn.
So this is something I will continue to ponder.
But even so, learning of what they believe is helpful, there are many Mormons ! And as you say Laural with the people you know you are learning too, and hoping to help them….thats good.
I just learned today from an outside source that the Mormon's believe they can reach the status of god. The man on the radio who said this said that they believe that if je_us was flesh and god then they are supposed to follow him and be a god too.So my first question to the Mormon's when they come to visit again is: Do you believe that you can attain the status of a god?
I'll post their answer some time next week.
It is my view that ANY person or religion that teaches against the Torah commands beilieves they can be a god.
This is a pretty bold statement, since most of the world forsakes the Sabbaths, as well as most of the other commands that the REAL Elohim Yahuweh gave us to follow, the same commands that His Son kept.
Believing that the Messiah is god is the “stumbling block.” This belief ultimately leads a person to believe he/she can be god too, though most christians will reject this truth because they have to in order to maintain their false doctrines.
I can attest to the fact that Mormon's claim that j_sus is god, because their book tells it that way. Why is that different from any pagan religion where men can be gods and were worshipped as such?
Laurel,
It is interesting to have those types of conversations with the Mormons and it is good that you are getting more familiar with their doctrines. I wonder if the Mormons believe that Jesus BECAME a god/God or always was from the get go. I would assume that they think that they will BECOME a god and do not think of themselves as gods by birth or original nature. I believe that Jesus never became 'theos' but always was a 'theos' and that is the huge difference that cannot be acquired by any man. The two are incomparable and man cannot attain becoming a 'theos' by original nature, it would be an impossibility. Do you see that?
Blessings,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,12:30) Laurel,
It is interesting to have those types of conversations with the Mormons and it is good that you are getting more familiar with their doctrines. I wonder if the Mormons believe that Jesus BECAME a god/God or always was from the get go. I would assume that they think that they will BECOME a god and do not think of themselves as gods by birth or original nature. I believe that Jesus never became 'theos' but always was a 'theos' and that is the huge difference that cannot be acquired by any man. The two are incomparable and man cannot attain becoming a 'theos' by original nature, it would be an impossibility. Do you see that?
Blessings,
Kathi
It was HaSatan who said we could be like Elohim kowing good and evil.Well he was partly right. We do have a choice to choose good or evil, BUT
we can never be equal to Elohim, no man can, not even His Beloved Son.Beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 02 2010,12:25) So my first question to the Mormon's when they come to visit again is: Do you believe that you can attain the status of a god? I'll post their answer some time next week.
OK. Will wait to hear Laural.Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 01 2010,20:44) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,12:30) Laurel,
It is interesting to have those types of conversations with the Mormons and it is good that you are getting more familiar with their doctrines. I wonder if the Mormons believe that Jesus BECAME a god/God or always was from the get go. I would assume that they think that they will BECOME a god and do not think of themselves as gods by birth or original nature. I believe that Jesus never became 'theos' but always was a 'theos' and that is the huge difference that cannot be acquired by any man. The two are incomparable and man cannot attain becoming a 'theos' by original nature, it would be an impossibility. Do you see that?
Blessings,
Kathi
It was HaSatan who said we could be like Elohim kowing good and evil.Well he was partly right. We do have a choice to choose good or evil, BUT
we can never be equal to Elohim, no man can, not even His Beloved Son.Beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Is there anything in what I wrote to make it sound like the Son was exactly equal in every way to the Father?Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2010,06:28) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 01 2010,20:44) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,12:30) Laurel,
It is interesting to have those types of conversations with the Mormons and it is good that you are getting more familiar with their doctrines. I wonder if the Mormons believe that Jesus BECAME a god/God or always was from the get go. I would assume that they think that they will BECOME a god and do not think of themselves as gods by birth or original nature. I believe that Jesus never became 'theos' but always was a 'theos' and that is the huge difference that cannot be acquired by any man. The two are incomparable and man cannot attain becoming a 'theos' by original nature, it would be an impossibility. Do you see that?
Blessings,
Kathi
It was HaSatan who said we could be like Elohim kowing good and evil.Well he was partly right. We do have a choice to choose good or evil, BUT
we can never be equal to Elohim, no man can, not even His Beloved Son.Beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Is there anything in what I wrote to make it sound like the Son was exactly equal in every way to the Father?
To answer your question.
Yes. Ultimately there is only One Elohim and His Name is YHWH or Yahuweh or some call Jehovah or Yahovah.Scripture is the word of Yahuweh Elohim. In other words, YHWH spoke and His word was. YHWH is the origin of all things. Yahushua Messiah being a man is part of the creation of all things. My Father in heaven prepared for His Son to come into the world at His Appointed Place and His Appointed Time, before He created anything. There are shadow pictures of this Son in every Feast that YHWH commanded His children to observe. Passover and Unleavened Bread and Pentecost are one that Yahushua Messiah has already accomplised but there remains the Fall Feasts when the Messiah will come again as King and Judge. YHWH ELohim has put all these in His Son's hand to be accomplished.
Yahushua was flesh. His body now esteemed, He sits at the right hand of YHWH ELohim, though He and His Father are one, they are not the same person, for YHWH is a Spirit being, like the wind, we do not see where He comes from or where He goes, but His being is evident through His Word, and His Son. These are the two witnesses that teach us Who our heavenly Father is. Back in the days before the birth of the Messiah, the righteous believed on His promise, the promise of the coming of the Messiah, and i believe they even knew what His name was. King David knew of the Messiah, as well as Abraham and many other prophets of YHWH ELohim.
See, i do not believe in the man-made doctrine of trinitarianisim. Because of my belief i doubted if i was a Christian, since it seems to me that the definition of a Christian is one who believes in a trinity. So i asked the pastor and he said, NO, i do not have to believe the trinity doctrine to be a Christian, all i need to do is follow the Messiah. Therefore i still call myself a Christian, BUT there is so much false teaching in the Christian church today, i had to leave her in order to follow Yahushua Messiah.
The Messiah has taught me that He is not ELohim, but that YHWH is ELohim, and He worshipped YHWH. I believe John Chapter 17. Yahushua Messiah called me to follow Him and worship YHWH. The Messiah is my brother.
“In my opinion,” any person who says that je_us is g_d or that je_us is Creator is following the doctrines of HaSatan hopefully in ignorance.
Yahushua the Messiah said, “Forgive them Father for they do not know what they are doing.” So i must forgive your ignorance as well, lest i be judged and be found guilty, because i was once just like you in that i was decieved in many ways, except that i always knew there was only one ELohim, and that Yahushua the Messiah is not that One, but is the Beloved Son of Him who created all things.
Where ever there is transgression from the Torah, there will be separation from truth. If one only transgresses a little, over time will grow because sin begets sin, like the snowball effect. So it is very important that we do not run, when we are uncertain of a thing, but that we stop, wait, pray, and read the Word until YHWH ELohim sends confirmation to us.
See i do not believe on anything that can not be prooved. My belief is not blind. It seems to me that the church today teaches that we must believe in mysteries in order to be called believers, but i know that this is Babylon. My belief is founded on a rock, and that Rock is Torah, and Yahushua Messiah.[/B]
Laurel,
You are right that there is only one Elohim. That one Elohim has a Son just like Him and a Holy Spirit that proceeds forth from both of them. All together we see the fullness of Elohim.Some of the most learned believers realize how much more there is to know and humility will be one of their biggest assets. God can teach the teachable but the 'all knowing' man or woman, as they perceive themselves, cannot be taught anything new.
Blessings!
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 06 2010,12:41) Laurel,
You are right that there is only one Elohim. That one Elohim has a Son just like Him and a Holy Spirit that proceeds forth from both of them. All together we see the fullness of Elohim.Some of the most learned believers realize how much more there is to know and humility will be one of their biggest assets. God can teach the teachable but the 'all knowing' man or woman, as they perceive themselves, cannot be taught anything new.
Blessings!
Agreed!Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 04 2010,13:28) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2010,06:28) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 01 2010,20:44) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,12:30) Laurel,
It is interesting to have those types of conversations with the Mormons and it is good that you are getting more familiar with their doctrines. I wonder if the Mormons believe that Jesus BECAME a god/God or always was from the get go. I would assume that they think that they will BECOME a god and do not think of themselves as gods by birth or original nature. I believe that Jesus never became 'theos' but always was a 'theos' and that is the huge difference that cannot be acquired by any man. The two are incomparable and man cannot attain becoming a 'theos' by original nature, it would be an impossibility. Do you see that?
Blessings,
Kathi
It was HaSatan who said we could be like Elohim kowing good and evil.Well he was partly right. We do have a choice to choose good or evil, BUT
we can never be equal to Elohim, no man can, not even His Beloved Son.Beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Is there anything in what I wrote to make it sound like the Son was exactly equal in every way to the Father?
To answer your question.
Yes. Ultimately there is only One Elohim and His Name is YHWH or Yahuweh or some call Jehovah or Yahovah.Scripture is the word of Yahuweh Elohim. In other words, YHWH spoke and His word was. YHWH is the origin of all things. Yahushua Messiah being a man is part of the creation of all things. My Father in heaven prepared for His Son to come into the world at His Appointed Place and His Appointed Time, before He created anything. There are shadow pictures of this Son in every Feast that YHWH commanded His children to observe. Passover and Unleavened Bread and Pentecost are one that Yahushua Messiah has already accomplised but there remains the Fall Feasts when the Messiah will come again as King and Judge. YHWH ELohim has put all these in His Son's hand to be accomplished.
Yahushua was flesh. His body now esteemed, He sits at the right hand of YHWH ELohim, though He and His Father are one, they are not the same person, for YHWH is a Spirit being, like the wind, we do not see where He comes from or where He goes, but His being is evident through His Word, and His Son. These are the two witnesses that teach us Who our heavenly Father is. Back in the days before the birth of the Messiah, the righteous believed on His promise, the promise of the coming of the Messiah, and i believe they even knew what His name was. King David knew of the Messiah, as well as Abraham and many other prophets of YHWH ELohim.
See, i do not believe in the man-made doctrine of trinitarianisim. Because of my belief i doubted if i was a Christian, since it seems to me that the definition of a Christian is one who believes in a trinity. So i asked the pastor and he said, NO, i do not have to believe the trinity doctrine to be a Christian, all i need to do is follow the Messiah. Therefore i still call myself a Christian, BUT there is so much false teaching in the Christian church today, i had to leave her in order to follow Yahushua Messiah.
The Messiah has taught me that He is not ELohim, but that YHWH is ELohim, and He worshipped YHWH. I believe John Chapter 17. Yahushua Messiah called me to follow Him and worship YHWH. The Messiah is my brother.
“In my opinion,” any person who says that je_us is g_d or that je_us is Creator is following the doctrines of HaSatan hopefully in ignorance.
Yahushua the Messiah said, “Forgive them Father for they do not know what they are doing.” So i must forgive your ignorance as well, lest i be judged and be found guilty, because i was once just like you in that i was decieved in many ways, except that i always knew there was only one ELohim, and that Yahushua the Messiah is not that One, but is the Beloved Son of Him who created all things.
Where ever there is transgression from the Torah, there will be separation from truth. If one only transgresses a little, over time will grow because sin begets sin, like the snowball effect. So it is very important that we do not run, when we are uncertain of a thing, but that we stop, wait, pray, and read the Word until YHWH ELohim sends confirmation to us.
See i do not believe on anything that can not be prooved. My belief is not blind. It seems to me that the church today teaches that we must believe in mysteries in order to be called believers, but i know that this is Babylon. My belief is founded on a rock, and that Rock is Torah, and Yahushua Messiah.[/B]
Excellent post it is Laurel. I think my beliefs are almost matching with yours. The only difficulty I found with your understanding of preexistence of Messiah. Do you think Messiah was preexisting his birth literally? Do you uphold Virgin Birth which was not supported by Hebrew scriptures? Do you hold that the death of Messiah required for sin atonement? Hope you will respond to my queries.Love and peace to you
Adam
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
