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Quote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 27 2009,02:46) It is a choice for all: If you choose to believe you are in sin and sin even when you don't know you are sinning and don't even know what the sin is then you are in sin. Christ cannot dwell in sin, neither can God abide in sin nor Jesus. If you believe you are in sin after confessing your sin then you have denied that Jesus cleanses you from all unrighteousness.
If you deny that Jesus took your sin then there is no more cleansing avaliable. You have judged yourself and sinful, even when Jesus said that his words are from God and make you clean. You have denied your salvation through Christ and put at naught his works for God.There is no need to wait for a judgment day you have already made the judgment that you are in sin and apart from God. You can't be in sin and be one with God. God has no sin.
Neither God nor Jesus nor the Holy Spirit can come and make their abode in a sin filled person.
There is no sin in Heaven so you can't go there.
You have completely denied the works of Jesus that save us from the sentence of sin.
You have placed your own salvation in the works or acts that you do or don't do right according to yourself and condemned yourself.
You with sin have chosen this path and you don't even know what acts are sin because sin to God is not an act.
You have believed in death and destruction and sin instead of peace, love and joy in the Holy Ghost!! God said I set life and death before you, but choose life that you and your families might live. All sinners have their place. Bless all, TK
Tim Kraft, Do you believe ONCE saved ALWAYS saved, and that it is impossible to backslide, and that the very elect cannot be fooled into untruths? Just wondering.
TK
The choice is to believe the truth or the lie.
Have you never told a lie? if you did, you have sinned.
Have you always shown respect for your parents, and other parents? if you did not, you have sinned.
Have you ever looked at a woman, or a picture of a woman, with lust in your heart? if you did, you have sinned. etc.
What makes you think you're going to heaven, sin or no sin?
You talk about denying the works of Jesus, you don't even understand the works of Jesus.
What you are doing is teaching false doctrine, and may be causing confusion in others, in other words; YOU ARE DOING THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL.
You can arrange the scriptures any way you like, they still say the same.Georg
Hey Con: Adam originally believed he had separated himself from God by the choice he made to believe also in evil! This errant belief was the caused of the sin/separation of mankind from God in the beginning. To me a person comes to God only by faith. By believing that his sin/separation from God has been mended. The sin that separates us from God is not works or things that we do or don't do. The sin that separated man from the beginning was that man
believed he had done wrong in Gods eye's and therfore was separated from or not any more in union with God for what he did. Adam believed incorrectly. He had the right to choose to learn about evil. After he choose to believe in evil he felt fear because he had split his
God into good and evil. In truth there was only good. When he felt fear for the first time, he was fearful of God. He did not ask forgiveness or say he was sorry or ask God for help. You might say cast himself out of the garden or away from Gods presence. He soon began to make up ways to amend
the situation with God by attempting offerings and sacrifices that God never required in the first place. So began the trek of mankind into creating religious service's to appease God (who was not angry). This belief of falling short of God or not being in union with God was a
great mental error or sin of mankind that passed down for generations. As mankind procreated, sin progressed through religion or mans ideas to please God. The sin/error created darkness whereby men stumbled and reeled around like a drunk man. They couldn't find the
light. Jesus came and did away with all the old doctrines and ways or rituals to get to God. Jesus gave us the truth about God which was God dwells in man. There is no separation, ever. There cannot be for God is everywhere. It was all in the mind of man so the truth of God
would enlighten all mankind that would believe in their oneness with God. Sin is obliterated by the truth. The light exposes the darkness. The truth of God has set us free from sin and death. Believing in one again with God reverses the original sin of separation from God and
returns mankind from death to life in Christ. If we believe in good only, we will eventually create the perfection of heaven on earth. No sicknes or disease will stand. The Kingdom of God within each will rule in peace, joy, love, kindness, longsuffering, meekness and
happiness. This is what I believe the scriptures verify. God Bless you, TK
TK
You think maybe it was because God threw him out of the garden, that he thought he done wrong?
I wonder why Jesus said, beware lest “any” man deceive you.
Did you have to apply for that job?Georg
Georg: There you go again. Instead of desiring to learn different or new truth you would rather make smart comments that do nothing creative.
If you would read your Bible you might learn something. Gen:3-22—“and the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil: now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: V23–therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden….
Not because he had done wrong, he chosen a hard way to live. Love does not tell a person what to do as in command. Love will suggest another way to go that might be better or easier but never command. From his choice he now has to live by the sweat of his face.
v3:17 the Lord God said, because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of THY WIFE (not the devil) and hast eaten from the tree…
….cursed is the ground for your sake (or because of you). The lord God did not curse the ground, it was cursed by Adam. TKQuote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 28 2009,01:35) Hey Con: Adam originally believed he had separated himself from God by the choice he made to believe also in evil! This errant belief was the caused of the sin/separation of mankind from God in the beginning. To me a person comes to God only by faith. By believing that his sin/separation from God has been mended. The sin that separates us from God is not works or things that we do or don't do. The sin that separated man from the beginning was that man believed he had done wrong in Gods eye's and therfore was separated from or not any more in union with God for what he did. Adam believed incorrectly. He had the right to choose to learn about evil. After he choose to believe in evil he felt fear because he had split his
God into good and evil. In truth there was only good. When he felt fear for the first time, he was fearful of God. He did not ask forgiveness or say he was sorry or ask God for help. You might say cast himself out of the garden or away from Gods presence. He soon began to make up ways to amend
the situation with God by attempting offerings and sacrifices that God never required in the first place. So began the trek of mankind into creating religious service's to appease God (who was not angry). This belief of falling short of God or not being in union with God was a
great mental error or sin of mankind that passed down for generations. As mankind procreated, sin progressed through religion or mans ideas to please God. The sin/error created darkness whereby men stumbled and reeled around like a drunk man. They couldn't find the
light. Jesus came and did away with all the old doctrines and ways or rituals to get to God. Jesus gave us the truth about God which was God dwells in man. There is no separation, ever. There cannot be for God is everywhere. It was all in the mind of man so the truth of God
would enlighten all mankind that would believe in their oneness with God. Sin is obliterated by the truth. The light exposes the darkness. The truth of God has set us free from sin and death. Believing in one again with God reverses the original sin of separation from God and
returns mankind from death to life in Christ. If we believe in good only, we will eventually create the perfection of heaven on earth. No sicknes or disease will stand. The Kingdom of God within each will rule in peace, joy, love, kindness, longsuffering, meekness and
happiness. This is what I believe the scriptures verify. God Bless you, TK
Quote Adam originally believed he had separated himself from God by the choice he made to believe also in evil! This errant belief was the caused of the sin/separation of mankind from God in the beginning. Adam never believed he was “seperated” from God. This can easily be known from the fact that we see God interacting with Adam and his family in the scene of cain and Abel.
Quote Adam believed incorrectly. He had the right to choose to learn about evil. After he choose to believe in evil he felt fear because he had split his Adam believed correctly and did do wrong. However he thought it would be the end of his life. God punished them but did not kill them nor seperate from them he showed them mercy and compassion but did show them the result of their choice.
We know God did not seperate from man ever we see this clearly by the birth and life of Enoch who walked with God in union until God took him.
Quote When he felt fear for the first time, he was fearful of God. He did not ask forgiveness or say he was sorry or ask God for help. The Quran explains: (1) Then learnt adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
( Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #37)Quote He soon began to make up ways to amend
the situation with God by attempting offerings and sacrifices that God never required in the first place.True, but although not required it taught them to give instead of take which is what the did with the tree(they took what was not theirs) The remedy for coveting is often to give charity.
Quote The Kingdom of God within each will rule in peace, joy, love, kindness, longsuffering, meekness and happiness. This is what I believe the scriptures verify I responded only to comment on my understanding of certain things not to oppose. It was a really great post.
God Bless, you and yours!
hi tk
I got a question for you;you quote Gen 3;22,and it said 'the lord said look man as become as one of us knowing goog and evil'
who is the one speaking ?
is it an angel?
is it the word ?
is it GOD ?Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2009,15:15) hi tk
I got a question for you;you quote Gen 3;22,and it said 'the lord said look man as become as one of us knowing goog and evil'
who is the one speaking ?
is it an angel?
is it the word ?
is it GOD ?
It certainly wasn't JesusQuote (banana @ Nov. 29 2009,12:01) TK, did you ever try out for a magician job.
Your twisting of scripture is ridiculous.Georg
Georg: God bless you Georg, we do know who the accusor of the bretherin is! TKQuote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 27 2009,17:46) Blue Letter Bible:
Dictionary Results for “Forgiveness of Sin”:
Easton's Bible Dictionary:Forgiveness of Sin:
One of the constituent parts of justification.
In pardoning sin, 'Elohim absolves the sinner from the condemnation of the law, and that on account of the work of the Messiah, i.e., he removes the guilt of sin, or the sinner's actual liability to eternal wrath on account of it.
All sins are forgiven freely (Act 5:31; 13:38; 1Jo 1:6-9).
The sinner is by this act of grace for ever freed from the guilt and penalty of his sins.
This is the peculiar prerogative of 'Elohim (Psa 130:4; Mar 2:5).
It is offered to all in the gospel.
Blue Letter Bible:
Dictionary Results for “Justification”:
Easton's Bible Dictionary:Justification:
A forensic term, opposed to condemnation.
As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of 'Elohim, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in the Messiah, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands.
In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified.
It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign.
The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom 5:1-10).
It proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by 'Elohim himself of the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and Surety, Yeshua HaMoshiach (Rom 10:3-9).
Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and for ever satisfies the law, namely,
The Messiah's righteousness (2Cr 5:21; Rom 4:6-8).
The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Yeshua HaMoshiach.
Faith is called a “condition,” not because it possesses any merit, but only because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul appropriates or apprehends Yeshua HaMoshiach and his righteousness (Rom 1:17; 3:25,26; 4:20,22; Phl 3:8-11; Gal 2:16).
The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of justification by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom 6:2-7).
Good works, while not the ground, are the certain consequence of justification (6:14; 7:6).
Pretty simple.
Hey Con: Thank you for all the work and answers. Yet I gotta know, when you got to the part on forgiveness of sin I see that we are absolved from the condemnation of the law.(I don't believe we are under the law) Then the Messiah removes the guilt of sin and the liability to wrath—Then the sinner by grace is free from guilt and penalty of his sins—All sins are forgiven freely—-And it is offered to all in the gospel.
If these things are true, and I believe they are, then would one be wrong in saying I have no sin? If Im forgiven then sin is gone. Some say then you sin again. Now one must be referring to actions or works or deeds as sin, could you list those for me so I know what not to do?
Then please tell me this, if you come to God or your connection to God is by faith, righteousness is by faith, then how can you fall away from God by works? Bless you, TKTK
Pay attention to what it says, “you are freed from your sins”, nowhere does it say, “you are freed from sinning”.
Btw, did you know, the pope goes to confession every day? and they call him the “holy” father.
Georg
hi all
you dont read; there was Abel aprove by God but killed by is brother,there was Enoch who God at to shortned is live,there was Noha,
who God saved from the flood, i agree it isn manyhi
by not produsing fruit that saves you,like doing God s will ,and obey Christ,Love God with all your heart and strenght ,and love your fellow men as you self,
those two resume of the requirement from God, incompases anything that you can dream of that you should do or not do.Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2009,17:08) hi all
you dont read; there was Abel aprove by God but killed by is brother,there was Enoch who God at to shortned is live,there was Noha,
who God saved from the flood, i agree it isn manyterraricca
Now where does this fit in?
Georg
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 01 2009,03:17) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 27 2009,17:46) Blue Letter Bible:
Dictionary Results for “Forgiveness of Sin”:
Easton's Bible Dictionary:Forgiveness of Sin:
One of the constituent parts of justification.
In pardoning sin, 'Elohim absolves the sinner from the condemnation of the law, and that on account of the work of the Messiah, i.e., he removes the guilt of sin, or the sinner's actual liability to eternal wrath on account of it.
All sins are forgiven freely (Act 5:31; 13:38; 1Jo 1:6-9).
The sinner is by this act of grace for ever freed from the guilt and penalty of his sins.
This is the peculiar prerogative of 'Elohim (Psa 130:4; Mar 2:5).
It is offered to all in the gospel.
Blue Letter Bible:
Dictionary Results for “Justification”:
Easton's Bible Dictionary:Justification:
A forensic term, opposed to condemnation.
As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of 'Elohim, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in the Messiah, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands.
In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified.
It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign.
The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom 5:1-10).
It proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by 'Elohim himself of the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and Surety, Yeshua HaMoshiach (Rom 10:3-9).
Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and for ever satisfies the law, namely,
The Messiah's righteousness (2Cr 5:21; Rom 4:6-8).
The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Yeshua HaMoshiach.
Faith is called a “condition,” not because it possesses any merit, but only because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul appropriates or apprehends Yeshua HaMoshiach and his righteousness (Rom 1:17; 3:25,26; 4:20,22; Phl 3:8-11; Gal 2:16).
The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of justification by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom 6:2-7).
Good works, while not the ground, are the certain consequence of justification (6:14; 7:6).
Pretty simple.
Hey Con: Thank you for all the work and answers. Yet I gotta know, when you got to the part on forgiveness of sin I see that we are absolved from the condemnation of the law.(I don't believe we are under the law) Then the Messiah removes the guilt of sin and the liability to wrath—Then the sinner by grace is free from guilt and penalty of his sins—All sins are forgiven freely—-And it is offered to all in the gospel.
If these things are true, and I believe they are, then would one be wrong in saying I have no sin? If Im forgiven then sin is gone. Some say then you sin again. Now one must be referring to actions or works or deeds as sin, could you list those for me so I know what not to do?
Then please tell me this, if you come to God or your connection to God is by faith, righteousness is by faith, then how can you fall away from God by works? Bless you, TK
Banana has a point, when you confess your sins you are totally forgiven. But not against future trespasses.Look at the verses of Yeshua HaMoshiach when he tells numerous folks to “go and sin no more”, apparently sin still lies at the door awaiting for someone to open it. But if you have on the armor of 'elohim 24/7 then sin can be held back.
People do back slide, that does not mean they were never saved, that does not mean they never loved 'elohim. It means the sinned. And sin is transgression of the law.
To walk in the Messiah you walk in the fruits of the law, not to walk in the Messiah is to walk in iniquity and condemnation of the law.
To be under the law is to be condemned by it, to be in the Messiah the law is not your Master anymore, the Jews had no master but the law, to guide, now they have Yeshua HaMashiach. Yeshua teachs how to uphold the law and not be under it (it's curse). All this is done through LOVE.
Quote (banana @ Dec. 02 2009,02:50) TK Pay attention to what it says, “you are freed from your sins”, nowhere does it say, “you are freed from sinning”.
Btw, did you know, the pope goes to confession every day? and they call him the “holy” father.
Georg
Georg: I couldn't care less what the pope does (as long as he is not molesting children)!I used to believe that early in the morning I would ask forgiveness of sin (if I had sinned)!
Then I began to ask over and over, time after time for forgiveness so as not to be in sin.
The religious world will tell you you sin even when you don't know. That is a lie.
When you find out what sin is you will find that you are not in sin anymore!! TK
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2009,22:17) hi
by not produsing fruit that saves you,like doing God s will ,and obey Christ,Love God with all your heart and strenght ,and love your fellow men as you self,
those two resume of the requirement from God, incompases anything that you can dream of that you should do or not do.
What is 'Elohim's “WILL”, and how do you “OBEY” Yeshua HaMoshiach?
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