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charles
confusion could be a good thing if you are driven by ego ,for it give you a feeling of knowing what all others do not ,but then what you know no one is interested in,
It seems EDj can not keep up with the class, he has demoted himself the a lower class .
Back to basic class I should say.
wakeup.
k
T,
wrong the flock (great crowed ) are those being invited ;the church are the that are redeemed from the earth
Are you sure you have that correct?
1 Thessalonians 1:1New English Translation (NET Bible)
Salutation1 From Paul and Silvanus and Timothy, to the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace and peace to you!
1 Corinthians 1:2New English Translation (NET Bible)
2 to the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, and called to be saints, with all those in every place who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.
Philemon 1:2New English Translation (NET Bible)
2 to Apphia our sister, to Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church that meets in your house.
Rev 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.Phil 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward (144k)in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.(the great crowed on earth)1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.(144k)
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.what i understand of what Paul really says is this ;Paul means that if you are existing in the flesh in a natural body then when we die we can also receive a spiritual body ,
1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, (144k)the firstfruits; then, when he comes, (great crowd)those who belong to him.
Christ came first and only for the 144k ,later he called the great crowd
Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
Jn 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Jn 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:
Jn 17:23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.those are some of my scriptures on what i base myself on
T,
None of those passages you quoted even used the word “church” so how do you choose to limit that term only to a sect of believers you choose to say is special?
In short I am not following your reasoning.
The “BRIDE OF CHRIST” IS NOT THE CHURCH
The Bride of Christ
1. There is a “lamb’s wife, the bride of Christ”, but it is NOT the church. Revelation 21:9-10 CLEARLY states that the “the bride, the Lamb’s wife” is the Holy Jerusalem.Hello Grasshopper.
Exactly!2. Rev 19:7 CANNOT be refering to the church! It has to be something else!
Excellent observation!
If the church is “the bride of Christ” then the Christian has to do something to get “herself ready”. Rev 19:7 says, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.” This requires “works” to be done by the Christian to get ready. The word says that we are already made righteous, and are already sanctified. So then, the church, in God’s eyes, is already ready.
We the true worshipers, still have to get outselves ready. We are deemed “righteous” at the end of the race, not before. Once we go through the front door, which is Christ, we then have to learn of him. This entails feeding on Christ (The Word of God). We have to read and study to soak in truth. Without this knowledge, we cannot change and will be deceived. The truth is our weapon and our armour. This hunger for truth which is God’s Word will not only feed us with the bare essentials (milk) but will nourish us with solids also. If we don’t have the solids we will be deceived and will make the wrong choices, and maybe get swept up in the great falling away that is coming. We have to love and have God’s doctrine in our hearts. We will go through this process when we fall and get back up. We will realise that God’s way was the right way, and our own way was wrong. We will come to love his ways, and see for ourselves through experience that he knows what he’s doing, and he was right all along, and we will learn all the “why’s” also.
…now that that’s out the way, you just mentioned, this holy Jerusalem coming down which cannot be the church, because of your reasons below which are very good.
3. If the Church were “the bride, the Lamb’s wife” then that angel would have shown him “the Church”, not the Holy Jerusalem. – Rev. 21:9-10
4. Jesus did not teach that his body is also his bride.Paul didn’t teach it either.
5. Christians are repeatedly called “sons of God”, “the body of Christ” and “the church” throughout the New Testament but are never called “the bride of Christ”.
Excellent work brother!
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The main pillar in this teaching is that the church as the “bride of Christ” must MAKE HERSELF READY. This teaching is inconsistent with the entire Pauline Revelation of the Gospel of Grace.
In order to understand what the Holy Jerusalem is that will come down, we have to go to Rev 12, and take a look at that woman. The woman with the 12 stars on her head symbolises “God’s doctrine” God uses a woman as an example, because the woman produces children. Anyone who feeds on this doctrine that comes from heaven (above) will become one of her children.
We hopefully, have all been feeding on God’s doctrine which is in the holy scriptures, but during the millennium, this Doctrine that comes from heaven, will be here on earth for the future generations to learn . Knowledge (the pure doctrine of God) will be preached throughout the earth, and it will come out of Jerusalem, the camp of the saints or also known as “The kingdom on God on earth” and will be preached by Jesus Christ, The King of Kings with his holy saints that were resurrected, they will teach for a thousand years.
God will make this Holy Jerusalem (His Doctrine, the Woman) ready to come down and be preached on the earth at his timing (The millennium) for the Jews sakes, and the gentiles that will survive Armageddon, and their future offsprings.So when it mentions that the marriage of the lamb comes, and his wife has made herself ready, the wife is “God’s Doctrine/his truth/his Word” has come down to judge and now rule. The lambs wife has a voice (The Word of God), and she will be heard now on earth. She is arrayed (decked) with fine linen, and the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. The saints who have been feeding on her doctrine, will be there with her, but they are not the bride themselves. The saints are what this woman has produced….her children.
His doctrine is just pictured as a bride, because it’s beautiful, bright and full of truth, and it results in converted souls, but the Glory is all God’s. It’s what he’s produced. He made it happen. He’s creating spiritual children for himself, and will create many more children during the millennium, which is why there will be another spectacular event after the 2nd resurrection that is likened to a wedding also. This is the wedding of weddings, when all is completed and fulfilled. A really big celebration. Spectacular! It’s likened to a bride, because a bride wears white, and symbolises purity. This purity is his doctrine.
Then the heavens and the earth will be melted, and a made anew. There will be no more death ever again.k
None of those passages you quoted even used the word “church” so how do you choose to limit that term only to a sect of believers you choose to say is special?
In short I am not following your reasoning.
Rev 20;6 the 144k what are they become ?
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
church means what ? assembly ,congregation / the 144k are the ,congregation /and assembly /church/brothers/compagnons/ the called ones /the elected ones/
the problem with many people is that they try to pick their spot without God given it ; not good
Nick,
2 Corinthians 1:1New English Translation (NET Bible)
1 From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God that is in Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia.
It seems some people believe they know better than Paul even though Jesus appointed him apostle.
Nick
2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
You still don’t get it do you?
There is no actual wedding. It’s symbolic.
There is no bride, it’s symbolic
There is no bridegroom, it’s symbolic.
Christ doesn’t really get married, we are his brothers, not his lovers.
There is no marriage in heaven, it’s all symbolic of a spectacular event.We are to have one husband. One God. faithful, no other doctrine, no other word, except God’s word,
otherwise we would belong to Babylon, the whore, who goes with many other doctrines, and many other gods.
This would cause God jealousy, because we would be worshiping and thanking something else when God has provided it all for us.
God would feel betrayed, because we would not be loyal.
So we are promised to God only, and we can only know him through his Word. In his word is His teachings, his laws, his guidance, his warnings, his love, his salvation, his everything.His laws tell us to love one another, not go around mocking and degrading each other. I can tell you do not know him, because if you did you would not do and say the things you do, but be eager to gain more knowledge instead of acting as you know it all.
T,
The 144,00 are those that are living in the time of tribulations. They are sealed before the earth, sea, and trees are harmed by the actions of the four angels who hold the found winds back from blowing on the earth, sea, and trees. It also appears to happen in the Sixth seal which I doubt has come yet. They probably are the church of that time and they also seem to be the ones that will change when they see Jesus descending in the clouds.
Hi J42,
Yes it is all symbolic but like parables these symbols are deeply truthful.
They speak of a Lord reunited with his people, a loving union between him and those who had come to know and love him but never met him.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.
Hi J42,
Yes it is all symbolic but like parables these symbols are deeply truthful.
They speak of a Lord reunited with his people, a loving union between him and those who had come to know and love him but never met him.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.
Nick
Yes the parables are truthful. That will happen, no doubt. In the end, the glory belongs to God. It’s his marvelous truth that produces these saints and brings them all together. The Word of God holds them together.
Men just like to think that at the end of it, we get all the glory. It makes them feel special.
We are only doing what is commanded of us, and we are there because of mercy.We just get a share in that glory, for the glory belongs to God. When that time comes everything will be fulfilled according to his Word, and his marvelous plan – “operation salvation”
k
T,
The 144,00 are those that are living in the time of tribulations. They are sealed before the earth, sea, and trees are harmed by the actions of the four angels who hold the found winds back from blowing on the earth, sea, and trees. It also appears to happen in the Sixth seal which I doubt has come yet. They probably are the church of that time and they also seem to be the ones that will change when they see Jesus descending in the clouds.
their is no one event ,one time tribulation and through which anyone is saved, the tribulation in scriptures are the Christian live into the faith of all believer and only those that will remain faithful until the end of their lives will be saved ,the fact that this is a ongoing development until the end of this age, what is the total fulfilment of God’s words ,
T,
There are tribulations but the Tribulation seems a one time event lasting over several periods of time, possibly brief times. The Sixth Seal is when the 144,000 are first mentioned in Revelations. Assuming that the Sixth Seal is an Age then it seem to be close to the end. Some parts of it even make it sound like the end. I see nothing to say any of the 144,000 are resurrected and instead I see where they are protected by being sealed. That leads me to think they are the flesh that saved by cutting time short.
K
There are tribulations but the Tribulation seems a one time event lasting over several periods of time,
could you help me out here with scriptures for i do not recall anything like it only the 70 AD event Prophecy,thanks
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