The bible

Participant

Hi David

Quote

So if someone who is 100% sure of something is “intellectually dead” what is someone who is: “99.9999999999999999999999999999% sure”?

I like to think, honest.

Quote

It seemed funny to me that he would say that, being so sure there is no God, and hence implying that about himself.

Glad for my well-considered philosophy to have been a source of amusement for you. The feeling is mutual, I assure you!

Stuart

January 8, 2008 at 9:29 am#77195

Participant

Hi Stu,
Philosophy is just a timewasting naval gazing exercise.
When are you going to get real?

January 8, 2008 at 9:32 am#77196

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,20:29)

Hi Stu,
Philosophy is just a timewasting naval gazing exercise.
When are you going to get real?

I think you will find that you have a philosophy too. Maybe you would call it a strawman to say it is a religious fantasy, but philosophy it is.

Stuart

January 8, 2008 at 9:35 am#77198

Participant

Hi Stu,
Paul spoke of it
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
No.
We are ones who live out faith.
Philosophers never seem to be able to make up their minds about anything but enjoy the intellectual challenges.

January 8, 2008 at 9:36 am#77200

IM4Truth

Participant

Stu Sine you came from the Ape, who created the Ape? Did all the Animal come about by the Big Bang too? Not believing in a Creator sure makes it complicated. Again the Bible has foretold about the end times, that knowledge will increase. And look at what has happened the last 100 years. Prophecy fulfilled, prove of the Bible being the word of God. Period. Again.

Peace and Love Mrs.

January 8, 2008 at 9:40 am#77204

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,20:35)

Well I hate to interpret scripture for you, but doesn't that refer to specific, non-religious philosophies? Philosophy just means the love of knowledge, it does not exclude theological knowledge.

I am skeptical of anyone who would say they don't have a philosophy, because that is a philosophy.

Stuart

January 8, 2008 at 9:41 am#77205

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,20:35)

actually it is not

“rudiments of the world”

it is

elements spirits

in other words the archons, principalities and powers. the Jehovah gods

Paul was talking about the vain philosophies of religious rituals. In particular that of the Jews.

January 8, 2008 at 9:48 am#77208

Participant

Quote (IM4Truth @ Jan. 08 2008,20:36)

Peace and Love Mrs.

Apes did not come directly from the big bang, no. Why do you assume the ape was created? Actually believing in a creator makes things very complicated, because for you to really explain things you have to explain the creator as well as the things it created, otherwise you have explained nothing really. The explanations work very well without a creator. There is no agenda there, they just don't need that idea in order to work.

Stuart

January 8, 2008 at 8:17 pm#77282

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2008,20:48)

Quote (IM4Truth @ Jan. 08 2008,20:36)

Peace and Love Mrs.

Stuart

Hi Stu,
You just need some clever organising and coordinating power.
Perhaps Harry Potters magic?

January 8, 2008 at 11:11 pm#77345

kenrch

Participant

Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 08 2008,20:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,20:35)

actually it is not

“rudiments of the world”

it is

elements spirits

in other words the archons, principalities and powers. the Jehovah gods

Paul was talking about the vain philosophies of religious rituals. In particular that of the Jews.

Quote

Paul was talking about the vain philosophies of religious rituals. In particular that of the Jews.

Yes but why? Because Jesus fulfilled those laws.

Luk 24:26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luk 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

January 8, 2008 at 11:22 pm#77347

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 09 2008,10:11)

Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 08 2008,20:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,20:35)

actually it is not

“rudiments of the world”

it is

elements spirits

in other words the archons, principalities and powers. the Jehovah gods

Paul was talking about the vain philosophies of religious rituals. In particular that of the Jews.

Quote

Paul was talking about the vain philosophies of religious rituals. In particular that of the Jews.

Yes but why? Because Jesus fulfilled those laws.

Yes

Jesus triumphed over them and put them to shame.

The Law Jesus taught from the essenes with his clarifications:

FROM THE ESSENE BOOK OF MOSES

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

And Mount Sinai was altogether in smoke because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

And the Lord came down upon Mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount: and Moses went up.

And the Lord called unto Moses out of the mountain, saying, Come unto me, for I would give thee the Law for thy people, which shall be a covenant for the Children of Light.

And Moses went up unto God. And God spake all these words, saying,

I am the Law, thy God, which hath brought thee out from the depths of the bondage of darkness.

Thou shalt have no other Laws before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any image of the Law in heaven above or in the earth beneath. I am the invisible Law, without beginning and without end.

Thou shalt not make unto thee false laws, for I am the Law, and the whole Law of all laws. If thou forsake me, thou shalt be visited by disasters for generation upon generation.

If thou keepest my commandments, thou shalt enter the Inftnite Garden where stands the Tree of Life in the midst of the Eternal Sea.

Thou shalt not violate the Law. The Law is thy God, who shall not hold thee guiltless.

Honor thy Earthly Mother, that thy days may be long upon the land, and honor thy Heavenly Father, that eternal life be thine in the heavens, for the earth and the heavens are given unto thee by the Law, which is thy God.

Thou shalt greet thy Earthly Mother on the morning of the Sabbath.

Thou shalt greet the Angel of Earth on the second morning.

Thou shalt greet the Angel of Life on the third morning.

Thou shalt greet the Angel of Joy on the fourth morning.

Thou shalt greet the Angel of Sun on the fifth morning.

Thou shalt greet the Angel of Water on the sixth morning,

Thou shalt greet the Angel of Air on the seventh morning-

All these Angels of the Earthly Mother shalt thou greet, and consecrate thyself to them, that thou mayest enter the Infinite Garden where stands the Tree of Life.

Thou shalt worship thy Heavenly Father on the evening of the Sabbath.

Thou shalt commune with the Angel of Eternal Life on the second evening.

Thou shalt commune with the Angel of Work on the third evening.

Thou shalt commune with the Angel of Peace on the fourth evening.

Thou shalt commune with the Angel of Power on the fifth evening,

Thou shalt commune with the Angel of Love on the sixth evening.

Thou shalt commune with the Angel of Wisdom on the seventh evening.

All these Angels of the Heavenly Father shalt thou commune with, that thy soul may bathe in the Fountain of Light, and enter into the Sea of Eternity.

The seventh day is the Sabbath: thou shalt remember it, keep it holy. The Sabbath is the day of the Light of the Law, thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, but search the Light, the Kingdom of thy God, and all things shall be given unto thee.

For know ye that during six days thou shalt work with the Angels, but the seventh day shalt thou dwell in the Light of thy Lord, who is the holy Law.

Thou shalt not take the life from any living thing. Life comes only from God, who giveth it and taketh it away.

Thou shalt not debase Love. It is the sacred gift of thy Heavenly Father.

Thou Shalt not trade thy Soul, the priceless gift of the loving God, for the riches of the world, which are as seeds sown on stony ground, having no root in themselves, and so enduring but for a little while.

Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's possessions. The Law giveth unto thee much greater gifts, even the earth and the heavens, if thou keep the Commandments of the Lord
thy God.

And Moses heard the voice of the Lord, and sealed within him the covenant that was between the Lord and the Children of Light.

And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tablets of the Law were in his hand.

And the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tablets.

And the people knew not what became of Moses, and they gathered themselves together and brake off their golden earrings and made a molten calf. And they worshipped unto the idol, and offered to it burnt offerings.

And they ate and drank and danced before the golden calf, which they had made, and they abandoned themselves to corruption and evil before the Lord.

And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing, and the wickedness of the people: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tablets out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin, ye have denied thy Creator. I will go up unto the Lord and plead atonement for thy sin.

And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Lord, thou hast seen the desecration of thy Holy Law. For thy children lost faith, and worshipped the darkness, and made for themselves a golden calf. Lord, forgive them, for they are blind to the light.

And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, at the beginning of time was a covenant made between God and man, and the holy flame of the Creator did enter unto him. And he was made the son of God, and it was given him to guard his inheritance of the firstborn, and to make fruitful the land of his Father and keep it holy. And he who casteth out the Creator from him doth spit upon his birthright, and no more grievous sin doth exist in the eyes of God.

And the Lord spoke, saying, Only the Children of Light can keep the Commandments of the Law. Hear me, for I say thus: the tablets which thou didst break, these shall nevermore be written in the words of men. As thou didst return them to the earth and fire, so shall they live, invisible, in the hearts of those who are able to follow their Law. To thy people of little faith, who did sin against the Creator, even whilst thou stood on holy ground before thy God, -I will give another Law. It shall be a stern law, yea, it shall bind them, for they know not yet the Kingdom of Light.

And Moses hid the invisible Law within his breast, and kept it for a sign to the Children of Light. And God gave unto Moses the written law for the people, and he went down unto them, and spake unto them with a heavy heart.

And Moses said unto the people, these are the laws which thy God hath given thee.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Honor thy father and thy mother. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, nor thy neighbor's wife, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.

And there was a day of mourning and atonement for the great sin against the Creator, which did not end. And the broken tablets of the Invisible Law lived hidden in the breast of Moses, until it came to pass that the Children of Light appeared in the desert, and the angels walked the earth.

From the Original Hebrew and Aramaic Texts

January 8, 2008 at 11:25 pm#77350

Participant

Unfortunately, Catholics and Paul made Jesus a Pharisee Messiah and not an Essene Messiah. Thats where the blood sacrifice stuff gets mixed in. Making bad angel laws into laws the Most High made.

Hence, so much confusion.

January 8, 2008 at 11:30 pm#77353

kenrch

Participant

Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,10:25)

Unfortunately, Catholics and Paul made Jesus a Pharisee Messiah and not an Essene Messiah. Thats where the blood sacrifice stuff gets mixed in. Making bad angel laws into laws the Most High made.

Hence, so much confusion.

So you accept “some' of Paul's writings?

January 9, 2008 at 9:40 am#77447

Participant

Hi,
We have a popular idea here that the bible is a negotiable deal.
The servants of God are examined and weighed with even our God Himself in the foolish scales of sinful men and by their pathetic standards found wanting.
Surely there are others around prepared to stand up for and defend the gracious gifts of God against such crude and ignorant attacks?

January 9, 2008 at 10:03 am#77451

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 09 2008,10:30)

Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,10:25)

Unfortunately, Catholics and Paul made Jesus a Pharisee Messiah and not an Essene Messiah. Thats where the blood sacrifice stuff gets mixed in. Making bad angel laws into laws the Most High made.

Hence, so much confusion.

So you accept “some' of Paul's writings?

I think Paul was a scismatic from the Nazarene Way, but he was not completely opposite of it.

He agreed in many ways with Peter and James.

Paul has many good things written.

In the end though, Paul taught his own version of the gospel.

January 9, 2008 at 10:20 am#77457

Towshab

Participant

That is why he called it “my gospel”.

January 9, 2008 at 10:26 am#77458

Towshab

Participant

Another difference between Tanakh and GT is that for the most part, Tanakh is about a nation, a people. The GT was written to address individual groups. Paul's letters were to different churches.
Certain books seemed to be targeted to different people.

Tanakh was a national book. It was a record of a nation, a people. A whole nation heard from G-d on Mt Sinai. Moses led a whole nation, Jesus had a handful of disciples. A whole nation saw as G-d delivered them, a whole nation was fed every day in the wilderness. Jesus died the death of a Gentile and only appeared to people who knew him upon his resurrection.

Why was Christianity so private while Judaism so public?

January 9, 2008 at 10:43 am#77459