The 24 Elders of Revelation

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,17:39)

Hi WU, Those who are last will be first. There is no contingent of men in heaven.

Nick.

Those that are first are the jews as a whole.
God was teaching them first.
They are the non christian believers.
There are also christian jews. believers.

All believers will be the first resurrected.
All jews *chosen* by God,will be *revived* in the flesh,
and settled in paradise.

The resurrected saints will be their priests, teachers, and kings.
Those jews will be resurrected/changed after the 1000years.
They will be last.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
The roles appointed in the kingdom are kings and priests.[rev 20.4-5]
No sign of a teaching role

[Proclaimer]

This is one view of who the 24 elders are:

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
The role of priests is unto God not man.

[NickHassan]

H,
My thoughts-repeated

So the elders are knowledgeable, approachable, reverent beings of some glory who dwell in heaven close to the throne of God.
Are they human? It does not say but seems unlikely as they would be identified surely.
If they were the apostles and the leaders of the twelve tribes John would have been seeing himself.
Are they angels? Unlikely as Rev 7 distinguishes them from ordinary angels.

My take is that they are the ones otherwise notably missing from Revelation-the archangels, the mighty and glorious sons of God.

2Peter 2
“10and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,

11whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. “

[Wakeup]

Mat.19:28. And Jesus said unto them,verily I say unto you,that ye which have followed me,**in this generation** when the son of man shall sit in his throne of his glory,

YE *ALSO* SHALL SIT UPON 12 THRONES,JUDGING THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL.
***ALSO? MEANING THERE WILL BE OTHERS ALSO***
TWELVE OTHERS.

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us ***kings and priests** unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God ***kings and priests***: and we shall reign on the earth.

THE ELDERS HAVE CROWNS,KINGS HAVE CROWNS.

Revelation 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast **their crowns** before the throne, saying.

ANGELS ARE NOT GIVEN ANY CROWNS.
ANGELS ARE NOT TO RULE.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but *THEY SHALL BE PRIESTS* of God and of Christ, and *SHALL REIGN* with him a thousand years.

KINGS DO REIGN,AND HAVE CROWNS.

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on *their seats*, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

ELDERS SITTING ON SEATS;NOT THRONES,BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT YET RULING UNTILL THE KINGDOM HAS COME.
BUT ALREADY APPOINTED AS KINGS.

Angels are not given to reign,but men.
John must have pictured himself in one of those thrones.
With the rest of the elders.
He was not shown their identity,just twenty four of them sitting with crowns on their heads.
John must have died shortly after revelation.

HERE ARE A LISTS OF THE JEWISH HIERARCHY, CALLED *ELDERS*. ELDERS ARE NOT ANGELS.

Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the *elders*? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the *elders* and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matthew 21:23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the *elders* of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

Matthew 26:3 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the *elders* of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,

Matthew 26:47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and *elders* of the people.

Matthew 26:57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the* elders* were assembled.

Matthew 26:59 Now the chief priests, and *elders*, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Matthew 27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and *elders* of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and *elders*,

Matthew 27:12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and *elders*, he answered nothing.

Matthew 27:20 But the chief priests and *elders* persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

Matthew 27:41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and *elders*, said,

Matthew 28:12 And when they were assembled with the *elders*, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,

Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the *elders*.

Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the *elders*, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the *elders*, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mark 11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the *elders*,

Mark 14:43 And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the *elders*.

Mark 14:53 And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the *elders* and the scribes.

Mark 15:1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the *elders* and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.

Luke 7:3 And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the *elders* of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.

Luke 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the *elders* and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Luke 20:1 And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the *elders*,

Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the *elders*, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?

Luke 22:66 And as soon as it was day, the *elders* of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,

Acts 4:5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and *elders*, and scribes,

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and *elders* of Israel,

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and *elders* had said unto them.

Acts 6:12 And they stirred up the people, and the *elders*, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,

Acts 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the *elders* by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them *elders* in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Acts 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and *elders* about this question.

Acts 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and *elders*, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

Acts 15:6 And the apostles and *elders* came together for to consider of this matter.

Acts 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and *elders*, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and *elders* and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Acts 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and *elders* which were at Jerusalem.

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the *elders* of the church.

Acts 21:18
And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the *elders* were present.

Acts 22:5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the *elders*: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Acts 23:14 And they came to the chief priests and *elders*, and said, We have bound ourselves under a great curse, that we will eat nothing until we have slain Paul.

Acts 24:1 And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the *elders*, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul.

Acts 25:15 About whom, when I was at Jerusalem, the chief priests and the *elders* of the Jews informed me, desiring to have judgment against him.

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the *elders* that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain *elders* in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Hebrews 11:2 For by it the *elders* obtained a good report.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the *elders* of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an *elder,* and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty *elders* sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 4:10 The four and twenty *elders* fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Revelation 5:5 And one of the *elders* saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the *elders*, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty *elders* fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the *elders*: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Revelation 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty *elders* fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the *elders* and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 7:13 And one of the *elders* answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty *elders*, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the *elders*: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty *elders* and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
Indeed elders can refer to saved men.
Saved men will judge angels and will reign ON EARTH
There are not 24 kings and priests
1 peter 2.9, 2 tim 2.11f applies to all in Christ

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,19:44)

Hi WU, The roles appointed in the kingdom are kings and priests.[rev 20.4-5] No sign of a teaching role

Nick.

As far as I know;priests do teach.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,07:53)

H, My thoughts-repeated So the elders are knowledgeable, approachable, reverent beings of some glory who dwell in heaven close to the throne of God. Are they human? It does not say but seems unlikely as they would be identified surely. If they were the apostles and the leaders of the twelve tribes John would have been seeing himself. Are they angels? Unlikely as Rev 7 distinguishes them from ordinary angels. My take is that they are the ones otherwise notably missing from Revelation-the archangels, the mighty and glorious sons of God. 2Peter 2 “10and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties, 11whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. “

Nick.

Humans do the teachings today,lead by the HS.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
The priests of the OT served God in the temple
That is the way of God's priests

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,09:38)

Hi WU, Indeed elders can refer to saved men. Saved men will judge angels and will reign ON EARTH There are not 24 kings and priests 1 peter 2.9, 2 tim 2.11f applies to all in Christ

Nick.

The resurrected saints will have a job to do in the kingdom.
Teaching the jews and the gentiles outside.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 16 2014,20:21)

This is one view of who the 24 elders are:

Jesus is not God,but God's Word.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 17 2014,10:05)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,09:38) Hi WU, Indeed elders can refer to saved men. Saved men will judge angels and will reign ON EARTH There are not 24 kings and priests 1 peter 2.9, 2 tim 2.11f applies to all in Christ Nick. The resurrected saints will have a job to do in the kingdom. Teaching the jews and the gentiles outside. wakeup.

Hi WU,
Yes that is a popular idea
But from man's imagination it seems

[journey42]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,06:41)

Hi WU, The role of priests is unto God not man.

Nick

A priest teaches man things of God,
if there is no men to teach, what's the point of having a priest?
but after the return of Christ, and the kingdom set up,
there will be survivors living outside the kingdom.
They must be taught.

The kingdom will have order.
1. Christ ruling.
2. The 24 elders (kings)
3. The 144,000  (priests)
4. The rest of the resurrected saints. (messengers maybe, helpers? judges, counsellors?)

Isaiah 1:26   And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

[NickHassan]

Hi J42,
Can you show from scripture what the roles of the OT priests was?
Where did they teach?

Kings and priests are not laid out in scripture as you have – from you?

[Wakeup]

Deuteronomy 24:8 Take heed in the plague of leprosy, that thou observe diligently, and do according to all that the
***priests the Levites shall teach you***:
as I commanded them, so ye shall observe to do.

wakeup.

[journey42]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,12:21)

Hi J42, Can you show from scripture what the roles of the OT priests was? Where did they teach? Kings and priests are not laid out in scripture as you have – from you?

Nick

Exodus 19:6   And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 19:22   And let the priests also, which come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.

Leviticus 6:29   All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.

No, it is not laid out for us, but there is order.
We know there are going to be kings and priests.
Kings are much higher in rank than priests.
Kings have domains, (not everyone can be a king, but the 24 elders are special, you cannot deny this)
and those in charge under them, (the 144,000 are specially chosen, and you cannot deny this) they will be the priests because they followed the lamb wheresoever he goes.  They have the truth, so qualified to preach the truth.
the rest of the saints are special also, but not higher in rank as the above.
Not all saints were holding the true doctrine, but they had their robes washed white because of faith, sacrifice and God's mercy, but not according to knowledge.
These cannot be priests, as they have to be re-taught also.

[NickHassan]

Hi J42,
Yes their role was to minister to God.
The first verse was to Moses who indeed led the people as well.

[NickHassan]

Hi J42,
I cannot deny what is written.
But your speculations come from the minds of men.

[NickHassan]

Hi j42,
Priests relate to God and kings dispense God's justice to men.
Who is to say which is higher?

God will teach

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