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Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 07 2007,13:02) I like this one Deu 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
I like this verse:Genesis 48:15
15And he blessed Joseph and said,“The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day,
16the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the boys;
and in them let my name be carried on, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.”What? Jacob's God who has been his shepherd, THE ANGEL.
And this Verse:
Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”God has a God? Wow!!!!
John 16
1″All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you. I did not tell you this at first because I was with you.
Wow people don't really understand who the God of Israel is and how he operates?
!!Isaiah 9:6 LXX
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel [Angel of great counsel]: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.What the messiah is the Angel of Great counsel!!!!
? Could the God of Israel be the Angel of Great counsel and the Messiah???!!!
Deuteronomy 32:8-9
8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9But the LORD’s [YHVH] portion is his people,Wow could the God of Israel be the Son of God who inherited Israel from the Father the Most High???
But I thought YHVH was the Father's name?
?Genesis 19:24
24Then the LORD (YHVH) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD (YHVH) out of heaven. (Read the verses preceding this verse and you see it is the angel talking to Lot who is to be doing the destroying and he promises not to also destroy a near by village called Zoar where Lot wanted to flee to. Jesus was that angel.)Exodus 23:20
20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.Jesus agrees in the Garden Prayer.
John 17:10-12
10 All who are mine belong to you, and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory. 11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name; now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me.Philippians 2:9-11
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.OHHH they share that name as ONE!!!!!
Deuteronomy 6:4
4″Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Towshab,
What if your rejection of the Christian Faith is partly based off of your adherence to the masoretic traditon?
The Septuagint was the first translation made of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek. It was begun over two hundred years before the birth of Jesus. It was translated from a Hebrew Old Testament text-type that is older than the Masoretic text, from which most Old Testaments are translated today. This is sad, for the apostles had access to both the Septuagint and to the proto-Masoretic text that was in existence in their time. And they chose to quote from the Septuagint—not the proto-Masoretic text.
You have probably noticed that many of the Old Testament passages that are quoted in the New Testament don't read the same in the New as they do in the Old. However, if you were using the Septuagint Old Testament, they would read the same.
For example, notice this passage from the Psalms that is quoted in the Book of Hebrews: “Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, 'Sacrifice and offering thou hast not desired, but a body thou hast prepared for me'” (Heb. 10:5,6). In that passage, Paul is quoting from Psalm 40:6. If you look up Psalm 40:6 in your Bible, you will find that it reads: “Sacrifice and offering Thou hast not desired; mine ears Thou hast opened.” That's not how writer of Hebrews quoted that verse, is it?
Our Old Testaments don't say anything in Psalms about “a body Thou hast prepared for me.” Is that not part of Scripture? If it isn't, why did the writer of Hebrews quote it as Scripture? If it is part of Scripture, what justification do we have for using a text that is different from what the apostles were using?
That is not an isolated example. Such variances between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are fairly numerous. In fact, one of the cardinal teachings of Christianity turns on one of these variances. We have all read Matthew's quotation from Isaiah 7:14: “Now all this took place that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, 'Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel'” (Matt. 1:22,23). What I did not realize until recently was that the Hebrew Masoretic text does not say, “the virgin shall be with child.” It says, “the young woman shall be with child.” No wonder the apostles and their disciples chose the Septuagint over the Masoretic text.
Unless you use the Revised Standard Version, if you look up Isaiah 7:14 in your Old Testament, you will probably find that it reads “virgin” instead of “young woman.” That's because translators have fudged on their use of the Masoretic text in order to conform to the cardinal Christian doctrine of the virgin birth. But how honest is that? Can we ignore the Septuagint and treat it as “a translation full of errors,” but then when one of those “errors” supports a major Christian doctrine, go over and borrow from it? Are we really seeking truth when we do that?
Is the Septuagint Full of Errors?
During the Middle Ages, and for many centuries thereafter, western Christians mistakenly thought that the Septuagint was merely a careless translation of the Hebrew text. Many Christians today still think that. However, during the 1800s, scholars began to postulate that perhaps the reason for the variance between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text was that the translators of the Septuagint were working from an earlier Hebrew text that varied from the later Masoretic text.
In 1947, when scholars were still speculating about these things, an Arab shepherd accidentally discovered some ancient Jewish scrolls near the settlement of Qumran in Palestine. Those scrolls, along with numerous other scrolls later found in the same vicinity, have come to be known as the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the Qumran Library. The Old Testament texts found among these scrolls were centuries older than any previously known Old Testament manuscripts. Among the first scrolls examined were two manuscripts of the Book of Isaiah. The initial published reports proclaimed that those manuscripts were virtually identical to the Masoretic text of today. Evangelical Christians were quick to propagate these initial reports.
However, later, a more sober reflection on the Isaiah scrolls, coupled with the discovery of Dead Sea manuscripts for other Old Testament books, revealed that the initial reports were premature. Rather than vindicating the Masoretic text as being the original Hebrew text, the thousands of Qumran text specimens reveal that there was a definite diversity of text types of the Old Testament in use during the centuries before Christ. The Masoretic text reflects only one of those text types. Unfortunately, evangelicals have not been very quick to retract those original premature reports.
More importantly, those manuscripts confirmed that there were early Hebrew manuscripts that largely agree textually with the Septuagint. So the Septuagint was not a sloppy translation of the Masoretic text. Rather, it is apparently a reasonably faithful translation of another text type—a text that may well be older than the prototype of the Masoretic text. Again, let me emphasize that the differences between these text types do not affect any significant spiritual truths. They mainly affect the wording of various Old Testament passages.
Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 07 2007,08:13) Towshab, What if your rejection of the Christian Faith is partly based off of your adherence to the masoretic traditon?
Nope I could find the same lack of fulfilled prophecies using the LXX. It matters little.
Quote The Septuagint was the first translation made of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek. It was begun over two hundred years before the birth of Jesus. It was translated from a Hebrew Old Testament text-type that is older than the Masoretic text, from which most Old Testaments are translated today. This is sad, for the apostles had access to both the Septuagint and to the proto-Masoretic text that was in existence in their time. And they chose to quote from the Septuagint—not the proto-Masoretic text. If you'll study a little deeper you find that the only books that were translated originally was the Pentateuch. There really isn't much evidence that shows when the remainder of the Tanakh was translated and by who. In any case no one was specifically commissioned to translate the balance of the Tanakh to Greek.
Quote You have probably noticed that many of the Old Testament passages that are quoted in the New Testament don't read the same in the New as they do in the Old. However, if you were using the Septuagint Old Testament, they would read the same. Yes I am quite aware of that but they really do not change the message all that much certainly not to the degree that it matters in relation to Jesus being the end times Moshiach.
Quote For example, notice this passage from the Psalms that is quoted in the Book of Hebrews: “Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, 'Sacrifice and offering thou hast not desired, but a body thou hast prepared for me'” (Heb. 10:5,6). In that passage, Paul is quoting from Psalm 40:6. If you look up Psalm 40:6 in your Bible, you will find that it reads: “Sacrifice and offering Thou hast not desired; mine ears Thou hast opened.” That's not how writer of Hebrews quoted that verse, is it? I already know about this verse
. Can it be proven without a doubt that this was in the original LXX or later insert by those who 'corrected' the LXX over time? I'm not saying this is the case but I can't find anything that backs that this was in the first version of the translated Psalms in the LXX. Any info?Quote Our Old Testaments don't say anything in Psalms about “a body Thou hast prepared for me.” Is that not part of Scripture? If it isn't, why did the writer of Hebrews quote it as Scripture? If it is part of Scripture, what justification do we have for using a text that is different from what the apostles were using? Of course you're talking to someone who thinks the Christian bible is a big farce anyway so you need to ask someone less biased
. So I don't think the book of Hebrews is inspired why would I care what version of the Tanakh it quoted from?Quote That is not an isolated example. Such variances between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are fairly numerous. In fact, one of the cardinal teachings of Christianity turns on one of these variances. We have all read Matthew's quotation from Isaiah 7:14: “Now all this took place that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, 'Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel'” (Matt. 1:22,23). What I did not realize until recently was that the Hebrew Masoretic text does not say, “the virgin shall be with child.” It says, “the young woman shall be with child.” No wonder the apostles and their disciples chose the Septuagint over the Masoretic text. Yes but even Strong's admits that Immanuel was the name of one of Isaiah's sons. So in order to support the LXX reading of this verse you must believe that there was a virgin who gave birth before Mary.
Quote Unless you use the Revised Standard Version, if you look up Isaiah 7:14 in your Old Testament, you will probably find that it reads “virgin” instead of “young woman.” That's because translators have fudged on their use of the Masoretic text in order to conform to the cardinal Christian doctrine of the virgin birth. But how honest is that? Can we ignore the Septuagint and treat it as “a translation full of errors,” but then when one of those “errors” supports a major Christian doctrine, go over and borrow from it? Are we really seeking truth when we do that? No they are making a religion.
Quote Is the Septuagint Full of Errors? During the Middle Ages, and for many centuries thereafter, western Christians mistakenly thought that the Septuagint was merely a careless translation of the Hebrew text. Many Christians today still think that. However, during the 1800s, scholars began to postulate that perhaps the reason for the variance between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text was that the translators of the Septuagint were working from an earlier Hebrew text that varied from the later Masoretic text.
In 1947, when scholars were still speculating about these things, an Arab shepherd accidentally discovered some ancient Jewish scrolls near the settlement of Qumran in Palestine. Those scrolls, along with numerous other scrolls later found in the same vicinity, have come to be known as the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the Qumran Library. The Old Testament texts found among these scrolls were centuries older than any previously known Old Testament manuscripts. Among the first scrolls examined were two manuscripts of the Book of Isaiah. The initial published reports proclaimed that those manuscripts were virtually identical to the Masoretic text of today. Evangelical Christians were quick to propagate these initial reports.
However, later, a more sober reflection on the Isaiah scrolls, coupled with the discovery of Dead Sea manuscripts for other Old Testament books, revealed that the initial reports were premature. Rather than vindicating the Masoretic text as being the original Hebrew text, the thousands of Qumran text specimens reveal that there was a def
inite diversity of text types of the Old Testament in use during the centuries before Christ. The Masoretic text reflects only one of those text types. Unfortunately, evangelicals have not been very quick to retract those original premature reports.It depends on your source. But two Catholic Christians left their faith after studying the DSS. One Geza Vermes came back to the religion of his birth, Judaism. He was born a Jew but raised as a Catholic by parents who had converted to Catholocism. After working on the DSS he know longer saw truth in Christianity and embraced the relgion of his heritage, Judaism. I don't recall the other Catholic who abandoned Christianity but its out there if you look.
Again, 60% of the DSS support the Masoretic while 5% support the LXX. You do the math.
Quote More importantly, those manuscripts confirmed that there were early Hebrew manuscripts that largely agree textually with the Septuagint. So the Septuagint was not a sloppy translation of the Masoretic text. Rather, it is apparently a reasonably faithful translation of another text type—a text that may well be older than the prototype of the Masoretic text. Again, let me emphasize that the differences between these text types do not affect any significant spiritual truths. They mainly affect the wording of various Old Testament passages.
Well that's not a biased source is it
?Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 07 2007,23:34) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 07 2007,13:02) I like this one Deu 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
I like this verse:Genesis 48:15
15And he blessed Joseph and said,“The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day,
16the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the boys;
and in them let my name be carried on, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.”What? Jacob's God who has been his shepherd, THE ANGEL.
And this Verse:
Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”God has a God? Wow!!!!
John 16
1″All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you. I did not tell you this at first because I was with you.
Wow people don't really understand who the God of Israel is and how he operates?
!!Isaiah 9:6 LXX
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel [Angel of great counsel]: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.What the messiah is the Angel of Great counsel!!!!
? Could the God of Israel be the Angel of Great counsel and the Messiah???!!!
Deuteronomy 32:8-9
8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9But the LORD’s [YHVH] portion is his people,Wow could the God of Israel be the Son of God who inherited Israel from the Father the Most High???
But I thought YHVH was the Father's name?
?Genesis 19:24
24Then the LORD (YHVH) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD (YHVH) out of heaven. (Read the verses preceding this verse and you see it is the angel talking to Lot who is to be doing the destroying and he promises not to also destroy a near by village called Zoar where Lot wanted to flee to. Jesus was that angel.)Exodus 23:20
20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.Jesus agrees in the Garden Prayer.
John 17:10-12
10 All who are mine belong to you, and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory. 11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name; now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me.Philippians 2:9-11
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.OHHH they share that name as ONE!!!!!
Deuteronomy 6:4
4″Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Towshabhow do you understand the verses in the above quote?
Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 07 2007,20:36) Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 07 2007,23:34)
I like this verse:Genesis 48:15
15And he blessed Joseph and said,“The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day,
16the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the boys;
and in them let my name be carried on, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.”On occasion the people found in the Tanakh associated angels with G-d because they came as representatives of G-d. Jacob wrestled an angel but when you first find the event you get no indication that it is an angel. Compare
==========================================
Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.Hos 12:3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
Hos 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;
==========================================For another example see the encounters of an angel with Samson's parents in Judges 13.
Quote What? Jacob's God who has been his shepherd, THE ANGEL. And this Verse:
Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”God has a God? Wow!!!!
No wow. You need to reference back to the original my friend, Psalm 45. This was written of a human king.
Quote John 16 1″All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you. I did not tell you this at first because I was with you.
Wow people don't really understand who the God of Israel is and how he operates?
!!
I have no comment on GT verses as I don't believe the GT to be inspired by G-d.Quote Isaiah 9:6 LXX
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel [Angel of great counsel]: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.You stopped short. Tell me how the rest of Is 9 applies to Jesus. This chapter is about King Hezekiah.
Quote What the messiah is the Angel of Great counsel!!!! ? Could the God of Israel be the Angel of Great counsel and the Messiah???!!!
From the Apostles Bible, also the LXX
Isa 9:6 For a Child is born to us, and a Son is given to us, whose government is upon His shoulder; and His name is called the Messenger of great counsel; for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to Him.
Besides where do you see G-d bringing health to Jesus?
Quote Deuteronomy 32:8-9 8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9But the LORD’s [YHVH] portion is his people,Wow could the God of Israel be the Son of God who inherited Israel from the Father the Most High???
You're forcing the text. All this says is that G-d alloted angels over the peoples but personally chose Israel as His own people.
Quote But I thought YHVH was the Father's name? ?Christians only speculate that because YHVH is never mentioned in the GT. That is one of many reasons you all argue over the nature of Jesus and G-d.
Quote Genesis 19:24
24Then the LORD (YHVH) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD (YHVH) out of heaven. (Read the verses preceding this verse and you see it is the angel talking to Lot who is to be doing the destroying and he promises not to also destroy a near by village called Zoar where Lot wanted to flee to. Jesus was that angel.)Really? I see no Jesus in this. Show me Jesus. That is you forcing Jesus into the text like Christians are want to do. You take the Jewish bible and read Jesus back into it when Jesus does not exist within it. If there are any
prophecies he does fit they end up being that of a false prophet.Quote Exodus 23:20
20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.Keep going
Exo 23:23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
Know of any of these people still around today?
Quote Jesus agrees in the Garden Prayer.
John 17:10-12
10 All who are mine belong to you, and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory. 11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name; now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me.Philippians 2:9-11
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.OHHH they share that name as ONE!!!!!
Since I do not believe that the GT is inspired by G-d, no comment.
Quote Deuteronomy 6:4 4″Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Yes He is!
Again and Again I will object to what Tow is saying, because in my Book the Bible it says whoever does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti-Christ, so why in Jesus Name would you want to have a conversation with Him?
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 14 2007,23:08) Again and Again I will object to what Tow is saying, because in my Book the Bible it says whoever does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti-Christ, so why in Jesus Name would you want to have a conversation with Him?
Peace and Love Mrs.
I agree.Hi,
No bible version mentions any trinity.
Yet huge denominations are on this basis.
Why is sand so popular to build on?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2007,05:17) Hi,
No bible version mentions any trinity.
Yet huge denominations are on this basis.
Why is sand so popular to build on?
Nick good question. Maybe Satan is doing a good job here and you know we are at the end times and many are called but few will be chosen. The road is steep and few will find it. It is very upsetting to me that an Atheist can come in here and Christians will have conversation with them even tho scriptures given tells them not to do so. I know I have here and here also, but in the very beginning I told everybody to stop, but they would not heed, and now I don't know what to think of those Brethren anymore. I love them with all of my Heart, but so do I my own Children, but when it comes to the Word of God I draw a line.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 28 2007,09:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2007,05:17) Hi,
No bible version mentions any trinity.
Yet huge denominations are on this basis.
Why is sand so popular to build on?
Nick good question. Maybe Satan is doing a good job here and you know we are at the end times and many are called but few will be chosen. The road is steep and few will find it. It is very upsetting to me that an Atheist can come in here and Christians will have conversation with them even tho scriptures given tells them not to do so. I know I have here and here also, but in the very beginning I told everybody to stop, but they would not heed, and now I don't know what to think of those Brethren anymore. I love them with all of my Heart, but so do I my own Children, but when it comes to the Word of God I draw a line.Peace and Love Mrs.
You think satan is trying to convince people of the trinity?Isn't satan busy doing sub-contracting for god as a virtue-tester?
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 29 2007,02:51) Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 28 2007,09:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2007,05:17) Hi,
No bible version mentions any trinity.
Yet huge denominations are on this basis.
Why is sand so popular to build on?
Nick good question. Maybe Satan is doing a good job here and you know we are at the end times and many are called but few will be chosen. The road is steep and few will find it. It is very upsetting to me that an Atheist can come in here and Christians will have conversation with them even tho scriptures given tells them not to do so. I know I have here and here also, but in the very beginning I told everybody to stop, but they would not heed, and now I don't know what to think of those Brethren anymore. I love them with all of my Heart, but so do I my own Children, but when it comes to the Word of God I draw a line.Peace and Love Mrs.
You think satan is trying to convince people of the trinity?Isn't satan busy doing sub-contracting for god as a virtue-tester?
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Stuart
Haha, there are two different 'satans'. One a mythical man in a red suit with a pitchfork who is waiting on all the bad people in hell. Oh wait I forgot you don't have to be bad you just have to not accept Jesus.The other you see here is merely an adversarial spirit. Really it has to do with our internal conflict to choose between doing right or wrong. Ask Jiminy Cricket all about it.
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 29 2007,23:45) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 29 2007,02:51) Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 28 2007,09:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2007,05:17) Hi,
No bible version mentions any trinity.
Yet huge denominations are on this basis.
Why is sand so popular to build on?
Nick good question. Maybe Satan is doing a good job here and you know we are at the end times and many are called but few will be chosen. The road is steep and few will find it. It is very upsetting to me that an Atheist can come in here and Christians will have conversation with them even tho scriptures given tells them not to do so. I know I have here and here also, but in the very beginning I told everybody to stop, but they would not heed, and now I don't know what to think of those Brethren anymore. I love them with all of my Heart, but so do I my own Children, but when it comes to the Word of God I draw a line.Peace and Love Mrs.
You think satan is trying to convince people of the trinity?Isn't satan busy doing sub-contracting for god as a virtue-tester?
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Stuart
Haha, there are two different 'satans'. One a mythical man in a red suit with a pitchfork who is waiting on all the bad people in hell. Oh wait I forgot you don't have to be bad you just have to not accept Jesus.The other you see here is merely an adversarial spirit. Really it has to do with our internal conflict to choose between doing right or wrong. Ask Jiminy Cricket all about it.
So in other words satan is half of your conscience? In times of sudden stress reactions are usually guided by the reptilian part of the human brain, unless your neocortex can get there in time and work out a more considered response. Is satan the id of your reptillian brain and 'god' the id of your neocortex?Stuart
Thats good work, even God repented of the evil he was going to do, he took his own thoughts captive, while he grieved over ever making men Kind, repented,
As said He will not always strive with men, so even when judgment comes, in a flood of destruction, and confusion, help is found only discern Motives, of a full his plan,
Bad can be good, a mind field of fire for lake of understanding, God made everythingPsalm 23
A psalm of David.
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,3 he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness
for his name's sake.4 Even though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.6 Surely goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.Quote (charity @ Nov. 30 2007,09:35) Thats good work, even God repented of the evil he was going to do, he took his own thoughts captive, while he grieved over ever making men Kind, repented,
As said He will not always strive with men, so even when judgment comes, in a flood of destruction, and confusion, help is found only discern Motives, of a full his plan,
Bad can be good, a mind field of fire for lake of understanding, God made everything
Hi CharityI've never understood why god is described as having so much angst about how “men” turned out. Surely an omnipotent being would have known all this ahead of time, and life (whatever that means for a deity) must actually be quite boring and predictable for him. Can an all-knowing being keep surprises from himself? If not, then is he omnipotent?
Stuart
Hi Stu,
Should we judge God by our puny human expectations
or respectfully let Him reveal His nature
through the inspired writers?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,12:42) Hi Stu,
Should we judge God by our puny human expectations
or respectfully let Him reveal His nature
through the inspired writers?
I think we should judge a mythical character who is attributed to have killed or ordered the murders of between 2,000,000 and 32,000,000 people. I think we should question the claim of omnipotence with the logical contradictions that must arise from that claim. Why does a murderer who is also a logical impossibility deserve much respect?If the writer of Leviticus was inspired by god to write the loathing and bitter contents of that book, then there is only more reason to question.
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 03 2007,20:24) Hi Stu,
Are you angry with God
or refusing to believe in Him?
No a rightEous anger against gOD…S, THAT CONTUNUE WITH FORCE,TO DO AS THEY WISH
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