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Hi Stu,
If you accept the record of Jesus and Paul but cannot agree with their teachings then since they had their works attested to by God in miracles you should be able to tell of of even greater things done through you.
We hope you ministry of doubt and disbelief is not all you can offer.I'll bet Stu can perform as many miracles as any Christian. Jesus never said atheists could do works like he did, only those who believe in him. Yet you can do no greater works than an atheist.
Ah, so this last response admits that you, as a believer in Jesus, can not do the works of Jesus. Who lied, Jesus or you?
Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 07 2008,10:56) Ah, so this last response admits that you, as a believer in Jesus, can not do the works of Jesus. Who lied, Jesus or you?
Hi tow,
Really?
Is it by falsely reading between the lines
you got lost in the first place?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 06 2008,18:26) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 07 2008,10:56) Ah, so this last response admits that you, as a believer in Jesus, can not do the works of Jesus. Who lied, Jesus or you?
Hi tow,
Really?
Is it by falsely reading between the lines
you got lost in the first place?
So tell me Nick, can you do greater works than Stu? Yes or no?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 06 2008,21:02) Hi tow,
You can leap over buildings in a single bound?
No, but I don't believe thisJoh 14:12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
So do you believe in Jesus or not? Or did Jesus lie?
Hi Tow,
None of us know what we are capable of if called to other service
so we continue to do the little things as well as we can when asked.Hi tow,
I do not know but perhaps they await their call to service.
They are not circus performers at the beck and call of of the bored.
One thing I do know is that they are not working to destroy the faith of their brothers.
Your efforts will fail.
Your anger against God will not hurt them.But Jesus was healing people and bringing them back from the dead. Think of all the good Christians could do in this world if they'd heal people. Are you saying they are selfish and not wanting to heal people?
Hi Tow,
He only did what he saw his Father doing.
How many lepers were living in the time of Elisha and only a Syrian was healed.Hi Son of Light
Quote He means believing what scriptures say. Children will believe scriptures if you tell them they are true.
Children are evolutionarily programmed to believe what adults tell them. That does not mean that what they are told is true. Adolescence partly involves sifting the lies you have been told from the evident truth. Perhaps that is why 65%+ of teenagers are non-believers.Quote The true meaning of Jesus words in my opinion is that Children don't need lofty educations to know right and wrong. Not that we should blindly except dogma.
And the lesson of the populations of the world, especially the angnostics and atheists, is that you don’t need christianity to know right from wrong, and I don’t think Jesus would have disagreed with that view either.Quote Children know that hate, persecution, bigotry, war, selfishness and other simular acts are evil.
I think many children of fundamentalist christians are brought up to consider some of these things to be justified, and of the families I know who have brought up their children free of religion, none have children who accept these things. As Steven Weinberg says, to make a good person do evil, you need religion.Quote Children know right from wrong if they are brought up in a culture that encourages the examination and expression of man's inner spirit and moral compass.
Well if you are happy for that to be interpreted as human genetics combined with cultural context, then of course I agree.Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 06 2008,23:42) Hi Tow,
He only did what he saw his Father doing.
How many lepers were living in the time of Elisha and only a Syrian was healed.
So you answer is that people didn't heal many others in Tanakh while Jesus was healing left and right, and that while Jesus said those who believed in him would do the same works he did but greater ones, that healing is not one of these? What works do Christians do that Jesus did?Wait, is that it then? Jesus did those things because he saw his daddy doing something? Where was his daddy healing people, in heaven? And do Christians not heal anyone because they don't see their heavenly daddy doing it? Kinda hard since your bible says no one has seen god the father.
You guys must be stumbling around alot then.
Hi Nick
Quote You obviously have read the bible and believe from it of the existence of Jesus and Paul. So if the records are true these records speak of healings and resurrections and deliverances.
I do not accept the bible as a reason for believing that Jesus or Paul existed. It is tenuous at best to believe in the existence of either, however, perhaps I can be just convinced by the fleetingly ambiguous mention in the heavily meddled-with writing of Josephus. It’s a close thing.Quote So it is these aspects of the records that you choke on?
There’s no choking, only laughing. The bible is a work of historical fiction.Quote You hear the words but find inconsistencies in them from your viewpoint?
No, I question the motives of those who wrote it, especially in the light of the changes that early christians made to the records written by non-christian contemporaries.Quote Perhaps children would be amazed at what is recorded and they would believe?
We protect children from tobacco, alcohol, pornography and gambling. Perhaps children should be also protected from religion until they are able to think critically about whether they find any truth in it.Quote If you accept the record of Jesus and Paul but cannot agree with their teachings then since they had their works attested to by God in miracles you should be able to tell of of even greater things done through you.
This is where you descend into fantasy. This is all make-believe. Why do you have to swallow the Pauline fictions? Can’t you just accept that Jesus (probably, if he existed and was reported accurately) had some wise observations to make about human nature, without having to inflate his status to the supernatural and make him the hammer with which to beat other people over the head?Quote We hope you ministry of doubt and disbelief is not all you can offer.
It is the very best thing I have to offer, and it is the essence of the progress made by humanity. You can be 99.9% sure, but once you are 100% sure then you are intellectually dead.Stuart
stu, does the existence of science or the ability to reason and make progress negate the existence of God?
Do any of the known laws of science negate the existence of God?
Yet, you are 100% certain there is no God.
In your own words, you my friend, are intellectually dead.
And I asked if you were an agnostic. You eventually decided you were an “athiest.” An athiest is someone who believes (100%) there is no God.
Intellectually dead. You.
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