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Hi TT,
But you cannot let go of basic catholic dogmas?
Why don't you resolve your little tiff with the pope and snuggle up?Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,07:25) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,07:01) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,06:43) CatholicApologist,Sep. wrote:[quote=thethinker,Sep. 15 2009,05:56]CatholicApologist said:
Quote
There is a commentary by Haydock on the “private interpretation” passage of 2 Peter 1:20, 21. I think this sums up what I am referring to:Ver. 20. No prophecy of the scripture is made by private interpretation; or, as the Protestants translate it from the Greek, is of any private interpretation, i.e. is not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit. (Witham) — The Scriptures cannot be properly expounded by private spirit or fancy, but by the same spirit wherewith they were written, which is resident in the Church.
Ver. 21. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time. This is to shew that they are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment, because every part of the holy Scriptures is delivered to us by the divine spirit of God, wherewith the men were inspired who wrote them; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the spirit of God, which he left, and promised to his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Our adversaries may perhaps tell us, that we also interpret prophecies and Scriptures; we do so; but we do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, they without it. (Witham)
Thank you for the info on “private interpretation.” I am glad we now agree that Protestantism is not responsible for efj's new doubts about the fact of Christ's crucifixion. This is a very grave matter and I hope that God will confirm efj in the truth so that he may not suffer damnation with bodhitharta. I hope also that God might lift the veil from bodhitharta's eyes.thinker
Your welcome. Glad to help clear things up between us.Not to drag this on, but when you say “Protestantism is not responsible”, where do you “close the Canon on Protestant denominations” so to speak?
Who get's to decide who is Protestant and who is not?
I'm interested to know.
I have previously clarified on a thread I started “What is a Protestant?” A pure Protestant is one who holds that justification is by faith alone.thinker
So my question back to you is this:Can a person believe in Sola Fide while at the same time believing that Jesus was crucified on a stake?
CA said:
Quote So my question back to you is this: Can a person believe in Sola Fide while at the same time believing that Jesus was crucified on a stake?
You should have put your question this way: “Can a Protestant believe in Sola Fide while at the same time believing that Jesus was crucified on a stake?” The answer is yes because of the content of faith according to Protestants. Works are not part of the content of faith. You won't be able to corner me with trick questions.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,10:53) CA said: Quote So my question back to you is this: Can a person believe in Sola Fide while at the same time believing that Jesus was crucified on a stake?
You should have put your question this way: “Can a Protestant believe in Sola Fide while at the same time believing that Jesus was crucified on a stake?” The answer is yes because of the content of faith according to Protestants. Works are not part of the content of faith. You won't be able to corner me with trick questions.
thinker
Not trying to trick you. Simply to understand what is not clear to me.So do I understand correctly that this man who has denied the cross is a Protestant?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 15 2009,07:42) Hi TT,
But you cannot let go of basic catholic dogmas?
Why don't you resolve your little tiff with the pope and snuggle up?
Nick,How can your anthropology and Christology be correct seeing that you base your conclusions on the words of Bildad and not on the words of God?
thinker
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,12:09) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,10:53) CA said: Quote So my question back to you is this: Can a person believe in Sola Fide while at the same time believing that Jesus was crucified on a stake?
You should have put your question this way: “Can a Protestant believe in Sola Fide while at the same time believing that Jesus was crucified on a stake?” The answer is yes because of the content of faith according to Protestants. Works are not part of the content of faith. You won't be able to corner me with trick questions.
thinker
Not trying to trick you. Simply to understand what is not clear to me.So do I understand correctly that this man who has denied the cross is a Protestant?
Read my answer again. I said that the content of faith includes the belief that Jesus died on a stake according to Protestantism. Therefore, one who denies the crucifixion could not be a Protestant.thinker
Hi TT,
If you knew God and His son and fellowshiped with them you would not need all these theological theories would you?Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,06:43) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,06:27) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,05:56) CatholicApologist said: Quote I see. Well I must grant you that in this case, if the argumentation of our Muslim friend was the ONLY thing that persuaded him, then Sola Scriptura was not directly responsible. Though I don't know what led him to such bewilderment. There's your retraction. CA,
I respect you for retracting your accusation and I thank you. All is good between us. Just so you know WJ and I have in numerous posts opposed bodhitharta in reference to his denial that Christ was crucified. We employed the same passages of scripture that you would have employed. WJ has employed many of the passages on the Holy Spirit that you did earlier today. If these are exemplary of “private interpretation” then you are also guilty.thinker
No problem.There is a commentary by Haydock on the “private interpretation” passage of 2 Peter 1:20, 21. I think this sums up what I am referring to:
Ver. 20. No prophecy of the scripture is made by private interpretation; or, as the Protestants translate it from the Greek, is of any private interpretation, i.e. is not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit. (Witham) — The Scriptures cannot be properly expounded by private spirit or fancy, but by the same spirit wherewith they were written, which is resident in the Church.
Ver. 21. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time. This is to shew that they are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment, because every part of the holy Scriptures is delivered to us by the divine spirit of God, wherewith the men were inspired who wrote them; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the spirit of God, which he left, and promised to his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Our adversaries may perhaps tell us, that we also interpret prophecies and Scriptures; we do so; but we do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, they without it. (Witham)
Thank you for the info on “private interpretation.” I am glad we now agree that Protestantism is not responsible for efj's new doubts about the fact of Christ's crucifixion. This is a very grave matter and I hope that God will confirm efj in the truth so that he may not suffer damnation with bodhitharta. I hope also that God might lift the veil from bodhitharta's eyes.thinker
How is it you believe in justification by Faith and yet you say I am condemned for Having Exclusive Faith in God.Do you also Condemn all of Israel for their faith in God or do you not realize it was you and not them that was grafted in.
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 14 2009,11:44) Nick,
If you look on the “No one believes in the trinity” thread you will see that bodhitharta has led efj to doubt that Jesus was crucified. This is why I could never be an anti-trinitarian. You should thank the Lord for protecting you from denying our Lord was crucified.thinker
What? EFJ!As time goes on, stories start to change. Lies creep in. Sometimes it helps to go right back, to as close as you can to the original story like a good detective would. We have the bible but
Please read this:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0106.htm
Which was written long ago, by a Saint and Bishop of the original church and a student of The Apostle John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch
The Lord did indeed die on the cross, you cant disbelieve that. Dont even go there, dont even think he didnt. That is a deadly error. Get back on track, please!
Quote (karmarie @ Sep. 17 2009,00:00) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 14 2009,11:44) Nick,
If you look on the “No one believes in the trinity” thread you will see that bodhitharta has led efj to doubt that Jesus was crucified. This is why I could never be an anti-trinitarian. You should thank the Lord for protecting you from denying our Lord was crucified.thinker
What? EFJ!As time goes on, stories start to change. Lies creep in. Sometimes it helps to go right back, to as close as you can to the original story like a good detective would. We have the bible but
Please read this:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0106.htm
Which was written long ago, by a Saint and Bishop of the original church and a student of The Apostle John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch
The Lord did indeed die on the cross, you cant disbelieve that. Dont even go there, dont even think he didnt. That is a deadly error. Get back on track, please!
I don't believe it is a lie. Jesus said that God always hears him:John 11(King James Version)
35 Jesus wept.
This may very well be the shortest verse in the New Testament and why is it so important to me?
John 11
22But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.…
41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
Mark 14:35-37 (King James Version)
35And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
Luke 22:43-45 (King James Version)
43And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Psalm 91
9 Because you have made the LORD, who is my refuge,
Even the Most High, your dwelling place,
10 No evil shall befall you,
Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;
11 For He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you in all your ways.
12 In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.I understand what the Koran says Jesus was saved
Hi EF,
So Jesus did not die?
You will have to explain away a lot of scriptures that say he did.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and the tent was on no use to Paul so why do you accept these lies about death?If you don't believe Jesus was Saved by God then that is up to you but I believe that Jesus was saved by God. why do you want to be saved but insist that Jesus couldn't have been saved?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 17 2009,08:32) Hi EF,
So scripture is wrong.
Scripture is progressive to teach the truth, For instance Gentiles have always been accepted, did you know that?Scripture is right but have you studied scripture like some here for years and years?
Hi EF,
So please prove every scripture about his death wrong and then we can move on with you to new pastures?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 17 2009,08:41) Hi EF,
So please prove every scripture about his death wrong and then we can move on with you to new pastures?
The Koran says that they thought they did kill the Christ so the scriptures of the NT would not be “wrong” they would be mistaken.Jesus told his disciples that the sickness of Lazarus was not unto death and he was mistaken as he himself later said Lazarus is dead
Hi EF,
Make your own choices.
We have made ours.There is natural death and lack of the living Spirit.
Jesus knew the difference when he spoke of those who had died but were alive to God.His God and our God is the God of the living and not the dead so check it out.
No lie was ever found in his mouth but men produce new ones every day.EFJ I understand that many are on a journey to search for the truth, which can be so hard to find in such a world of confusion, with so many beliefs , Previously, the flood came and took everyone away, well its almost like today we have another type of flood taking us all away, a flood of deceptions and confusion everywhere we look, I am also on a journey, I have believed SO many things, im one of the most confused you could imagine, but one thing I know through all of my searching (and this is why I never became a Muslim despite my being REALLY drawn to it ) is the denial that Jesus is the Son of God, and the denial that Jesus died on the cross.
A good lie is 99% truth EFJ
I have a folder of things I printed, of old writtings, closer to the truth, as the bible is, than where we are today. And I read them whenever I get completly lost and confused. I have:
Shepard of Hermas
Ignatius (longer versions and non spurious)
Barnabas
Papias
First Clement (of Rome)
Polycarp
Mathetes to DiognetusIv read other early church writtings but found most of them too lengthy,
Jesus is reaching out to the Muslim people, through dreams and visions, by the thousands, Jesus is reaching out his hand asking them to come with him, revealing that he is the Son of God, and showing them that he was crucified. And that he loves them. That is what we need to do EFJ.
“…two angels dressed in white robes stood on top of the mountain. Jesus was standing between the angels. He left the angels and came to where I stood watching. As he approached me, I knelt down and he laid his hands on my head…” [read more]
“…['D.'] dreamt he was sitting with his arms tied to a chair. Then he saw a man he recognized as Jesus coming. Jesus touched the ropes and they fell from his arms…” [read more]
“…In the dream, Jesus told me to come to Him and read the Bible and He would show me the way, truth and the life…” [read more]
“…I was standing in a cross shape with a low wall around it. In my right hand, I had a big stack of white unwritten papers. I was standing at the cross beam, and I was looking to a small group of people who were standing at the top. They all wore long white clothing, but one of them was different. He was standing at the right side, and with his left hand he was leading the people through a door in the wall. Beyond the door was light, and I could not see what was in there. One moment I was standing in the dream, and the next moment I was seeing the cross from above…” [read more]
“…I saw some Christians standing in line to get into Heaven. I tried to get into this line also, but a very tall being blocked my path and I started to cry because the side I was on was really horrible but the side they were on was a beautiful place, so beautiful, so blue…” [read more]
“…I went back to bed after a short prayer and saw a second dream. This time it was Jesus as I saw him in the Jesus film years ago and I had trashed his video. He was hanging on the cross, the nails were in his hands and feet, yet he was smiling at me and talking to me. Though he was dying he seemed so beautiful. The cross was huge and I seemed like a little boy. My neck was falling back trying to see the whole face of Jesus and suddenly a huge big circle of light came from above the cross and down upon me…” [read more]
“…I was swimming. It was very dark, without any stars in the sky. After swimming for a while, I stopped and looked up at the sky. Suddenly, I saw a star shining. I closed my eyes and made a wish. I said, 'Morning Star, teach me the secret of life'…I kept having this dream for years almost every other month and this pattern continued until a few months after my conversion, when I read Rev. 22:16, which says, 'I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star'…” [read more]
http://isaalmasih.net/isa/dreamsofisa.html
http://prorege-forum.com/messages/406.html
http://www.jesusvisions.com/chapt08.shtmlQuote (Everlasting father Jesus @ Sep. 17 2009,09:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 17 2009,08:41) Hi EF,
So please prove every scripture about his death wrong and then we can move on with you to new pastures?
The Koran says that they thought they did kill the Christ so the scriptures of the NT would not be “wrong” they would be mistaken.Jesus told his disciples that the sickness of Lazarus was not unto death and he was mistaken as he himself later said Lazarus is dead
Yes EFJ, they DID think they had killed the Christ, but they HADNT because he was RISEN again By the Father! Though they killed his body they didnt kill him for good because God raised his body up again!This is how they were fooled into believing Jesus was killed but it didnt work, because God raised him up again.
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