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Hi Is.1.18,
Strong words brother but I think you should review them in the light of what is the truth here.Who is the Lord of hosts? The hosts are the armies of heavenly angels. If you check your concordance will see it is one of the commonest references in the Old Testament occurring nearly 300 times. Do you know who it refers to?
2Sam 7.26
” The Lord of hosts is God over Israel”
Ps 84.1
“How lovely is your tabernacle O Lord of hosts! My soul longs, yes even faints for the courts of the Lord; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God…My King and my God, blessed are those who dwell in your house…O Lord God of hosts hear my prayer. Give ear O God of Jacob.,,”Jer 46.25″ The Lord of hosts, the God of Israel..”
It refers to the Father very clearly.
And if you check the other 300 verses I think you may be convinced that this is the King and God who is to be worshipped in Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.
You are mistaken my friend and your insertions of Jesus in those scriptures is incorrect. if you reread it in the knowledge that this speaks of the Father then I believe you will have the understanding God intended.
If I am accused of being a blasphemer then I am in good company. Jesus was too and he said we could expect the same respect as he received. Bless you brother and I am sure we can reason further on these matters.
Quote (Rudy @ April 21 2005,05:09) I disagree, like kind begets like kind. The creation itself declares His handiwork. Jesus Christ is THE Only begotten Son of God. Through Him The Father has redeemed us to himself. We are His (Yeshua's) creation (Coll 1:16). We are not begotten sons of the Father, we have the Spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba Father. Worship the Father, and his Son to the Glory of the Father. It is the Fathers' will, he has put all created things under His subjection. He sits at the right hand of the Father by the will of the Father over their creation. All power has been given unto Him. All will bow down to Him. It is the will of the Father.
Are you willing to subject yourself to Him who has received all power and judgement from the Father? Are you prepared to bow before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
Do you deny the majesty and deity of the Almighty on the right Hand of the Father?
Rev 2:23 And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.
Will you minimize the fact that the Father does all things through Christ, and it is He who will judge all mankind?
You say:
“If deities or gods are those who are greater than man then the Son of God is the greatest of them. But if deities are those we should worship there is only the Father that should be worshipped.”
By this saying I understand you to minimize the deity of Christ.
Hi Rudy,
You still do not understand that the saved are in Christ do you?Coll 3.1f
Therefore IF YOU HAVE BEEN RAISED UP WITH CHRIST KEEP SEEKING THE THINGS ABOVE, WHERE CHRIST IS seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. FOR YOU HAVE DIED , AND YOUR LIFE IS HIDDEN WITH CHRIST IN GOD. When Christ who is our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory”Think about it Rudy.
Yeshua is “Emmanuel”, God with us. He WILL sit in the 3rd Temple and reign in the Millenium.
The anti-christ is the abomination that exalts itself above God:
2 Thessalonians 2:4 – Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.Then Yeshua will come and destroy him and set up His kingdom, Yeshua will sit in the Temple and all the earth WILL come and Worship the Lord (Yahweh of Hosts). Zechariah 14:16-18
If the blood is not the blood of God, deity, divinity, then it is ordinary and common, if that were true you are dead in your sins, without hope.
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Heb 10:26-31)
You apply the blood of Jesus to yourself when you say, “the blood of Jesus which He shed on the cross was for me, and it makes me free from sin and all unrighteousness.” Overcoming is a continual process in this life. Whatever we apply the blood of Jesus to Satan cannot touch. Whatever we apply the blood to becomes redeemed by Christ, it becomes His. Whatever we apply the blood to is made Holy. When the blood is applied so also is God’s grace and the anointing of the Holy Spirit applied.
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. (Rev 12:10-11)
My earnest prayer is that ALL who read this will repent and give glory, honor, praise, and worship to the Lamb who ALONE by the Power of God redemmed us to Himself!
Mark 1:24 – Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Hi NH,
Quote If I am accused of being a blasphemer then I am in good company. Jesus was too and he said we could expect the same respect as he received. Bless you brother and I am sure we can reason further on these matters.
Strong words? Blasphemer? If you read my post again you will see what I meant. It would be blasphemy of the highest order for all the people of the earth to go up and worship the King, if Jesus is not to be worshipped. Understand?Quote You are mistaken my friend and your insertions of Jesus in those scriptures is incorrect. if you reread it in the knowledge that this speaks of the Father then I believe you will have the understanding God intended. Re Zech 14: If you can provide me with the scriptures that show that God the Father rules from my Zion during the millenium, I will believe you.
Hi Rudy,
I grew up believing in Magic. Catholic magic. I believed that when I received communion at mass I was being saved. I was incorporating more and more of the body and blood of Jesus in me so I was being turned into him.It was so easy and neat and all I had to do was to follow the rules and hey presto. I was in control of my own destiny! It made be smug and superior to other faiths who did not have this magic.
But this ritual you describe applying the blood to save ourselves sounds a little familiar. Say the words and 'kapow' salvation through applying the blood. Did not the saviour say that those who wanted to save themselves would be lost? Sorry but it does not seem to be written that way and seems to lack substance somehow.
It does not seem to relate to the painful death my saviour suffered to enable my salvation and it does not seem to require me to meet with him and thank him for his sacrifice. I sounds a bit like another magic ritualistic formula when I am in control of my own destiny? What do you think?
The sacrifice of the Lamb of God, the greatest and most precious being under God, is extraordinary and not to be diminished by ritual formulas. The salvation he brought has to be sought out and earnestly obtained through our humbly approaching him and entering into his Body on earth through baptism as he showed us. We cannot set up our own path according to intellectual assumptions. That diminishes the saving power of the shedding of that precious blood.
Nothing has changed since Peter addressed the crowds at Pentecost. No new ways have been given us but what he expounded.
The Blood of the Son of God, and not that of God Himself ,was shed for us. Put aside the things of youth and grasp what the Word really teaches Rudy.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2005,20:09) Hi NH, Quote If I am accused of being a blasphemer then I am in good company. Jesus was too and he said we could expect the same respect as he received. Bless you brother and I am sure we can reason further on these matters.
Strong words? Blasphemer? If you read my post again you will see what I meant. It would be blasphemy of the highest order for all the people of the earth to go up and worship the King, if Jesus is not to be worshipped. Understand?Quote You are mistaken my friend and your insertions of Jesus in those scriptures is incorrect. if you reread it in the knowledge that this speaks of the Father then I believe you will have the understanding God intended. Re Zech 14: If you can provide me with the scriptures that show that God the Father rules from my Zion during the millenium, I will believe you.
Hi Is,
I guess on rereading it could mean that.Whew!But you confuse me. You waxed long on how Zechariah said God the Father was coming to stand on earth and rule. Now you say that it is Yeshua who is the King to be worshipped in Zion.
Until you grasp the relationship between the God of all and our Lord you will fall between these two stools. God is the King of kings and Jesus comes in His name to restore and govern that kingdom for Him. When all is complete he gives that kingdom back to the Father.
Yesua and Yahweh are ONE:
Hi Rudy.
My wife and I are one too. Certainly we are in God's eyes. We are not one in many things but God says we are one.Hi Rudy,
I see you have come across the Oneness doctrine. Certainly many resolve some of their confusion by clinging to it. But it does cause a few other issues to arise.
To name just a couple;It means Jesus is NOT who he said he was-the Son of God. It says he is that God.
It means that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh but the Father did. That is the test for antichrist that John gave us so that makes it an antichrist doctrine.
naaah
Who is the Good Shehpard of the Sheep? Who's voice are we to listen to? Who are we to follow? Where does He lead us to Drink?
Should we ask the Shehpard for direction?
Psalms 95: 1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD (Yahweh): let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. 2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms. 3 For the LORD (Yahweh) is a great God, and a great King above all gods. 4 In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also. 5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land. 6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD (Yahweh) our maker. 7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. 10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: 11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
John 10: 11 I (Yeshua) am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
We are Yeshua's Sheep! We are Yahweh's Sheep, Yeshua and Yahweh are ONE!
Did Yeshua not say “I and my Father are ONE”?
Hi Rudy,
Why would you ascribe Psalm 95 to Yahweh? It is about the Father. The shepherd leads us to the Father and not just to himself.Hi Rudy,
He said “I am who am”Jesus said “before Abraham was I am”
Some people assume this is a subtle way of implying those same words. The Jews thought that as in Jn 8 they then picked up stones to kill him for blasphemy. Why did they not really listen to his words more carefully? Why does the same blindness and deafness still exist?Not at all. He is not saying he is his own father. He is stating the plain and obvious teaching shown in The NT. The Jews did not have that advantage so their confusion is understandable – but not ours.
He was begotten from the Father in the beginning as the Logos and thus existed well before Abraham's birth. He is the firstborn Son. All creation, including that of Abraham, came through him. Jesus is the same yesterday,today and forever. That is why he said “I am” instead of “I was”
Another name used by the Father is “the Lord of Hosts”
Is 48.2
” The Lord of hosts is His name”
Is 51.15
” [The Lord of hosts is his name]”
Jer 31.35
” The Lord of hosts is His name”
Jer 32.18
” The Lord of hosts is His name”
Jer 46.18
” As I live' says the King 'whose name is the Lord of hosts…”
Jer 48.15
“..says the King, whose name is the Lord of hosts”
Am 4.13
” .. The Lord God of hosts is His name”
Also Jer 50 34,51.19, 51.57, Am 5.27,So any suggestion the verses in Zech 14.16 refer to anyone but the Father would seem to be out of left field.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Who is the Lord of Hosts?
Hi,
Hebrews also says the angels worship him. He is too Lord of everything under God including Lord of the hosts of heaven. But that is not his name. That is not how he is addressed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2005,00:12) Hi Rudy,
I see you have come across the Oneness doctrine. Certainly many resolve some of their confusion by clinging to it. But it does cause a few other issues to arise.
To name just a couple;It means Jesus is NOT who he said he was-the Son of God. It says he is that God.
It means that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh but the Father did. That is the test for antichrist that John gave us so that makes it an antichrist doctrine.
naaah
You obviously didn't read it.I just wanted to post something of interest, not to necessarily get a response. I have a lot of friends who belong to the UPC churches in my area. They believe in the Oneness concept of God. What is interesting is that they also believe in death as a sleep until the resurrection.
Quote (Rudy @ April 23 2005,12:47) Did Yeshua not say “I and my Father are ONE”?
Hi Rudy,Yes he did say that and he also said that we can be one with each other and with them. The one he talked about is unity which is one in spirit.
Yashua is not Yahweh. He is his son.
People get confused about the Divine and divine nature. Yashua is divine, but he is not the Divine. His nature comes from his father who is the Divine. We too can partake in the divine nature. But we will never be the Divine Almighty.
We need to understand the difference between idenity and nature. The Trinity and Oneness doctrines mix this up.
We must believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. But both doctriens say that God came in the flesh.
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