The Beast of Revelation

Participant

Before Time… Greetings!

Again, you seem to have missed something in what the Scriptures are saying:

Your remarks: “God never intended for Christ to rule the earth's affairs. Matter a fact this is exactly what Satan offered Him.”

Matthew 4:8-9 (New American Standard Bible)
“Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, ‘All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.’”

Satan offered Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world” which Jesus knew would be eventually brought to nothing by Himself and the angelic armies of heaven, as Revelation 19:13-14 states clearly. What would Jesus want with a temporary world rulership when He had an everlasting Kingdom awaiting Him:

Daniel 2:44 (Darby Translation)
“And in the days of these kings shall the God of the heavens set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the sovereignty thereof shall not be left to another people: it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, but itself shall stand for ever.”

Revelation 11:15 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.’”

Eph. 6:12-17 tells us that our “struggle is not against flesh and blood” and is, in fact, a fight against “spiritual forces of wickedness in heavenly places” which, according to verse 17, we fight with “the sword of Spirit, which is the word of God.” This denotes a Christian’s fight is focused around defense of Truth, exposing those that present doctrine of demons as God’s Word. (1Timothy 4”1-3) But, BT, that doesn’t mean this system will continue on forever nor that God and His Son will never rid the earth (world) of wickedness. God’s Word is true! See what God’s intention is:

Revelation 11:18 (Darby Translation)
“And the nations have been full of wrath, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the recompense to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to those who fear thy name, small and great; and to destroy those that destroy the earth.”

After that Day of Wrath (Revelation 16:16; 19:11-21) Jesus and the elect or chosen ones will rule this earth (world) for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6), as it is written. There will no longer be Scripture-twisters bent of deceiving others, nor wars to mar the tranquility of the new World under the Kingdom of God and His Son. (Revelation 21:7-8; 26-27)

There is no escaping the end of this system that is coming by negating the Word of God by limiting the Day of Wrath to merely a spiritual condition. “Like in Noah’s Day” or Sodom and Gomorrah in Lot’s Day… these were not merely allegory. The rain did flood the earth wiping out the mass of humanity then in existence; fire and brimstone did rain down on Sodom and Gomorrah and destroyed them all. BT! What God says about the upcoming destruction of the wicked and ungodly of this world WILL take place.

Sam

August 16, 2008 at 10:18 am#101646

Participant

Georg… Greetings!

I have understood things a little differently than what you are presenting here. The Scriptures do not portray the Papacy as either beast; the Popes are merely the integral part of Babylon the Great, the Harlot and mother of the harlots. (Revelation 17:5)

As for the beasts (both), they symbolize certain elements of mankind. Take the beast from the “sea” (Revelation 13:1) for example. As the Scripture tells us:

Isaiah 17:12 (Darby Translation)
“Ha! a tumult of many peoples! they make a noise as the noise of the seas; — and the rushing of nations! they rush as the rushing of mighty waters.”

The first beast, the one from the sea, rises from the restless waters (many peoples) that form the world order, government, world power. The second beast rises from the stable and peaceful element of humanity (the lamb), but speaks like a “dragon.” The dragon, as you are aware, is Satan as Revelation 12:9; 20:2 gives evidence, and it‘s that “dragon” that gives “his power and his throne and great authority” to both beasts. (Revelation 13:2)

Obviously, then, the beasts of Revelation represent political elements, not religious.

Sam

August 16, 2008 at 12:15 pm#101648

Participant

Hi Sam

Beasts are kingdoms/governments, or political elements as you put it.
Daniel saw four of those beast rise up out of the sea. The Sea symbolizing all the other
kingdoms/nation/governments. Kings used to enlarge their territory by force, that's why they are
given beastly names.
Earth on the other hand symbolizes people being ruled over by these beasts/governments.
This other beast coming out of the earth, Rev. 13:11, was in fact no king, but he was the little horn
mentioned in Dan. 7:8. Horn is symbolic for one that has power, like a king.
As the “little horn” indicates, he had a small beginning, also, showing him come up on the Roman head,
Dan. 7:7, tells us he had his beginning during the Roman empire.
He is the one that made war with the saints and over came them, killed them, Dan. 7:21 and
Rev. 13:7.
He eventually took over ruling the western part of the Roman empire after Justinian died in A.D.565.
He, the pope, became the image of the beast/Rome, Rev. 13:12,14.
Because he claimed to be the “Vicar” of the son of God, and people feared him because of their
superstition, he was able to rule not only over the people, but over kings as well.
His power grew, til eventually he ruled over the entire Christian world, Rev. 13:7.
No, he was, and he is no king, and Napoleon proved to the world that he had no power either,
Dan. 11:36.

Georg

August 17, 2008 at 11:34 am#101874

Participant

Georg… Greetings!

As I read through your post and check out the Scriptures that you use to support your position, I find problems that require addressing. You say, “Daniel saw four of those beast rise up out of the sea.”

However, according to the Scripture, the four beasts arise from the earth; see for yourself:

Daniel 7:17 (New American Standard Bible)
“These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.”

If we look closely at this (and others) Scripture we see that the “four kings” are indeed kingdoms, much like the “ten kings” mentioned in Revelation 17:12. Look, too, at this passage:
Daniel 8:21 (Darby Translation)
“And the rough goat is the king of Greece; and the great horn that was between his eyes is the first king.”

Now, if we consider your comment: “Dan. 7:7, tells us he had his beginning during the Roman empire.”

Think about the way governments operate today. They have an elected Senate, a Presiding Officer (President or Prime Minister), and not much different than ancient Rome. In fact, all we do in government emulates the Roman Parliamentary System. In short, we stem from that source. Each world power has borrowed something from the preceding one, hence, the Scripture can truthfully say:

Revelation 17:11 (New American Standard Bible)
“The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.”

Of particular interest, however, is the following verse:

Revelation 17:13,16 (New American Standard Bible)
“These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast… And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.”

The Scripture points to the time when these “ten kings… and the beast” turn against Babylon the Great and utterly destroy her.

But to mix Babylon the Great (The mother of Harlots and of the abominations of the earth Revelation 17:5) with political/military world powers is out of sync with Scripture. As we have read, it’s the “ten kings… and the beast” that join forces to destroy her, therefore, the great Harlot is not itself a kingdom, but in fact, is seen “sitting on a scarlet beast.”

This next passage depicts this great Harlot in detail:

Revelation 18:7 (New American Standard Bible)
“To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.’”

Does this not adequately describe the Papacy? She sits on the kings of the earth and lives in luxury. Even her daughter, the British Empire under Henry the Eighth was merely an extension of the great harlot. And if we look further throughout history, all the other break-away groups that promote the same false doctrines (the abominations of the earth) are no more than daughters of the great Harlot, Babylon the Great.

As the Scriptures bring out, Christendom itself is the Great Harlot of Revelation; by her actions over the centuries and by her false doctrines, she captures her victims and keeps them chained to her lies by fear and her charm. Revelation 18:4 warns those within her power to “come out of her my people.”

The real question of the day should be: If Christendom is Babylon the Great, where is the true Church? Do you know?

Sam

August 17, 2008 at 4:38 pm#101880

Participant

Hi Samual

Dan. 7:17 are the same kings described as beasts in verses 4, 5, 6, and 7. And no, I did not say sea, the bible does.
Sea is a metaphor for nations, and earth is a metaphor for people; after all, are not nations made up of people?
The little horn had nothing to do with the political government, that is why he did not come into power until Justinian had died; the last emperor of the east and the west.
I will stop here, because you are to confusing for me to follow you.
Please be more specific in you question.

Georg

August 18, 2008 at 9:48 am#101982

Participant

Georg… Greetings!

You said: “Dan. 7:17 are the same kings described as beasts in verses 4, 5, 6, and 7. And no, I did not say sea, the bible does.
Sea is a metaphor for nations, and earth is a metaphor for people; after all, are not nations made up of people?”
Unless you missed the point I was drawing your attention to, please look again at the Scripture I made reference to:

Daniel 7:17 (New American Standard Bible)
“These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.”

As you can see, Daniel 7:17 does not say the beasts arise from the “sea” but from the “earth.” Only in Revelation 13:1 where the first beast is portrayed as “coming up out of the sea.”

Please don’t misunderstand me; I agree with your conclusion that the first beast in Revelation 13:1 arises from the restless sea of humanity, and I am certain that I have made that reference earlier in this discussion. Where I do disagree with you is when you connect “horns” with religion such as the Papacy. If you recheck the Scripture that indicates difference, you can see it refers to “kingdoms” albeit a small upstart kingdom.

Daniel 8:21 (Darby Translation)
“And the rough goat is the king of Greece; and the great horn that was between his eyes is the first king.”

Also of importance in identifying these “horns” as kings and not religion, is the following Scriptures:

Daniel 8:20-22 (New American Standard Bible)
“The ram which you saw with the two horns represents the kings of Media and Persia. The shaggy goat represents the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king. The broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from his nation, although not with his power.”
(also read through verses 23-26)

As for your comment: “The little horn had nothing to do with the political government, that is why he did not come into power until Justinian had died; the last emperor of the east and the west.” I fail to see the connection to the “time of the end” or the “appointed time.” (Daniel 8:17,19) The “end” has not arrived yet.

My question to you was not mystic. I merely asked you if you knew where the True Christians (not Christendom) are located in this time and age. You can get a hint if you see the words of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 13:24-30; 37-43

God bless!

Sam

[/U]

August 18, 2008 at 11:57 am#101993

Participant

Sam

In short true Christians remain in the mind of God for the time begin, because we look at the outward showing of humanity; he sees the heart. The body of Christ are those on earth who believe everything Jesus said about Himself and His Father are true, and try to do the will of God. That is present tense and reality, not an analogy.

The beast of Revelation specify speaking and the Rome generically speaking, depending on the context sounding this wild creature or monsters in the first century. John is writing to those who understood his letter of Revelation and telling them the time was near for the events within it to happen. Rev. 1:1, 3.

The letter is also John version of the Olivet discourse in Matt. 24 Mark 13 and Luke 21. He gives this discourse in signs and shows John much of the details surrounding it. The letter of Revelations was written somewhere around 66 AD, and there is internal evidence to prove it. Where as the 95 AD concept has none! Research from another perspective will guide you to truths not spoken about these days. Well maybe here to some small degree.

Before Time

August 18, 2008 at 1:09 pm#101999

Participant

Hi Samual

I just want to clear up the scripture you referring too, Dan. 7:17.
Dan. 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
v. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Dan. 7:17 merely explains what these four beasts are, four kings, or four kingdoms.

Horns stand for power, for rulers, for kings. The little horn, the pope, was no king, but he had power and he ruled like a king.
The horn on the goat is Alexander the great, when it was broken, when Alexander died, four horns came up in his stead; they represent the four kingdoms Alexanders empire was divided into.
The appointed time referrs to the king of the north. It refers to the invasion of Egypt, the king of the south, by Napoleon in 1789, the appointed time.
It all depends on what you consider the end time is.
The true Christian are those that believe the word of God, not the doctrines of man, or tares.

Georg

August 18, 2008 at 3:40 pm#102014

Participant

some correction can someone tell me how to modify a post thanks before time

In short true Christians remain in the mind of God for the time being, because we look at the outward showing of humanity; he sees the heart. The body of Christ are those on earth who believe everything Jesus said about Himself and His Father are true, and try to do the will of God. That is present tense and reality, not an analogy.

The beast of Revelation specify speaking Nero and the Rome generically speaking, depending on the context sounding this wild creature or monsters in the first century. John is writing to those who understood his letter of Revelation and telling them the time was near for the events within it to happen. Rev. 1:1, 3.

Before Time

August 19, 2008 at 9:25 am#102148

Participant

BT… Greetings!

Okay… where is this internal evidence you speak of that places “all things” were fulfilled in 70CE? I think we've hashed this over many times but you still insist on your view being correct. Also, where is the evidence that proves the Revelation Account was written before 96-98CE? This I want to see.

Sam

August 19, 2008 at 9:50 am#102152

Participant

Georg… Greetings!

We appear to be faced with a confusing situation here; you are making reference to Daniel 7:2 where it does indeed say the “four great beasts were coming up from the sea”, this in direct conflict with Daniel 7:17 which states that “These great beasts, which are four in number, who will arise from the earth.”

But the answer appears to be found in what is taking place at that time. In the reference to the four great beasts in Daniel 7:2 we understand that this “vision” is that of “Belshazzar king of Babylon” who sees the entire world as a “sea.” But the interpretaion of the dream he had was given to Daniel (Daniel 7:16) was that of these “four kings” arising from “the earth” and not the sea. (Daniel 7:17)

The key to understanding this scenario is found in verse 18 of Daniel 7, where the result was that “the saints of the Highest One will receive the kingdon and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come.” (also verses 21-22, 26-27)

In all of these beasts there is no connection to religion other than the beasts wearing down the saints (verse 25) until their “dominions” over the earth is removed by God Almighty as is stated. Again, I find no inference that the Papacy is involved here.

Sam

August 19, 2008 at 10:56 am#102158

Participant

Hi Samual

These four beasts in Dan. 7:3, are in fact the same four kingdoms as in the statue of metals, Dan. 2:32-33.
Yes, verse 17 does explains it, what other four beasts are there except the four beasts from
verses 4-7? They are the four empires starting with,
Babylon, head of gold and the lion.
Medo-Persia, arms and chest of silver and the bear.
Greece, belly and thigh of bronze and the leopard.
Rome, legs of iron and the great and terrible beast.
They are all the same kingdoms, arise out of the earth simply means, from among the people. People make up nations.
Verse 18 is speaking of the time when Christ will rule this earth with all his saints, just as you read in Dan. 2:44, God's kingdom will stand forever.
The little horn did make war with the saints, read about the history of the Catholic Church, how they persecuted, tortured and killed all that would not except their doctrine. The pope was no different than any other worldly ruler, he wanted to rule the world like the Romans did, that is why he is called the image, only he tried it with deceit and with the superstition of the people, making them believe he had the power of God.
God said he would rule for 1260 years, verse 25.
It is not the beasts that are wearing down the saints, it is this little horn, the pope.

Georg

PS. check out Google “the popes inquisition”

August 19, 2008 at 1:59 pm#102160

Participant

Good Moring Sam

If you saw it before without a response, I doubt you will not again. Take your time to do your own research as I if you’re searching for truth. I looked at both sides of the issue have you? It may not be easy to accept the early date view after all these years, so I will understand a none reply. Start with the seven kings in Revelation chapter 17 and find out who the one who “ now is” “who has fallen” and who will reign for a “short while”

9″This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Your brother

Before Time

August 21, 2008 at 11:45 am#102403

Participant

Georg… Greetings!

I am well aware of the popes inquisition and the horror committed against any that disagreed with Catholic Doctrine; however, the very fact that the line of popes still exist conflicts with Daniel 7:26-27 as it plainly states:

Daniel 7:26-27 (New American Standard Bible)
“But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.”

Reasoning from these verses we see that the Papacy still exists and still retains much influence throughout the world. It has not been “annihilated and destroyed forever.” Also of consideration is the fact that “the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven” has NOT YET been given to “the people of the saints of the Highest One.” Therefore, my conclusion differs from yours regarding the identity of the “little horn.”

As I have stated, with Scriptural support, “horns” represent “kings” and not religion. The Catholic Church’s history of atrocities against the Christians in disagreement is no more outrageous than was the Romans when they were feeding believers to the lions in the Colosseum. Religion is not identified as the “little horn” as I see it.

What I do detect, I believe, is that you have studied C.T. Russell’s work where he has Napoleon belittling the Catholic Church in fulfillment of Bible Prophecy. Belittling is not even close to destroying forever as Daniel 7:26 describes. Also worth your consideration is that Russell died a year before the Russian Revolution and likely would have connected that event to Scriptural fulfillment, too. But the final days were decades ahead of Russell.

This “little horn” arises in our time, and I believe, as Daniel 7:21-25 relates, the fact that this last kingdom “will be different from all the other kingdoms” suggests a sudden shift in world power, as possibly in Democracy being removed and Communism taking over. There is valid reason for this probability, and that is found in Revelation 13:1-18, specifically, verses 16 & 17. It comes down to two world powers that struggle for world domination. (King of North and South Daniel 11) In the final time, however, one “king” gains control and forces the other kingdoms to accomplish what no kingdom before was able to do: Destroy Babylon the Great (Christendom). (Revelation 17:16-17) We know that the destruction of the Great Harlot is not welcomed by all the kings of the earth as Revelation 18:9-19 makes clear. Therefore, it is by the “beast… the eighth king” (Revelation 17:11) that her total destruction takes place.

Reason dictates that the forces that destroy Babylon the Great will unlikely be our Democratic World; their infinity with religion is far to entrenched to be easily altered, hence, a world power (a godless government, anti-religious) must gain superiority over the world military forces and force subservient kings or governments to comply with their desire to dispose of all divisive forces (religion), and that will be the beginning of the great tribulation for true Christians.

Your not going to buy into this, I know. But time will prove Truth from fiction.

Sam

August 21, 2008 at 12:07 pm#102404

Participant

Before Time… Greetings!

I guess that’s why you designate yourself as before time; you are stuck back in the first century and cannot see into the future.

As admitted many times before, some things stated by Jesus and John’s account in Revelation DID relate to the first Century. But not all! The Day of God’s wrath (Revelation 16:13-16) has not happened. Satan has not yet been abyssed. (Revelation 20:1-3) The eighth king (the beast) has not yet forced his subjects to receive the “mark of the beast” or be killed. (Revelation 13:15-17) And God’s Kingdom by Christ Jesus and the chosen ones has not yet taken control of Earth’s affairs. (Revelation 20:4-6)

I DO “search for truth” as you say you do. But until you understand the importance of the above mentioned Scriptures and their relationship to the present time, you will not be able to acknowledge truth when you hear or read it.

Sam

August 21, 2008 at 1:23 pm#102406

Participant

Good Morning

As I said you unanswered my question, and just posed another one I answered for you before. 1 Peter 3:15 I understand! Look at the last post again and give it your best shot the question is there. And don’t get grumpy it’s only a debate.

God Bless

August 23, 2008 at 12:05 pm#102747

Participant

Quote (before Time @ Aug. 20 2008,01:59)

Good Moring Sam

Your brother

Before Time

Before Time… Greetings!

I am not grumpy… at least, not very often. However, I do become rather intense when attempting to defend God's Word with those that contradict. As you say, it's only a debate so I'll try to tone down my tone… a bit. Ha!

Okay, if I understand your “question” correctly, this is what you have requested an answer to: “Who is the eighth king that rises from the seven?

Roman World Power was the “one that is” but the one that “is to come” in my opinion, has not yet surfaced. The reason I say this is because we are still basically following the Roman Political System, a spin-off from Roman to British to what we have today in the Democratic World. The one that rises from the seven is anti-religious and destroys Babylon the Great and places itself above every god and forces the subjected kingdoms to act out their desire to free this world of devisive elements, which as you are well aware, religion tops the list.

Who will that be? Take your pick! Is it China? How about Russia? What about North Korea? What about all of these combined? Let me know your thoughts!

Sam

August 24, 2008 at 3:22 pm#102785

Participant

Good Morning Sam

The late date view of Revelation is the most popular, but so is the trinity. This comes from tradition past from one generation to another as you well know. How many people research the text of the late date conclusion, few.

Many take without due consideration the early date devoid of any thought of Christ’s reputation. Case in point is Caiaphas. “Matt 26: 64 Jesus said to him, ” You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.” NASU

Caiaphas is long gone and the generation he lived-in. Did he see Christ come on clouds in power fulfilling Daniels’ prophecy in AD 70 as the Roman armies surrounded and sacked the temple? Matt. 24:2 Luke 21:20 Isa 19:1 Dan. 7:13 If this interpretation is the correct one and Caiaphas did see it with eye’s of understanding in that generation then Christ proved a true Prophet the Son of Man, “the Son of God”. John 10:37. In other words Sam Christ told Caiaphas “You will see me vindicated.”

Rev 17:10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. NASU
Julius Caesar, 49-44 BC Augustus, 31 BC-14 AD Tiberius, 14-37 Caligula, 37-41 Claudius, 41-54 Nero, 54-68 Galba, 68-69

The five fallen were dead and the one who is, is Nero, and Galba reigned for a short time. If this interpretation is correct then Nero (one is) lived when John penned Revelation. I consider Nero the beast of Revelation specifically speaking. “The seven mountains Refer, undoubtedly, to Rome-the seven-hilled city-Septicollis Roma.” Rev 17:9 A good study into the life of Nero will make him a good candidate for the beast, he was on hell of a monster with beastly characteristics.

I was just kidding about the grumpiness quote your love for God and truth is well seen.

August 25, 2008 at 11:11 am#102863

Participant

Before Time… Greetings!

As you say, BT, “Caiaphas ‘You will see me vindicated.’” in all likelihood did recognize that the Roman Army was dispensing Divine Justice on Jerusalem at that time; very likely he was well aware by then of the prophecy given by Jesus of Jerusalem’s destruction. And it is most likely that he saw this through eyes of “discernment” rather than actually seeing Jesus “coming in the “clouds” as was prophesied. So did many others, I am certain. Perhaps they were connecting “clouds” with the swarms of Roman soldiers that swept over the hills and valleys around the city at that moment.

Your dates of the Roman rulers, however, doesn’t fit in with the dates given by historians as to when John penned Revelation. They have the date of John’s writing as between 96 -98CE. And even though there were important facts excluded by John that we believe should have been at least mentioned, (I’m speaking about the fall of Jerusalem) it doesn’t make the account timing invalid, in my opinion.

But let’s look at the Scripture that you have considered:

Revelation 17:10 (New American Standard Bible)
“…and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.”

You connect this verse with the following Roman rulers:

“Julius Caesar, 49-44 BC Augustus, 31 BC-14 AD Tiberius, 14-37 Caligula, 37-41 Claudius, 41-54 Nero, 54-68 Galba, 68-69”

I am not questioning the accuracy of your dates for these rulers, but I do wonder how you explain the following verses:

Revelation 17:12-13 (New American Standard Bible)
“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.”

If you consider “the beast” as being “Nero” who, then, are these “ten kings” that receive “authority” for “one hour” and that “give their power and authority to the beast?” The Scripture says that these “ten kings” receive authority; who gave them that authority? It doesn’t appear to have been the Roman rulers, as I see it. More likely it was the allowance given them by God Almighty, seeing that it was His will that they accomplish that “one purpose” as Revelation 17:17 makes very clear.

And if we were to conclude as you do, BT, then we would have to accept Ancient Jerusalem as being Babylon the Great, that she was destroyed in 70CE, by the Battle between God and man (Armageddon) and that being restricted to the Israelite Nation. That being said, then, there is nothing left to take place in the future. We would have to conclude, also, that Satan has been abyssed for a thousand years and world-wide peace on earth is now being enjoyed by all.

What’s wrong with that picture, BT? Have the wicked and ungodly been removed? Has the resurrection of the dead begun? If so, I missed it. Do let me know your thoughts.

Sam

August 26, 2008 at 2:38 am#102910