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Hi ,
Rev 4
” 4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. “Rev 5
” 5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints?
Rev 7
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Revelation 7:13
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Revelation 11:16
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Revelation 19:4
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.So the elders are knowledgeable, approachable, reverent beings of some glory who dwell in heaven close to the throne of God.
Are they human? It does not say but seems unlikely as they would be identified surely.
If they were the apostles and the leaders of the twelve tribes John would have been seeing himself.
Are they angels? Unlikely as Rev 7 distinguishes them from ordinary angels.My take is that they are the ones otherwise notably missing from Revelation-the archangels, the mighty and glorious sons of God.
2Peter 2
“10and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,11whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. “
Hi Nick,
I don't know for sure who they are. They may not even be human, as you speculate.
But my guess is that (if human), they either comprise of those righteous ones from Adam I – Isaac who were technically not Israel/JEWISH,
though there is no indication that these added up to twenty-four.Or they may be a combination of righteous Jewish patriachs, princes, prophets patterned after the twelve Jewish Tribes and twelve apostles. This way, John the Baptist may fit in where someone else like “Dan” might not, in as much as Dan was left out of the Rev 7 list and Joseph had a double portion as promised him (Joseph and Manasseh).
As to why John might not have seen himself, a possible answer could also be that in character, he referred to himself both in the first and third person (the disciple whom Jesus loved).
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Jhn 20:4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
Hi Cubes,
Remember that the elders spoke to John so it was not just a vision and he would not have spoken to himself.Hi
I think I would agree with Cubes. I think they are the ones that walked with God whilst on Earth. Adam, Enoch etc… meaning those that were on earth before Jesus came.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.I dont think this is the 24 Elders. They are the 144,000
Hugs
PhoenixQuote As to why John might not have seen himself, a possible answer could also be that in character, he referred to himself both in the first and third person (the disciple whom Jesus loved). Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Jhn 20:4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
I definitely would have to agree with that. Thanks for pointing that out Cubes
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Mar. 08 2007,20:37) Hi I think I would agree with Cubes. I think they are the ones that walked with God whilst on Earth. Adam, Enoch etc… meaning those that were on earth before Jesus came.
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi P,
Why 24?
Why only 24?
Why does it not say men?
Why could John not identify them as individual men as he had done when Jesus was transfigured?
What right do men have to be in heaven?The Son of man said he was the only one who had been there.
Hi Nick
To be honest I am not sure. In my bible at the back I have a list of 100 names we should know. Out of that list I took out the names that were women and those that did evil in Gods eyes ( i assume).
I got down to 33. I am guessing there are 13 Prophets in the whole bible but 7 of those are not in the list. I dont know why.
Anyway out of that 33, there were some I wasnt to sure of, ie: Abel?, Lot?. I am not sure who would be deleted out to make up the 24 Elders.
My guess though.
Hugs
PhoenixOh I forgot to say that I also took out those that weren't in the OT. These are the ones that I had a question mark next too…
Nehemiah
Melchizedek
Lot
Esau
Cyrus
AbelHi P,
God approved many you find fault with and it adds up to many more than 24. What of the other questions?Hi Nick
Well they weren't defined as anything but elders. So, if they're not Angels nor Men nor Beasts (because there were 4 beasts above Gods throne) then what are we left with? lol Aliens? Spirits?
Hugs
PhoenixOh just a quick thought came to mind about the Beasts..
We have the …
Lion – Lord of all the Wild animals
Ox – Lord of all the Domestic animals
Eagle – Lord of all the Flying animals
Man – Lord of all the HumansThen where is the Lord of all the Sea Animals??
Hi:
“And when He had taken the book (Jesus had taken the book), the four living creatures and the twenty four elders (these are elders, the authority in the church under the head of the church which of course is Jesus) fell down before the Lamb having each one a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang an new song, saying, worthy art thou to take the book, and to break its seals; for thou was slain, and didst purchase for God with thy blood men form every tribe and tongue and people and nation. And thou hast made us (some translate “them” and one word can change the whole meaning, but I believe us is better because it includes the elders) unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on earth”. (Rev. 5:10)
I don't believe that we can speculate as to the identy of the elders but by the fact that they are elders and that the word says that they will reign on earth, I believe that we can say they are the authority in the church under Jesus who rules from heaven through them.
God Bless
Hi P,
Where are the archangels, the princes, the sons of God shown in Revelation? Could they be the elders?Hi Nick
Well the archangels have their own realm so I thought. The Sons of God are Men so I thought. The princes… I dont have a clue lol
Hugs
PhoenixQuote Well they weren't defined as anything but elders. So, if they're not Angels nor Men nor Beasts (because there were 4 beasts above Gods throne) then what are we left with? lol Aliens? Spirits? So, it seems you're presently studying the book of Revelation.
I know you probably won't at first believe what I say, but being that your present theories involve Aliens, etc, here goes:
The 24 elders are the 144,000 in their glorious heavenly position.
They picture the same anointed group from a different standpoint—as already raised and installed as kings and priests.“Multiples of 12 are also sometimes significant. David established 24 divisions of the priesthood to serve by turn in the temple later built by Solomon. (1Ch 24:1-18) This assists in identifying the “twenty-four elders” who were seated round about God’s throne in white outer garments and who were wearing crowns. (Re 4:4) The footstep followers of Jesus Christ, his spiritual brothers, are promised kingship and priesthood with him in the heavens. These elders could not be only the apostles, who numbered just 12. They therefore evidently represent the entire body of the “royal priesthood,” the 144,000 (as represented in the 24 priestly divisions serving at the temple) in their positions in the heavens, as crowned kings and priests.—1Pe 2:9; Re 7:4-8; 20:6.”–Insight Volume 2, page 513
“Who are the “twenty-four elders” on heavenly thrones?
In the book of Revelation, the term pre·sby′te·roi occurs 12 times and is applied to spirit creatures. Their surroundings, dress, and actions give a clue as to their identity.
The apostle John had a vision of Jehovah’s throne in heaven, surrounded by 24 lesser thrones upon which were seated 24 elders dressed in white outer garments and having golden crowns upon their heads. (Re 4:1-4) As the vision continued, John saw the 24 elders not only repeatedly falling down in worship before Jehovah’s throne but also taking part in the various features of the vision as it progressed. (Re 4:9-11; 5:4-14; 7:9-17; 14:3; 19:4) Especially were they observed joining in the Kingdom proclamation to the effect that Jehovah had taken up his great power and had begun to rule as king.—Re 11:15-18.
In ancient Israel, “older men [elders] of Israel” represented and spoke for the entire nation. (Ex 3:16; 19:7) In the same way “elders” may stand for, or represent, the entire congregation of spiritual Israel. Therefore, the 24 elders seated on thrones about God might well represent the entire body of anointed Christians who, proving faithful till death, receive the promised reward of a heavenly resurrection and thrones near that of Jehovah. (Re 3:21) The number 24 is also significant, for this was the number of the divisions into which King David organized the priests to serve at Jerusalem’s temple. The anointed Christians are to be “a royal priesthood.”—1Pe 2:9; 1Ch 24:1-19; Lu 1:5-23, 57-66; Re 20:6″–page 551
“And round about the throne there are twenty-four thrones, and upon these thrones I saw seated twenty-four elders dressed in white outer garments, and upon their heads golden crowns.” (Revelation 4:4)
They are wearing crowns. The Bible speaks of anointed Christians as gaining ‘an incorruptible crown’ and attaining to an endless life—immortality. (1 Corinthians 9:25; 15:53, 54) But since these 24 elders are sitting on thrones, the golden crowns in this context represent royal authority. (Compare Revelation 6:2; 14:14.) This supports the conclusion that the 24 elders portray Jesus’ anointed footstep followers in their heavenly position, for Jesus made a covenant with them to sit on thrones in his Kingdom. (Luke 22:28-30) Only Jesus and these 24 elders—not even the angels—are described as ruling in heaven in Jehovah’s presence.
This harmonizes with the promise that Jesus made to the Laodicean congregation: “To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne.” (Revelation 3:21) But the heavenly assignment of the 24 elders is not limited to governmental rule. In the introduction to the book of Revelation, John said of Jesus: “He made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father.” (Revelation 1:5, 6) These ones are both kings and priests.
. “They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”—Revelation 20:6.
11 What is significant about the number 24, in that John sees 24 elders around the throne? In many respects, these were foreshadowed by the faithful priests of ancient Israel. The apostle Peter wrote to anointed Christians: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.’” (1 Peter 2:9) Interestingly, that ancient Jewish priesthood came to be divided into 24 divisions. Each division was assigned its own weeks in the year to serve before Jehovah, so that sacred service was rendered without a break. (1 Chronicles 24:5-19) It is fitting, then, that there are 24 elders depicted in John’s vision of the heavenly priesthood because this priesthood serves Jehovah continually, without ceasing. When completed, there will be 24 divisions, each with 6,000 conquerors, for Revelation 14:1-4 tells us that 144,000 (24 x 6,000) are “bought from among mankind” to stand on the heavenly Mount Zion with the Lamb, Jesus Christ. Since the number 12 signifies a divinely balanced organization, 24 doubles—or strengthens—such an arrangement.“And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense, and the incense means the prayers of the holy ones.” (Revelation 5:8)
Like the four cherubic living creatures before God’s throne, the 24 elders bow to Jesus in acknowledgment of his authority. But these elders are alone in having harps and bowls of incense. And they alone now sing a new song. (Revelation 5:9)
Thus they resemble the 144,000 of the holy “Israel of God,” who also carry harps and sing a new song. (Galatians 6:16; Colossians 1:12; Revelation 7:3-8; 14:1-4)Quote kings and priests and we shall reign on earth”. (Rev. 5:10)
I don't believe that we can speculate as to the identy of the elders but by the fact that they are elders and that the word says that they will reign on earth,
There are Bibles that have “over” where this Bible has “on” earth. I believe that the rest of the Bible indicates that this should be translated “over.” I believe they will reign in heaven with christ and they will rule “over” the earth. Most Bibles do say “on,” but there are those that say “over.”Hi David
Quote Quote
Well they weren't defined as anything but elders. So, if they're not Angels nor Men nor Beasts (because there were 4 beasts above Gods throne) then what are we left with? lol Aliens? Spirits?So, it seems you're presently studying the book of Revelation.
I know you probably won't at first believe what I say, but being that your present theories involve Aliens, etc, here goes:
I was being cheeky. And yep youre right I dont believe you right now. But who knows… i might see it different tomorrow morning.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Mar. 09 2007,07:32) Hi Nick Well the archangels have their own realm so I thought. The Sons of God are Men so I thought. The princes… I dont have a clue lol
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi P,
Michael is described both as a prince[dan] and an archangel and it seems the princes or archangels are also the sons of Gen 6 and Jb 1-2, 38. They meet with God in Job so I do not know about their own realm you speak of.Hello everyone, this will be my first post here;
The KJV has an unfortunate translation error that causes the 24 elders song to be in the first person:
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.This is not correct, it should read, as here (ASV):
Rev 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
Rev 5:10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth.So, in reality (seemingly), the do not include themselves among the redeemed from the earth. They are NOT men. What they are is a mystery.
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