- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Paul told us to work out OUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling, not the salvation of others. I don't know these peoples heart. I don't know how big the body of Christ is, but, if I cause a brother to stumble, I will be held accountable. We all started this race when we bowed our knee and repented. Some move faster than others on the course. But it is God who gives the increase. We each have to choose to Love, not judge. Believe the best, trust in God, our Father, he IS able!
If you live the life, they'll get thirsty. If you beat the horse, he'll run from you.
Jesus was more upset with the religious leaders who thought they knew it all than with the common sinner. We must do the same and avoid that attitude like the plague. Speak the truth in meekness and love considering yourself, let the Holy Spirit deal with a man's heart.
Sure,
We have to preach the word whether popular or unpopular. The good seed has to be planted but many are already cultivating weeds that the Gardener will pull out. We should not protect the weeds but gently point them out to make room for good seed.Many are building houses without checking the foundation they are building on and using flimsy materials. It is mercy to point to the only site that a house can stand on to survive the storms.
Do you understand where we are coming from?
Quote (Rudy @ April 19 2005,02:46) Paul told us to work out OUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling, not the salvation of others. I don't know these peoples heart. I don't know how big the body of Christ is, but, if I cause a brother to stumble, I will be held accountable. We all started this race when we bowed our knee and repented. Some move faster than others on the course. But it is God who gives the increase. We each have to choose to Love, not judge. Believe the best, trust in God, our Father, he IS able! If you live the life, they'll get thirsty. If you beat the horse, he'll run from you.
Jesus was more upset with the religious leaders who thought they knew it all than with the common sinner. We must do the same and avoid that attitude like the plague. Speak the truth in meekness and love considering yourself, let the Holy Spirit deal with a man's heart.
Hi,
“Working out our own salvation” is what we do after we are saved and while we await our redeemer. It is the works of the Spirit that God has for us, the light burden to carry. It does not mean to think out how we are to be saved. That is written in the Word as the Way.We are joyfully 'doing time' and making good use of that time to rescue as many others who want to escape the tribulation.
There was one that told Eve that she would not surely die (saved). The doctrine of the devil is at work today as it was then. Its my hope that is none will be deceived by such a doctrine. When Christ comes – His sheep will receive their salvation:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Paul
Hi trettep,
His sheep do not wear sheep's clothing. They do not wrap the wool around themselves and call them selves sheep. They are changed from within to resemble the Lamb of God by the obedience to the command and the work of the Spirit of Christ.
They do not 'unbecome' sheep either except by rejecting the life of Jesus within them themselves.
They are not furthermore suddenly given wool at the return of the redeemer.I have the most awsome priveledge to pray for my brothers in Christ, exhort, provoke to Love, keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. You have this ministry as well.
Show me your faith by your works, live the life, walk the walk. It is our job to be the light, that means walk in love, speak the truth in love. Not question if another's salvation is genuine. I cannot look into the heart of a man, neither can any of you, you can only discern the fruit. At one point in time, your fruit wasn't so healthy either. The Father is the husbandman, every branch that bears fruit he prunes, that it bring forth more fruit. You are trying to judge whether one is grafted in or not. What if you cause him/her to stumble:
Matthew 18:7 – Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
These offences must not come from the body of Christ. Have faith in God, the husbandman! He IS a good father and knows how to take care of his own!
You and I are not the husbandman. We are not the gardener. Our job is to bear fruit and do works meet for repentance. It is the Father's job to save, not yours. You can't change one hair on your head. You cannot make yourself an inch taller. You can't convict the heart of a sinner. You can't draw a man to salvation. You can't establish a man in faith.
You can love! You can exhort! You can edify! You can be an example of righteousness! You can Pray for those around you!
I get the priveledge of watching God work in people's lives, heal marriages, draw people to Christ, transform the broken hearted. You forget, it is NOT your job to teach the world.
John 16:13 – Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
We have one teacher, the Holy Spirit. If a man says he is a christian, confesses Christ before men, witnesses of his faith in God through Christ, studies to show himself approved, endeavors to follow Christ, It is my job and yours, to edify, to build up, to LOVE!
Bringing a man's salvation into question is NOT the job of a “Branch”. To his own master he stands or falls, and God WILL uphold him!
He that seeks finds. He that hungers shall be filled. He that thirsts shall drink of the rivers of Living Water and never thirst again.
You are bringing doubt into the mind of those that name Christ. They get enough of that from the world. They shouldn't get it from their own brothers in Christ! You don't know if they have drunk of the Spirit, their Father in heaven does!
2 Timothy 1:7 – For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2 Thessalonians 3:3 – But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
Just because you say “Jesus is the son of the Living God, that He died on the cross, rose again the third day and ascended to the right hand of the Father so that mankind can receive forgivness of sin.” does not mean you as an individual actually have placed your trust (faith) in that work to escape sin. The doer is justified, not the one that proffesses with lipservice.
We are commanded to flee iniquity, the works of the flesh:
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Matt 22: 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. 41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
Therefore you shall know them by their fruit.
Evangelize the world, love him/her who confesses Christ and build him/her up in faith. If he walks in sin willfully (contrary to sound doctrine – works of the flesh mentioned above in Galatians) then admonish him/her in the spirit of meekness.
They (the world) shall know you by your love one for another, for we have been called to unity! We are instructed to not keep company with those who walk in darkness (wilfull sin).
Galatians 5:15 – But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Hi Rudy,
I agree with all the scriptures you cite, and even with the encouragement, admonishing, exhortation, reminders that we carry ourselves in the manner shown from the scriptures. That goes for all of us all of the time, so I receive that and could certainly use more of that. Thank you. My disagreement with you is therefore not about that.
I disagree with the implication that by having such discussions on the word of God on this forum, we are condemning others.
Acts 18:25: [Apollos]He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and with great enthusiasm he proclaimed and taught correctly the facts about Jesus. However, he knew only the baptism of John.
Acts 18:26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him home with them and expalined to him more correctly the way of God.
Acts:18:27b-28: …When he arrived, he was a great help to those who through God's grace had become believers. For with his strong arguments he defeated the Jews in public debates by proving from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Messiah.
Acts 19:8 Pau went into th synagogue and for 3 months spoke boldly with the people, holding discussions with them and trying to convince them about the Kingdom of God. But some of them were stubborn and would not believe, and before the whole group they said evil things about the way of the Lord. So Paul left them and took the believers with him, and every day he held discussions in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. This went on for two years, so that all the people who lived in the province of Asia, both Jews and Gentiles, heard the word of the Lord.
This is the way I see Heaven Net. It doesn't mean anyone is perfect or a hypocrite. Our experience of one another is forturnately or unfortunately limited to cyberspace and so it is hard to tell who is a doer or a lipservicer. But hopefully, we are all earnest in our devotion and discipleship as servants of Christ.
Hi Cubes,
I agree, however the implication is that “unless you abondon the trinity doctrine your goin' to hell”
Apollos was instructed more acurately, not told he wasn't saved and was therefore following “another Jesus”.
We need to keep these discussions real. Understand the heart of the Lord, putting on Christ is mercy, not condemnation. It is calling those who will, although most won't.
Quote (Rudy @ April 19 2005,18:01) Just because you say “Jesus is the son of the Living God, that He died on the cross, rose again the third day and ascended to the right hand of the Father so that mankind can receive forgivness of sin.” does not mean you as an individual actually have placed your trust (faith) in that work to escape sin. The doer is justified, not the one that proffesses with lipservice. We are commanded to flee iniquity, the works of the flesh:
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Matt 22: 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. 41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
Therefore you shall know them by their fruit.
Evangelize the world, love him/her who confesses Christ and build him/her up in faith. If he walks in sin willfully (contrary to sound doctrine – works of the flesh mentioned above in Galatians) then admonish him/her in the spirit of meekness.
They (the world) shall know you by your love one for another, for we have been called to unity! We are instructed to not keep company with those who walk in darkness (wilfull sin).
Galatians 5:15 – But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Hi Rudy,
I never said that confessing Christ in faith or obedience to the Law saved anyone. That is not the way of salvation taught by Jesus and the apostles is it?You judge our work to be evil? You warn and admonish us to help us. But you say we should not do those things to help others? You must be consistent surely. We show what is written in the Word and that is wrong?
You imply we cannot tell if anyone is saved so we should just encourage them along whichever path they have chosen as all paths are equivalent? I cannot totally agree.
Matt 15.16
” But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart and defile a man”.
What we write is also ,I think, what we would say so we do reveal our basic foundations here.I have a small vineyard and among the vines I have thousands of useless weeds all clamouring to be left alone to produce their fruit. But,though some can get quite impressively big none have yet to produce any useful grapes so I am about to burn them off with herbicide.
” Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?”Mt 7.16
” Every plant which my Father did not plant shall be uprooted”
Mt 15.13But we also need to realise that ther are different roles in the body.
1Cor 3.6
” I planted,Apollos watered but God causes the growth.”
Some establish foundations and others build up those who are rightly established and the roles are different in God. They may not always understand one another as Peter explained about Paul in his second letter. So they should not tear one another down surely? Just because the hand cannot see the ear does not make either wrong in their work does it?Nick,
I do not disagree at all. Speak the truth, just make sure it is in love. Some can handle strong meat, others will choke on it. The admonishment is not to cease to speak the truth, but rather to do all things by the Spirit, his leadership. We are not our own, and we are called to holiness and godliness in the fruit of the Spirit.
Keep speaking the truth! We are all on the race track (those in Christ), and it is a lifelong marathon, don't give up, don't turn back to the world. Don't let your walk be polluted with a spirit of religion! That has done more damage to the witness of Christ than can be imagined.
That is all I ask. Remeber, if you've done it to the least, you've done it to Christ. This is no small thing, we are to respect each other with the same honor we give Yeshua, after all, the Father has put “ALL THINGS” into His hands. He is our Head!
If someone affended your child and hurt them, what would you do? How much more precious are the Children of the Most High? How far will he go to repay?
Hi Rudy,
If your child was teasing the cat a little word of warning may avoid strife. But if he ran in front of a bus we would both roughly snatch our child out of danger. Both are love.
Sometimes a little balm eases a wound but sometimes, if it is serious, it is kinder to cut off the limb.
Jas 5.19
” My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins”It is often the Word and the Spirit itself, rather than the speaker, that causes the hurt for our good;
Heb 4. 12
” For the word of God is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart”
Jn 16.8
” ” and He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgement”How do you discern if he is running in front of a bus?
This dissertation is to the lost:
Jas. 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. 4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you. 7 Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it until it receives the early and the late rain.
This dissertation is to the saved:
8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Do not grumble, brethren, against one another, that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the doors. 10 As an example of suffering and patience, brethren, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 Behold, we call those happy who were steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful. 12 But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no be no, that you may not fall under condemnation. 13 Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. 17 Eli'jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.
This dissertation is to them that turn back the saved from sin (walking in darkness, lust of the flesh, pride of life, lust of the eyes):
19 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
1 John 1:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 7 Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God; for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because he first loved us. 20 If any one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also.
I don't know one trinitarian or modaslism believer that disagrees with this. They believe unto salvation and the earnest of the Spirit. God bearing witness by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. So to say they have a different Christ is NOT the truth.
To deny that Yeshua is the Savior, Son of God, is anti-christ. To say He was just a prophet IS anti-christ.
God was in Christ reconcilling the world to himself. It is not difficult for imperfect man to get confused on the subject. So we all walk by faith. I don't have all the answers, neither do you. But we get the main one right. Without the Blood of Christ, and his ressurrection, man is dead in his sin. We believe that Christ is the son of God.
Is Christ God, is Christ equal to God, are God and Christ one? We all can pull plenty of scripture to prove our point of view.
This is the power of God unto salvation:
1 Corinthians 1:18 – For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Galatians 3:26 – For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Hi Rudy,
I do not expect to convince you about the true path of salvation. We may have to agree to disagree on this matter.
But for others who hear your message and may also believe faith and confession is enough to satisfy the God we fear;
James 2.19
” You believe that God is one. You do well;the demons also believe, and shudder”Quote (Rudy @ April 19 2005,22:26) How do you discern if he is running in front of a bus? This dissertation is to the lost:
Jas. 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. 4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you. 7 Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it until it receives the early and the late rain.
This dissertation is to the saved:
8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Do not grumble, brethren, against one another, that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the doors. 10 As an example of suffering and patience, brethren, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 Behold, we call those happy who were steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful. 12 But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no be no, that you may not fall under condemnation. 13 Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. 17 Eli'jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.
This dissertation is to them that turn back the saved from sin (walking in darkness, lust of the flesh, pride of life, lust of the eyes):
19 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
1 John 1:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 7 Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God; for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because he first loved us. 20 If any one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also.
I don't know one trinitarian or modaslism believer that disagrees with this. They believe unto salvation and the earnest of the Spirit. God bearing witness by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. So to say they have a different Christ is NOT the truth.
To deny that Yeshua is the Savior, Son of God, is anti-christ. To say He was just a prophet IS anti-christ.
God was in Christ reconcilling the world to himself. It is not difficult for imperfect man to get confused on the subject. So we all walk by faith. I don't have all the answers, neither do you. But we get the main one right. Without the Blood of Christ, and his ressurrection, man is dead in his sin. We believe that Christ is the son of God.
Is Christ God, is Christ equal to God, are God and Christ one? We all can pull plenty of scripture to prove our point of view.
This is the power of God unto salvation:
1 Corinthians 1:18 – For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Galatians 3:26 – For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Hi Rudy,
How do you discern danger in spiritual matters? Surely with the gift of spiritual vision, the gift of discernment given through the Spirit.1Cor 12.10 “..and to another the distinguishing of spirits, ..”
But this is only given to those who obey and are born again as Jesus said in Jn 3.3
“… unless one is born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God”“Wisdom is vindicated by her deeds”Mt 11.19
This is the spirit of antichrist:
Love of the world, pre-salvation life…
1 John 2:15 – Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Luke 16:13 – No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Romans 8:7 – Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
James 4:4 – Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
And this is eternal life:
Matthew 16:25 – For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Luke 10:27 – And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 15:10 – Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
John 17:3 – And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Romans 14:17 – For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Quote (Rudy @ April 19 2005,19:58) Hi Cubes, I agree, however the implication is that “unless you abondon the trinity doctrine your goin' to hell”
Apollos was instructed more acurately, not told he wasn't saved and was therefore following “another Jesus”.
We need to keep these discussions real. Understand the heart of the Lord, putting on Christ is mercy, not condemnation. It is calling those who will, although most won't.
Apollos did not change the image of God.One
vs.
Three in One
It is not the same thing.
It has less to do with being a new convert or weak in faith. It's an outright different concept of God.
And that is what I try to speak about, not so much about condemning others.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
